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To Volvo or Not To Volvo?
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
To Volvo or Not To Volvo?
Okay, I just had a chat to Rod McCormack about my plans (Vit EFI, gearbox, xcase + Sierra xcase + Volvo c303 axles) and he raised some good points against going that way. Mainly that they are overkill and are too heavy and wide to work with the Sierra. Anyway, now I'm unsure what is the best and cheapest way to go. He suggested Hilux axles for the Sierra or putting Volvos in a Cruiser (which was my original plan). He also told me to consider other engine options. Keep in mind I wanna go cheap! What am I gonna do? Decisions decisions!
Unfortunately, I rthink you are gonna get a lot of negative input because people like to push what they know, and no-one in this country knows about the volvo stuff... You have already sourced everything, so I would say go with it. Even in the worst case scenario, that it doesn't work on the zuk you have bought, you will still have the axles to use on a different rig & you can probably wreck the zuk to pay for the $1000 or whatever it cost you..
.
how about using complete hilux running gear, but instead of the vitara/2.4td go for a toyota petrol, perhaps one of the ones thet people were dicussing on snake, they had plenty of power/torque and apparently bolt up to a g-52 gearbox.
but you've got the axles + a zook so maybe u should try and get it to work.
if you decide to buy a 40/60 my dador sis will probably buy the zook of ya
mmm then ill hack it to pieces :wink: :wink:
but you've got the axles + a zook so maybe u should try and get it to work.
if you decide to buy a 40/60 my dador sis will probably buy the zook of ya
mmm then ill hack it to pieces :wink: :wink:Blair,
90 2.8D HILUX s/c
33" BFG m/t
90 2.8D HILUX s/c
33" BFG m/t
The more I think about it, the more I think sticking with my Sierra + Volvos plan will be good. It's true that the car is gonna be very light compared to the axles but at least I'm not gonna break anything. Where is the weak point in this plan? The gearbox? Xcase? Chassis? Engine?
I'm still trying to decide which engine to run. So far I've got:
1. Stock 1L
2. Vitara EFI 1.6L
3. Surf 2.4L TD
4. Commodore 3.8L
5. Isuzu 2.6L D
I'm still leaning towards the Vitara option because I think it'll be cheap, easy and sufficient. If I mate a modded Sierra xcase to the Vitara xcase, that'll get the offset to the right hand side, which should match the axles better than the centered rear output from the standard vitara xcase.
Then again, I could probably clean this Sierra up and just keep it as a DD. Get a Cruiser like I wanted. Hmm...
What I need is somebody to say, "Just do this ...!" I am the highly suggestible type.
CMAWWWN! I need ideas peoples!
I'm still trying to decide which engine to run. So far I've got:
1. Stock 1L
2. Vitara EFI 1.6L
3. Surf 2.4L TD
4. Commodore 3.8L
5. Isuzu 2.6L D
I'm still leaning towards the Vitara option because I think it'll be cheap, easy and sufficient. If I mate a modded Sierra xcase to the Vitara xcase, that'll get the offset to the right hand side, which should match the axles better than the centered rear output from the standard vitara xcase.
Then again, I could probably clean this Sierra up and just keep it as a DD. Get a Cruiser like I wanted. Hmm...
What I need is somebody to say, "Just do this ...!" I am the highly suggestible type.
CMAWWWN! I need ideas peoples!
you are going to go through a bit of trial and error. If I was in your shoes I would first worry about getting suspension sorted and getting the axles under there with the tyres on them that you want & get everything clearing & get your wheelbase where you want it. No point spending money on engine/trans if you can't get this stuff to work. If you can get it driving with the axles/tyres/suspension done & the engine/trans that are altready in it you'll know straight away if you want to keep going with it..
Just my thoughts.....
Just my thoughts.....
Nam.
Sorry to be a party pooper. But reading your posts you memtion that you are looking to keep things as cost effective (cheap) as you can. It's non of my business, but if you need to be that concerned with the $$ I would recommend that you realy think about what you want in the end. I know that with my truck I have spent at least twice what I thought I would. It is all the stupid little things that you don't expect to cost much that chew through the $$.
Don't get me wrong, no matter how you go it will be a great project, but in my opinion you will need many $1000's to get it all running, and would not be at all surised that in the end it cost somewhere between 8 and 12K (not including the original truck and bolt on stuff like tyres & rims).
Again, Im not having a go, but I recon that you have to realy weigh up what you want and then how long and how much it will take to do it.
Paul.
PS, I kind of like the 2.6l Isuzu option, but from memory Zuk also put out a 2.4? that has quite a bit of torque.
Sorry to be a party pooper. But reading your posts you memtion that you are looking to keep things as cost effective (cheap) as you can. It's non of my business, but if you need to be that concerned with the $$ I would recommend that you realy think about what you want in the end. I know that with my truck I have spent at least twice what I thought I would. It is all the stupid little things that you don't expect to cost much that chew through the $$.
Don't get me wrong, no matter how you go it will be a great project, but in my opinion you will need many $1000's to get it all running, and would not be at all surised that in the end it cost somewhere between 8 and 12K (not including the original truck and bolt on stuff like tyres & rims).
Again, Im not having a go, but I recon that you have to realy weigh up what you want and then how long and how much it will take to do it.
Paul.
PS, I kind of like the 2.6l Isuzu option, but from memory Zuk also put out a 2.4? that has quite a bit of torque.
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It's not what you buy, it's what you build.
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It's not what you buy, it's what you build.
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Carlton, well that's another way to go about it. I suppose I could but I wouldn't be able to engineer it until it's running with the all the right gear. It wouldn't be able to street very well straight away to start with. One drawback about your approach is that I'd probably need to redo driveshafts twice - (1) to get the the extended wheelbase with stock driveline and (2) to match the new gear box, xcase combination after all that has been put in. At least it seems like the sensible option. Then I might as well not road register this car until everything's been certified.
I know I definitely wanna make a Rocklobster case like this http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Outback/3 ... bster.html and the good thing is I already have an '84 1L case. The 1.3L case will be easy to obtain. I'll recheck the numbers but I think I can get 194:1 in double low with a Rockhoppered Vitara xcase and around 20:1 in double high (which is nearly stock).
Anyway, polling is now closed. The plan goes ahead as planned. BJ and Cheezy, let me know if you're still keen because I want Volvo NOW! PM me dudes.
I know I definitely wanna make a Rocklobster case like this http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Outback/3 ... bster.html and the good thing is I already have an '84 1L case. The 1.3L case will be easy to obtain. I'll recheck the numbers but I think I can get 194:1 in double low with a Rockhoppered Vitara xcase and around 20:1 in double high (which is nearly stock).
Anyway, polling is now closed. The plan goes ahead as planned. BJ and Cheezy, let me know if you're still keen because I want Volvo NOW! PM me dudes.
Blair, it's too late. You can't have my Zook! 
________________________________
Paul, I know what you mean about cost creep. I expect it to run upto about $15k at the moment. My plan is still to minimize costs but I am prepared for worst. But the good thing is, should it all turn pear-shaped, I will still have "assets" such as (axles, tyres, xcases, etc...) that I can keep and reuse or sell. I have looked at the long term and this is what I wanna do. Anyway, how did your SAS conversion go? I was considering it for my Terrano at one stage but it would've been a waste anyway. How easy was it to fit the Chev under the Pathy hood? If you don't mind me asking, how much have you spent so far?
________________________________
Paul, I know what you mean about cost creep. I expect it to run upto about $15k at the moment. My plan is still to minimize costs but I am prepared for worst. But the good thing is, should it all turn pear-shaped, I will still have "assets" such as (axles, tyres, xcases, etc...) that I can keep and reuse or sell. I have looked at the long term and this is what I wanna do. Anyway, how did your SAS conversion go? I was considering it for my Terrano at one stage but it would've been a waste anyway. How easy was it to fit the Chev under the Pathy hood? If you don't mind me asking, how much have you spent so far?
IMHO,
Go with Vitara Engine and Hilux Underbits, been done before.
Parts are available, easy to work on.
Good bang for your buck....
Go with Vitara Engine and Hilux Underbits, been done before.
Parts are available, easy to work on.
Good bang for your buck....
MY JEEP BUILD
v840 wrote: [Not a shot at Tonka] It's like saying, hell I've got two nuts, I may as well cut one of them off for the hell of it. I ain't using it.[/NAS@T] It's ridiculous!
ToNkA wrote:IMHO,
Go with Vitara Engine and Hilux Underbits, been done before.
Parts are available, easy to work on.
Good bang for your buck....
Eddie, your points are valid but I don't want something that's been done before. Time to try something different man!
Carlton, this 1L + 4speed POS has trouble getting the stocker upto 80kph!
dude, different is good, but driving any capable rig is fun too.
Go with something tech, but already covered, like a modded zook with hilux bits, learn what works, when you gain more experience with building cars and playing around with stuff, then go different.
Gotta work your way up, I can just see a Lot of problems in trying to create a unique 4x4 right out of the blocks...
Go with something tech, but already covered, like a modded zook with hilux bits, learn what works, when you gain more experience with building cars and playing around with stuff, then go different.
Gotta work your way up, I can just see a Lot of problems in trying to create a unique 4x4 right out of the blocks...
MY JEEP BUILD
v840 wrote: [Not a shot at Tonka] It's like saying, hell I've got two nuts, I may as well cut one of them off for the hell of it. I ain't using it.[/NAS@T] It's ridiculous!
maybe when he has a mid life crisis he'll go extreme 
if i was you i would go with the commodore v6 and hilux transfer with the volvo diffs and coil overs.
I wouldnt worry about the diffs being too big or heavy for the sierra. Lots of unsprung weight makes it alot harder to roll. I am putting rockwells under my 40, and they are heavy, i would imagine alot heavier than the volvos.
If you are worried about the width, you could probably run a bit more backspacing on the rims.
Be different, dont go with the hilux diffs.
I wouldnt worry about the diffs being too big or heavy for the sierra. Lots of unsprung weight makes it alot harder to roll. I am putting rockwells under my 40, and they are heavy, i would imagine alot heavier than the volvos.
If you are worried about the width, you could probably run a bit more backspacing on the rims.
Be different, dont go with the hilux diffs.
mickbj42 wrote:if i was you i would go with the commodore v6 and hilux transfer with the volvo diffs and coil overs.
I wouldnt worry about the diffs being too big or heavy for the sierra. Lots of unsprung weight makes it alot harder to roll. I am putting rockwells under my 40, and they are heavy, i would imagine alot heavier than the volvos.
If you are worried about the width, you could probably run a bit more backspacing on the rims.
Be different, dont go with the hilux diffs.
Your suggestion, although quite intriguing, is rather expensive. I may consider coilovers but at the moment I'm thinking just a spring over. I'll see if I can get hold of a Commodore V6 but I don't know how much it's gonna cost. I suppose the hilux transfer should be easy to obtain.
I have never considered the relationship between unsprung mass and rollover-ability, but you make sense. I was also thinking of doing a disc brake conversion so I could run standard 6-stud rims. If I was gonna get custom wheels anyway, I might as well stay with drums.
N.A.M
Be original do what you want to do you are right everyone will have a different opinion
We do a lot of jobs that people say won't work or noone else wants to do and to date we have made them all work.
People told me I could never be competitve against the big trucks unless I ran hilux diffs, Diesel engine and bigger than 37 inch tyres.
My only advice is that the volvo diffs would be heavy and it will take a fair bit of torque to get them to turn. If you use a torque engine I don't think that the Sierra transfer will take the pressure.
Anyway its just my 2 bobs worth but goodluck whichever way you go.
Be original do what you want to do you are right everyone will have a different opinion
We do a lot of jobs that people say won't work or noone else wants to do and to date we have made them all work.
People told me I could never be competitve against the big trucks unless I ran hilux diffs, Diesel engine and bigger than 37 inch tyres.
My only advice is that the volvo diffs would be heavy and it will take a fair bit of torque to get them to turn. If you use a torque engine I don't think that the Sierra transfer will take the pressure.
Anyway its just my 2 bobs worth but goodluck whichever way you go.
Commodore conversion could be done very cheap. Buy a smashed or just generally crap vn commodore and pull the motor and gearbox from it. Buy a complete car you get the computer and wiring harness and most of the little crap things you end up needing for a conversion.
I would try and use some kind of link suspension, at least in the rear, so you can move the rear axle back to allow for a decent driveshaft length.
With the volvos ratio being 8:1 (i think that is what i read somewhere) you wouldnt need any rockhopper gears or dual cases so you would save a bit of cash there.
It all depends on how much you can do yourself as to how much it will end up costing you. Look at Sams zook, he has spent stuff all on that, you can build a good rig cheap.
I would try and use some kind of link suspension, at least in the rear, so you can move the rear axle back to allow for a decent driveshaft length.
With the volvos ratio being 8:1 (i think that is what i read somewhere) you wouldnt need any rockhopper gears or dual cases so you would save a bit of cash there.
It all depends on how much you can do yourself as to how much it will end up costing you. Look at Sams zook, he has spent stuff all on that, you can build a good rig cheap.
Nam,
You will get conflicting opinions as everyone will see what you have differently and the app they would use it for....You want to crawl it or race it etc......
You mention SPOA for the suspension. How will you deal with the axles trying to twist themselves as the drop axles will acentuate this greatly. Even if you go coil stoping the axles wraping will be one of your major design factors.
Down in geelong you can source S/C 4.2L V6 Chevs now that would be different. What with 190 to 1 and that donk in a Zuk, jezuzs posie on the cross aint safe.....
Nam why don't you just make phases in the build up for example get the power plant and drive train you want into the thing first. This way you will have a better idea of COG and space available for future sus mods Volvo's etc...If you go the other way you may restrict yourself in what you can fit to it engine wise and you wont have the suspension tuned to the new wieght dist.....
Once again just thoughts get it done already this thing will rock whatever way you go.....
You will get conflicting opinions as everyone will see what you have differently and the app they would use it for....You want to crawl it or race it etc......
You mention SPOA for the suspension. How will you deal with the axles trying to twist themselves as the drop axles will acentuate this greatly. Even if you go coil stoping the axles wraping will be one of your major design factors.
Down in geelong you can source S/C 4.2L V6 Chevs now that would be different. What with 190 to 1 and that donk in a Zuk, jezuzs posie on the cross aint safe.....
Nam why don't you just make phases in the build up for example get the power plant and drive train you want into the thing first. This way you will have a better idea of COG and space available for future sus mods Volvo's etc...If you go the other way you may restrict yourself in what you can fit to it engine wise and you wont have the suspension tuned to the new wieght dist.....
Once again just thoughts get it done already this thing will rock whatever way you go.....
Official member of the Babinda Jimmy James Beam III Fan Club
Darth Bobo Honker Hunter Inc, for the up gunned Poodlefaker.
:armsup:"ARMS UP":armsup:
Darth Bobo Honker Hunter Inc, for the up gunned Poodlefaker.
:armsup:"ARMS UP":armsup:
Hey N*A*M, whatever your decision about what and how to build it, try to keep in mind what sort of terrain you are building it for. Do you intend to enter comps with it, will you have to trailer it to somewhere to drive it, or could it be used as a daily driver if you had to. Remember not all tracks are slow rocky crawling type tracks. Especially in Victoria! When it rains that is...
Custom Barwork
Cages built to CCDA specs
Turbo and intercooler systems for diesel and petrol.......PM me.
Centavic Performance 4WD
Cages built to CCDA specs
Turbo and intercooler systems for diesel and petrol.......PM me.
Centavic Performance 4WD
Mick, I'll go to a damaged vehicle auction and see if there are any good and cheap Commos. I'll see if my mechanic can source anything. Suspension wise, I am now thinking 1/4 rear, SOA front like Sam K's. The Volvo's will be 7.08:1 which will climb sufficiently, but I still want more gearing options. Well I ain't gonna be able to do much myself except for maybe body mods. My only ability is to source Volvos cheap.
Singo, I think a well sorted link system mimmicking Sam K's would handle axle wrap sufficiently. If I was just doing SOA, a traction bar would be mandatory. What's this V6 Chev you're talking about? More info please. Don't forget there isn't much space under the Sierra hood. I wonder how well a Mazda rotary would work for offroading? Is there any torque down low? No matter what, everything will be done in steps because I wouldn't be able to get it all done at once. However, I gotta find the best route to go about this so that I don't waste time and money doubling up.
Justin, my plan is to make it streetable, registered and engineered but it will be primarily offroad only. The reason I'm looking at all the gearing options is so that I can still cruise at a reasonable speed when needed. That's why I was leaning towards the Vitara and Sierra Rocklobster gearing. But if I can find a powerful engine, it wouldn't be as crucial. Also, I dislike rain and mud. That's why I want to keep a sealed cabin. My body mods will be done with this in mind.
Singo, I think a well sorted link system mimmicking Sam K's would handle axle wrap sufficiently. If I was just doing SOA, a traction bar would be mandatory. What's this V6 Chev you're talking about? More info please. Don't forget there isn't much space under the Sierra hood. I wonder how well a Mazda rotary would work for offroading? Is there any torque down low? No matter what, everything will be done in steps because I wouldn't be able to get it all done at once. However, I gotta find the best route to go about this so that I don't waste time and money doubling up.
Justin, my plan is to make it streetable, registered and engineered but it will be primarily offroad only. The reason I'm looking at all the gearing options is so that I can still cruise at a reasonable speed when needed. That's why I was leaning towards the Vitara and Sierra Rocklobster gearing. But if I can find a powerful engine, it wouldn't be as crucial. Also, I dislike rain and mud. That's why I want to keep a sealed cabin. My body mods will be done with this in mind.
NAM,
so whats the plan now??
comm V6 with auto box, hilux t-case (1 or 2)
what about drive shafts will u have to go custom???
spring over is going to be HIGH, coil over would be good on rear to maximise wheel base, but is costy!! (3 link coilover for my hilux from calbah would be around $6000)
personally i think that you will blow your budget big time, labour aint cheap especially for custom stuff.
hope it works out dude should be one awsome little beast.
so whats the plan now??
comm V6 with auto box, hilux t-case (1 or 2)
what about drive shafts will u have to go custom???
spring over is going to be HIGH, coil over would be good on rear to maximise wheel base, but is costy!! (3 link coilover for my hilux from calbah would be around $6000)
personally i think that you will blow your budget big time, labour aint cheap especially for custom stuff.
hope it works out dude
should be one awsome little beast.Blair,
90 2.8D HILUX s/c
33" BFG m/t
90 2.8D HILUX s/c
33" BFG m/t
Saw the cop of the zuk in the members section. Looks good, but how do you intend to do that when you are going to use springs ?? The only way to get the axles that far forward/back is to use coils. Otherwise the chassi will be sticking out both ends to support the springs.
Coils or coil overs would be the way to go, but it is going to cost alot more.
Chris
Coils or coil overs would be the way to go, but it is going to cost alot more.
Chris
Teach yourself AutoCAD so you can draw up everything that you need. Draw it up allowing to use standard coils you can get cheap (a lot of people seem to use cortina rears & jeep TJ fronts) Give all your drawings to someone to make you up the links/mounts & coil mounts, etc, get someone else to do all the weldy weldy onto the truck and you're done. Sounds good in theory, hey? 
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