feroza engine vs applause, please help..

[lde]

Hello all!

I am new here and should rather post my "official hello" as i became a great Feroza owner recently but i have to start my presence here asking you for a help with the engine.

Can somebody kindly help me in the following case:
My Feroza EL II, 1991 engine has broken:( I have to replace it with a new engine but here in Poland feroza is not quite popular car so it is a problem with getting new engine. However, i heard that engine HD-E from Daihatsu Applause is the same engine and will fit well. Is this true?

I have been google'ing today and found that it is similar but some numbers are tiny different. Maybe somebody of you had this problem and replaced your Feroza engine with the one from the Applause? I really appreciate your feedback.

I bought my dreamed feroza at the beginning of the month and i had a bad luck with this engine:( So i am a bit said and looking for a help.

* Here is feroza engine:
Manufacturer Daihatsu
Type S-4 SOHC
16 valves total, 4 valves per cylinder
Main bearings 5
Construction, Bore × stroke 76.00mm × 87.60mm 2.99 in × 3.45 in
Bore/Stroke ratio 0.87
Displacement 1589 cc (96.967 cu in)
Unitary capacity 397.25 cc/cylinder
Compression ratio 9.50:1
Max. output (DIN) 96.3 PS (95.0 bhp) (70.8 kW) @5700 rpm
Max. torque (DIN) 128.0 Nm (94 lbft) (13.1 kgm) @4800 rpm
Specific output 59.8 bhp/litre
0.98 bhp/cu in
Specific torque 80.55 Nm/litre


* and here is the Applause spec:
Type HD-E
Petrol, transverse, water-cooled,
in-line 4-cylinder, 4-cycle, 16-valve, SOHC
Displacement 1590 cc
Bore x stroke 76.0 mm x 87.6 mm
Max. output 73 kW/6000 rpm
Max. torque 138 Nm/3600 rpm
Compression ratio 10.5
Fuel system EFI

will this Applause engine fit & work in Feroza?
Thanks a lot for any help.

Lukas

[murcod]

G'day Lukas, welcome.

The Applause and Feroza engine are basically the same internally and interchangeable by swapping some of the ancillaries (eg. engine mounts, manifolds etc) off your Feroza engine and onto the Applause one.

The reason for the power difference is a different spec camshaft and distributor advance curve. A few people who have done the swap reckon leaving those items on gives a good result with more power.

If you do a search SimplyPV recently did the exact same swap because he couldn't find a Feroza engine. Croz has also done the same.

Goodluck.

[Croz]

Nah mate, I got a Feroza Engine from a Jap importer and dropped it in...

But I did look into the Applause engine (as there is one in the garage in mums car hehe! ) As I recall it was just a swap of the mounts, exhaust manifold and oil sump and pickup that was necesary.

The cams are different and there are some other differences I think... I am sure someone will fill you in on but its not a big drama.


P.S. Welcome to the bored...

[lde]

Thanks for your feedback.
Ehmm so it seems that the differences in power are not so important here, yes? Feroza is 95 horsepower whereas Applause is as i know shipped with 90 and 105 hp. So as i assume it's better for me to search for this better, 105 hp, yes?

Also, should i buy all these accessories and equipment together with Applause engine or you talked just about fitting all this stuff (oil sump etc) from old engine to the Applause one?

Well.. i am not the mechanic and engine expert

Thanks
Lukas

[Croz]

Just get any parts off your old motor that you need, as long as they arent rooted. Use new gaskets though.

The applause engine makmes more power but I think it makes less torque, doesnt really matter, theya re pretty much the same motor.

[murcod]

Lukas make sure you fit a new timing belt to the engine too.

If you wanted you could change over the camshaft and distributor as well as all the manifolds, sump and oil pick up etc. and then the new engine would be exactly the same power output as your old one.

[SimplyPV]

first of all... welcome to the board!

second of all... i personally dropped in an applause donk myself here in the states and found no drama. found it very straight forward and pretty simple to do. since it was my very first engine swap, it took me some time to do this but was able to do so. the easiest thing that i found to do was to just simply swap over the fly wheel, clutch plate, water pump (if the pully is a different size) oil stump, oil pan, oil pickup, engine mounts, and the thin sheet metal gaskets that go between the tranny and the engine. you can also swap over your starter, ac, intake mainifold, exhaust, and distrub. by doing this, i honestly noticed very very VERY marginal torque losses a bit more hq gain in the mid/upper ranges. will be able to increase torque by replacing my exhuast with hurricane extractors when i get them fitted in order to make up for the torque lost, and then quite a bit more.... my suggestion, if your not very mech. inclined, keep it as simple as possible! just do a swap swap, meaning all of the parts that i had mentioned above.... i wouldnt even mess with the timing, all you gotta do is take the old timing belt off, put a new one on (without moving EITHER PULLEY!!!!) and you dont even have to readjust anything.... like i said. keep it simple, and you'll have no problems. if you have problems, feel free to ask me, i'd be glad to help.

PV

[lde]

Thank a lot for this infos, i will be posting a questions for sure . SimplyPV, did you use the 105 horsepower engine from daihatsu applause?

I have an occassion to buy applause engine from 1992 car with a mileage about 74k miles (120.000 km). Do you think this mileage is good for this kind of engine?

thanks
Lukas

[lde]

and maybe one more thing: i wonder if perhaps swapping the engines doesn't affect the maximum speed? I am asking because i've heard that it's quite possible that due to the less torque the car may have problems with going over 100km/h (~65 miles/h)

Did you notice some differences when driving faster?

However, I assume it is not true since there is also a gearbox which regulates this..

Lukas

[murcod]

Can you get the service history of the engine at all? If it's had the oil changed regularly there's no reason why it won't be OK- otherwise you may just have to take the gamble.

Mine's done 177000km (with unknown service history before 160000km) and doesn't use much oil at all - about 100ml every 1000km. I do run a 5W50 oil too which wouldn't help.

[lde]

thanks. One thing: i've just seen that i don't have the "HD-E" engine but just "HD". and i am quite surprised. Does anyone of you have the "HD" engine in Feroza? I have 1991 feroza and unfortunately i don't know the car and engine history.

??
Lukas

[murcod]

AFAIK there are only two engines in the Feroza worldwide- the HD-E and HD-C.

HD-E is the EFI version

HD-C is not fuel injected and runs a carburetor.

So, if you've got EFI it's a HD-E.

[lde]

Yes i know that there were HD-E and HD-C. Therefore i am very surprised that on the right side of the engine, just before the engine serial numbers i've got "HD"

Could i ask you to kindly look-up at yours and give me some info if you have the same mark?

Maybe Daihatsu forgot to draw "-E"

Thanks a lot!
Lukas

[murcod]

There would be no "E" after the "HD" in the serial number because the block can be used for either a "C" or "E". It all depends what's bolted on afterwards as to what it ends up as.

[SimplyPV]

lukas..... yes i used the 105 hp applause donk.. really, i find no difference, if any at al. torque loss is very marginal... if at all.... and the hp gain is noticeable. i have no problems reaching speeds of 85 mph (daily driving speed on freeway). theres no difference at all to be honest with you... and 72,000 miles is a pretty good deal.. engines ideally should last to 165-300,000 miles, depending on how they are taken care of. a dude over in cali has his feroza over the 200,000 mile mark on an original engine and says its still running strong. lukas...... if you have access to the engine.... get it... by all means. goodl luck

PV

[haasa]

@ide

I hat the same problem when I bought my Feroza 4 month ago.
I did a complete engine rebuild which costs me about 350 Euro.

see pics here: http://www.uahhh.org/technik/haasa/feroza/maintext.htm

Best,
Haasa

[lde]

Hi all!

I have just made a mentioned swap of engine from the Applause.
It works perfectly and caused no big problems during the swapping. Engine mounts fitted this new engine, accessories were swapped too and...it works

It's running pretty the same, i think it's a bit more torque but maybe even more power. What's cool is that this engine is in a really nice condition (120k km) and very quiet (comparing to my previous one )

Anyway! Very big THANKS for all of you who helped me and provide me a feedback!

Cheers
Lukas

[SimplyPV]

lukas.... glad to hear that your engine swap went very smoothly.... hope you had fun as well... word of advice for ya... drive that sucker for around 2 weeks or so, then i would suggest getting back under the truck and tightening up all the nuts that holds the engine/tranny together.... i made that mistake and didnt bother to check the nuts after driving for a while... ended up losing 2 of them on the bottom and it caused hell for my engine/tranny since they were attempting to pull apart from eachother on the bottom, leaking fluid everywhere... havent had much problem since i fixed it this recent weekend.. but will see if i have any fluid leaks still.... if your rear end starts to shake a bit more than usual... check your tranny/engine asap! as soon as my engine/tranny were tightened up, i had this shake in the tail every time i hit high speeds and it went away after the tightening up.... runs real sweet now.

[lde]

thanks for the advice, i surely will check. but one nasty thing happened to me just today - the engine is overheating after driving 5-10 minutes. i wrote it here http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=323742#323742

will fight with this tomorrow...hope its nothing serious.