ENGINE WENT BANG : (

Post by **Shorty40** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:58 pm

My rig went BANG yesterday. :shock:

Out wheeling and the rig was driving fine all day.

Went to attack some steps, got the front wheels up the 1st ledge and the she let out a massive backfire. And promptly died

Rolled back and tried to restart. Kicking over but backfiring (badly).

Tried to clutch it by dragging it behind a mates rig - all it did was backfires heaps (and LOUD :twisted:

)

What do you reckon I have farked :?:

Oh, and which is No 1 cylinder in a Holden 253 V8 ?

Cheers

Dan

Post by **bogged** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:01 pm

remove sparkplugs look for shiat on them like metal, or shit loads of oil..

then do compression test on it.
then panic.

but fluffys arent worth shit, so another one wouldnt be too bad.

Post by **80UTE** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:57 am

Check to see if the dizzy rotor is turning as ive seen these break as a result of a back fire and if it fails can cause a back fire. If its back fired the chance of serious engine damage would be minimal.

:cool:

Wally

Post by **mkpatrol** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:47 pm

Cylinders are numbered on the inlet manifold unless it has been replaced. Even numbers are numbered down one side and odd numbers are down the other. When looking at the engine one bank of cylinders will be positioned slightly in front of the other. The cylinder at the front of that is number one. Firing order should be on the manifold as well.
To check the direction if the dissy have someone crank the engine for you (make sure you disable the ignition system first), if second person is not availiable then grab the rotor button. It will turn one direction but not another, the direction in which it turns is the direction the whole distributor spins when the engine is running.
Turn the engine over until it is on top dead centre of number one cylinder (firing top dead centre that is not the exhaust top dead centre) & then see if the pointy end of the rotor is lined up with number one lead. If it does not line up then you have a mechanical problem either in the dissy or at the camshaft. Holden motors are renound for stripping dissy gears and camgears. If any of the ignition parts are damaged replace them.
If evary thing checks out in the dissy then rip the plugs out & do a compression test. Holden V8's can blow the head gasket between the cylinders causing the backfire (compression leaking from one cylinder to another). Just beacause its not using or mixing the oil & water doesnt mean its not blown.
Check this first, as this should give you an indication of whats wrong.
One question, is it on gas?

Post by **Shorty40** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:47 pm

Thanks for the tips guys :cool:

mkpatrol - it has an edelbrock manifold - so no numbers :cry:

But I will check for the 'forward' cylinder.

No, she's not on gas.

Tonight's mission.

Check rotor actually turns

Check rotor lines up with cylinder 1 (while at TDC). Is this while the tuning mark is on 0 dgrees on the crank ?

If these check out - I will pull the dizzy and check the gear to see if it has been stripped.

After that ................. :oops:

I'm not sure how to check the crank or timing gears

But it is a start. Thanks again

Dan

Post by **GRIMACE** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:50 pm

Time for a cheap 308 red motor :cool:

Post by **mkpatrol** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:52 pm

I will bring Firing order and cylunder configuration in tomorrow. I used to know it off by heart but I have been out of the trade for a while. If the rotor lines up to number one when the cylinder is at fiting TDC then the timing gears and cam are ok.
Check compression after dissy.

Post by **Shorty40** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:02 pm

Champion

Post by **dumbdunce** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:26 pm

yeah sounds like a timing problem but if it turns over ok might just be that the distributor has broken. but yeah 253's are cheap as chips, just accept it's dead and get yourself a 308

cheers

Brian

Post by **RUFF** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:06 pm

No one Cylinder is on the Drivers side at the front.

Firing order is 12784563

Its either jumped the timing chain or it is possible that the dizy hit the fierwall again and its moved it? Could have a broken engine mount thats caused this also?

Rarely a backfire will cause terminal damage.

Post by **Shorty40** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:17 pm

I actually cut a hole in the firewall to accomodate the dizzy but ......................

if an engine mount is broken ..........................

mmmmmmmmmm

BTW Tony, thanks for the firing order :cool:

Post by **OVERKILL ENG** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:48 pm

Make sure the rotor button spins eavenly as they can strip the drive gear

Post by **dumbdunce** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:59 pm

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:Make sure the rotor button spins ...

you mean the rotor, right? the rotor button just sits in the top of the distributor cap rubbing on the centre of the rotor. the bit that spins is the rotor. thats why it's called a rotor.

start with the anal jokes now.

Post by **ORSM45** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:32 pm

dumbdunce wrote:
OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:Make sure the rotor button spins ...

you mean the rotor, right? the rotor button just sits in the top of the distributor cap rubbing on the centre of the rotor. the bit that spins is the rotor. thats why it's called a rotor.

start with the anal jokes now.

elton john says to gearge michael. youve been cheating on me, havent you george? george says what do you mean. elton replys 'you came home last night all shitfaced.'

and end with that anal joke.

dan, if it does look bad, you can only make things better with a 308

RUFF, i thought No. 1 was on the passenger side (like a chev)

Post by **ZOOK60** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:36 pm

there was an injection set up for a 308 for $350 in the trading post
that is if you have still got cash left over after fixing the motor

Post by **RUFF** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:37 pm

383FJ45 wrote:
RUFF, i thought No. 1 was on the passenger side (like a chev)

Hmmm i could be wrong but i dont think i am. The reason a Chev engine has the passenger head forward is for steering box clearance in the US as this is where it was designed. The holden engine im fairly certain has the drivers side head forward for steering box clearance in Aus.

Post by **ORSM45** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:01 pm

you are probably right. i just assumed that holdens were the same and never thought much about it.

even tho the cylinder numbers are called different things, the firing sequence of the cylinders are the same as a chev.

Post by **RUFF** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:14 pm

383FJ45 wrote:you are probably right. i just assumed that holdens were the same and never thought much about it.

even tho the cylinder numbers are called different things, the firing sequence of the cylinders are the same as a chev.

Isnt there 2 different firing orders on Chev Small blocks? I know there is on Windsors but i thought there was on a chev also?

Post by **CRUSHU** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:40 pm

drivers side front (right hand) is the no 1 on holden and ford. i also reacon check the rotor button hasnt stripped the locator out of the centre (on tha shaft)

Post by **ORSM45** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:41 pm

yup. new LS1's have 2 cylinders different: old firing order 18736542, new firing order 18436572

Post by **Shorty40** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:27 pm

jake lawson wrote:there was an injection set up for a 308 for $350 in the trading post
that is if you have still got cash left over after fixing the motor

Any more details ?

Post by **Shorty40** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:30 pm

Thanks for the tips guys, I will check it all out tomorrow.

I have also had dramas with the GQ, and that being the daily driver it gets attention first :roll:

Post by **Nev62** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Shorty40 wrote:Thanks for the tips guys, I will check it all out tomorrow.

I have also had dramas with the GQ, and that being the daily driver it gets attention first

So did you find the problem? I had same sort of thing once, timing chain sliped a couple of teeth. This through evey thing out resulting in buggered valves and piston crowns (pistons go up and valves tried to open at the same time).

Also know of someone who thought they could tune their car to make it go harder. Got the timing wrong and good-by donk (values and pistons stuffed plus bent conrods).

Post by **mattyd** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:42 pm

On my 253 in my 4Runner (may it rest in peace), I went through every possible option I and mates could think of. New spark plugs, compression testing, complete timing, chasing the leads back to each cylinder to make sure they were on right, etc etc... and it turned out that the rotor button had jumped off the rotor and was pushed back down by a mate in the wrong position.

So the rotor was removed, the bottom flattened with a hack-saw, and pushed back on in the correct position and it worked a charm! Never heard it sound better!

Matty

Post by **Shorty40** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:29 pm

Well, sometimes you have all the luck :cool:

Turns out the key drive in the rotor was snapped and the rotor was free spinning :roll:

And the rotor button was/is snapped off or worn away completely

End result : new rotor and cap ----> and thats the 40 sorted :armsup:

She is a tough old bird :cool:

Thanks to all those that provided advice and encouragement during these tough times for me and my 40 :lol:

Post by **CRUSHU** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:47 pm

that happened in my brothers blown vn group a at summernats, the wrong timing then caused the exhaust to glow, and set fire to the clutch cable

Post by **Shorty40** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:52 am

Well that was the cheapest/easiest fix :cool:

$21

New dizzy cap and new rotor.

Now I am happy again - Mind you, after PUOSU I want a buggy :twisted:

(I just can't let my 40 hear that :roll:

)

Post by **stumped** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:26 pm

Shorty40 wrote:Well that was the cheapest/easiest fix

$21 New dizzy cap and new rotor.

Now I am happy again - Mind you, after PUOSU I want a buggy (I just can't let my 40 hear that )

awesome to hear dude! nice cheap fix :cool:

surely ur 40 won't mind if u build a buggy to keep her company?

Post by **Shorty40** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:19 pm

Well, engine went BANG again :roll:

Stripped the key drive out of 2 new rotors

But this time I have worked it out. Thanks to Tony :armsup:

Engine mounts were loose and even though I have modified the firewall to clear the base of the distributor the top of the cap was hitting the firewall. This caused the cap to shift enough that the rotor was striking the contacts in the cap and binding, which chewed out the key drive :oops:

Short term fix - more firewall clearance required - BRING AWWWWN THE GRINDER :twisted:

Long term fix - stop the engine flexing by replacing shagged engine mounts and installing a gearbox/transfer case cross member to provide additional support to drivetrain.

Post by **Old Yella** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:08 am

good to hear it was only a cheap fix Dan

so it looks like I wont be stealin your Swampers :cry:

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ENGINE WENT BANG : (

ENGINE WENT BANG : (

Re: ENGINE WENT BANG : (

maybe the rotor button has jumped off?

Who is online