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What's invloved in putting a in V6 long wheel base zook
What's invloved in putting a in V6 long wheel base zook
I have a long wheel base zook ans would like to know what is invloved in putting a VP / VN V6 into my truck, anyone got any pointers
This will be a very very big job, and I am not sure that the end result will be worth it. In the end you will end up with a big 'ol cast iron motor in the front with lots of clearance and drivetrain issues and difficulty with traction. In addition, the handling etc of a sierra will be a bit hairy with that level of power and weight over the front axle.
IMHO there are better engine options that will give a more drivable result. Even Joey with the atmo SR20 engine had traction problems with two welded diffs and swampers.
Have you thought about a 3RZ hilux motor? 110kw, 240nm an easier fit, available 2wd 4 speed auto to mate to your sierra transfer or a strong 5 speed and hilux transfer gearing options.
IMHO there are better engine options that will give a more drivable result. Even Joey with the atmo SR20 engine had traction problems with two welded diffs and swampers.
Have you thought about a 3RZ hilux motor? 110kw, 240nm an easier fit, available 2wd 4 speed auto to mate to your sierra transfer or a strong 5 speed and hilux transfer gearing options.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Re: What's invloved in putting a in V6 long wheel base zook
Mudboy wrote:I have a long wheel base zook ans would like to know what is invloved in putting a VP / VN V6 into my truck, anyone got any pointers
There,s a few getting around My young bloke is looking for a donar car at the moment , He killed the 1,3 the other day , I,m sure he,ll put some pics up as he goes , probly not for a few weeks though,
Gwagensteve Wrote : and difficulty with traction
How did you arrive at this conclusion steve .
Larry.
Dozoor,
I am not referring to a loss of outright tractive force, I am referring to the difficulty of preventing wheelspin with that much motor in a sierra. ( and, in general, a spinning wheel develops less tractive force than a non spinning wheel.
I have seen a number of high powered sierras over the years and generally they loose alot of the low speed "feedback" at idle - ie. the motor just keeps on idling away and will not really respond to load due to changing terrain. As a result, they tend to break traction at low revs easier than smaller engined (less powerful) sierras, and the "common" response to this loss of traction is to apply more power. (which in most cases will not improve traction one little bit but does lead to a lot of "unintended consequences"
The most "sensitive" car I have driven in regard to crawling about @ idle or just off is Gregs 660. As it is off boost under about 3 grand, very large changes in throttle position have very limited effect on wheelspeed, so the car can be driven with great finesse and without breaking traction.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, Joey's SR20 car when manual was very difficult to get to idle over anything as small changes in throttle tended to result in wheelspin as once traction was broken it was very hard to regain. This is part oft he reasont hat joey has gone LWB, auto, with less gearing and a very effective traction bar - to try and generate traction and load engine up more and to make it more progressive
Many of these "more powerful" engines are designed for far more load than we are subjecting them to in lots of our applications.
An auto will help, but I am not entirely convinced that a stock converter will have the right "feel" to get the progression required to maintain traction.
Just my thoughts. I tend to think that a 1.6 16v efi motor (100hp) is plenty in a Zuk- the rest can be done with correct gearing.
Steve.
I am not referring to a loss of outright tractive force, I am referring to the difficulty of preventing wheelspin with that much motor in a sierra. ( and, in general, a spinning wheel develops less tractive force than a non spinning wheel.
I have seen a number of high powered sierras over the years and generally they loose alot of the low speed "feedback" at idle - ie. the motor just keeps on idling away and will not really respond to load due to changing terrain. As a result, they tend to break traction at low revs easier than smaller engined (less powerful) sierras, and the "common" response to this loss of traction is to apply more power. (which in most cases will not improve traction one little bit but does lead to a lot of "unintended consequences"
The most "sensitive" car I have driven in regard to crawling about @ idle or just off is Gregs 660. As it is off boost under about 3 grand, very large changes in throttle position have very limited effect on wheelspeed, so the car can be driven with great finesse and without breaking traction.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, Joey's SR20 car when manual was very difficult to get to idle over anything as small changes in throttle tended to result in wheelspin as once traction was broken it was very hard to regain. This is part oft he reasont hat joey has gone LWB, auto, with less gearing and a very effective traction bar - to try and generate traction and load engine up more and to make it more progressive
Many of these "more powerful" engines are designed for far more load than we are subjecting them to in lots of our applications.
An auto will help, but I am not entirely convinced that a stock converter will have the right "feel" to get the progression required to maintain traction.
Just my thoughts. I tend to think that a 1.6 16v efi motor (100hp) is plenty in a Zuk- the rest can be done with correct gearing.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Steve ,I don,t think there to savage off idle , the stock auto has a 3-1 first gear
the converter doubles that , even with stock gearing and some decent travel in the throttle setup , should still be quiet tractable ,
Of course you,ll need shares in the c/v factory, He,s is a longy ,shorty probly will be a handful especially going down stuff .
lets face it , I can buy four complete cars for what most people pay for there halfcut zingers ,you can get a water pump and a headgasket from
any place that remotely resembles an auto shop ,
As you say horses for courses ,
Ive got one in my rangie with about 8" of throttle travel
, Be honest Kicking myself for not doing it with my zook project , the 700 has a 0.70
overdrive I could run big numbers in the diffs and still have a decent top end ,
Larry
the converter doubles that , even with stock gearing and some decent travel in the throttle setup , should still be quiet tractable ,
Of course you,ll need shares in the c/v factory, He,s is a longy ,shorty probly will be a handful especially going down stuff .
lets face it , I can buy four complete cars for what most people pay for there halfcut zingers ,you can get a water pump and a headgasket from
any place that remotely resembles an auto shop ,
As you say horses for courses ,
Ive got one in my rangie with about 8" of throttle travel
, Be honest Kicking myself for not doing it with my zook project , the 700 has a 0.70
overdrive I could run big numbers in the diffs and still have a decent top end ,
Larry
I think the horses for courses thing is the key here. If the car running the commodore V6/T700r4 combo is a) a fair bit heavier than a zook (stock) has plenty of tyre (I'm guessing at least a 33 12.5) and quite possibly hilux/mq/something or other diffs, then the end result will be more than tractable with the commodore stuff in it. ( and quite possibly reliable too) The car, overall will be more like driving a hilux than a zuk though.
I think that most sierras running V6's are also running a lot heavier, wider and with a way bigger tyre than most Zuk based zuks.
I agree that the commodore motor/auto is cheaper than most other options, and has the most power/torque per $$$, and can be made to fit. However, I think that by the time an owner is looking at going to this route, they know what they want to build and why they want to build it, ( and this will not revolve around zuk parts) rather than bunging it in because there is one lying around and then fragging the rest of the car. I;m guessing not everyone has a hilux transfer and diffs lying around, or all the skills to mate them together for a reliable package.
As it stands for me, whilst the comodire V6 is possible, I reckon they are a better conversion for a hilux than a zook, especially when the cost of building a reliable driveline is added in.
PS with "sensible" tyres and stock zuk gearing, I still reckon that there will too much off idle torque in the V6 to load it up and the result will be wheelspin and lost traction. sure with big tyres and lockers etcec one could be made to work well.
I think that most sierras running V6's are also running a lot heavier, wider and with a way bigger tyre than most Zuk based zuks.
I agree that the commodore motor/auto is cheaper than most other options, and has the most power/torque per $$$, and can be made to fit. However, I think that by the time an owner is looking at going to this route, they know what they want to build and why they want to build it, ( and this will not revolve around zuk parts) rather than bunging it in because there is one lying around and then fragging the rest of the car. I;m guessing not everyone has a hilux transfer and diffs lying around, or all the skills to mate them together for a reliable package.
As it stands for me, whilst the comodire V6 is possible, I reckon they are a better conversion for a hilux than a zook, especially when the cost of building a reliable driveline is added in.
PS with "sensible" tyres and stock zuk gearing, I still reckon that there will too much off idle torque in the V6 to load it up and the result will be wheelspin and lost traction. sure with big tyres and lockers etcec one could be made to work well.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
This may be a bit off topic, but how does your rig go at the moment mudboy? I think I read in the members sticky that you have 33's spoa, 3"BL. Do you find it a bit tippy?
I assume most of your driving is mud (looking at your user name.) I think the V6 would be sweet for this type of driving.
Anyway back to topic has anyone acturally got info on how to install this motor?
I assume most of your driving is mud (looking at your user name.) I think the V6 would be sweet for this type of driving.
Anyway back to topic has anyone acturally got info on how to install this motor?
[quote="STD CONSUMER"]haha, i'm tellin you, my camp was hard to find on Saturday night!
then i shared my bed with 2 second tom... [/quote]
then i shared my bed with 2 second tom... [/quote]
if you want info about installing a commodore v6 into anything then you should check out v6 vonversions in moree it is run by a guy by the name of pat gardiner just do a search in google for v6 conversions in moree
R.I.P. Darryl "DAZZA" Mutch 02/08/1978 - 26/08/2012 aged 34 years ... You will be missed my little brother.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=39190&start=150
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=39190&start=150
I went for this option (v6 commy) and I love it. The power is only too much, when you want it to be. I agree that traction is important, and before I got my front locker, I had very little of it. But now that I have made every attempt to get the best traction out of it, ( and lets face it, you want lockers no matter what engine you have)it is fantastic. I can crawl up rockledges, and blast through mud. Steep hills are no worries anymore, cos you just slip the auto, and let it drive itself. You can set the throttle up to be super tight (responsive) but with that much power, you don't need to. Just ease the throttle, and off you go.
If you are considering this transplant, then you will need a reasonable budget. The cheapest way to go is to use the v6 and auto, with a marks adapter kit. Use a 75 series transfer, so you can take advantage of the offset drive. And you would wanna have hilux diffs or better.
fitting that driveline will cost you anything from $4k up! And make sure you aren't on a tight budget, cos mine blew WAY out of proportion, as anyone here who had done an egine conversion can tell you, there are alot of hidden costs!
Good luck with which ever engine you decide to fit.
If you are considering this transplant, then you will need a reasonable budget. The cheapest way to go is to use the v6 and auto, with a marks adapter kit. Use a 75 series transfer, so you can take advantage of the offset drive. And you would wanna have hilux diffs or better.
fitting that driveline will cost you anything from $4k up! And make sure you aren't on a tight budget, cos mine blew WAY out of proportion, as anyone here who had done an egine conversion can tell you, there are alot of hidden costs!
Good luck with which ever engine you decide to fit.
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