Well I'm in a bit of a pickle - I've just spent the weekend and many hours prior preparing my car for a spray, and as of last night it's all sitting there ready for a lick (photos coming). The spray gun I had organised though fell through, and now I'm confused about the alternatives.
Can anyone offer their opinions on what I might need to do the job? Background is that I want a decent coat of paint that'll last a little while, but it's a beater and I'm really keen on the cheapest option. I was thinking of just using KillRust to paint.
From what I've read, the vast majority are really keen on HVLP (High Volume, Low Pressure) guns, which either come with a turbine and are thus portable, or are (what used to be?) called conversion HVLP guns which can run off a normal compressor. But then there's a few critics of the HVLP too.
Then there's top (gravity) feed guns, siphon guns, and plenty of variations on the theme.
The thing is I have access to a large compressor (although will be struggling getting it to the car, which is immobile), but not to a gun. Is there anyone in the Newcastle area that would let me borrow their gun, or should I look at buying one? Pity it is a bit of a one-use thing for me - I really can't justify spending more than $50 on it unless I can get most of my money back. eBay has a few, but I would really like it today or tomorrow.
I'm tempted to buy one of those air tool starter kits too, because I forsee getting set up with air in the future. But are the spray guns in these kits shite?
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Spray paint guns
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Spray paint guns
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
Thanks guys. I cornered a couple of Toolies guys and got some good info out of them. They pretty much echoed what you guys are saying - that a good sprayer can get a good finish out of a crap gun, and that for my purposes, the benefits of the pricey guns are few.
So! I have my eye on the whole kit - compressor + gun in starter kit. Toolies have a $249 jobby that gives you 2HP, 129L/min, 25L tank + 5 pc tool kit. But, Supercheap have a 2HP, 20L tank for $99 ($22 off) and the air tool kit for $50. They also have a 2.5HP, 40L compressor for $169.
I like the portability of the smaller one, so might get away with the cheapy. Am I missing out on much by not getting the 2.5HP/40L one? I'd like to inflate my 35's (though seeing I could do it at home, wouldn't really be too concerned about the time taken), drive a rattle gun for rim nuts, and of course, do this respray.
Oh yeah, and I just bought 4L of "killrust Superior Protection Epoxy Enamel" in.... Ultra Blue for $80. Hmm... I hope this works out alright - I'm all nervous now, after spending so long preparing the job.
So! I have my eye on the whole kit - compressor + gun in starter kit. Toolies have a $249 jobby that gives you 2HP, 129L/min, 25L tank + 5 pc tool kit. But, Supercheap have a 2HP, 20L tank for $99 ($22 off) and the air tool kit for $50. They also have a 2.5HP, 40L compressor for $169.
I like the portability of the smaller one, so might get away with the cheapy. Am I missing out on much by not getting the 2.5HP/40L one? I'd like to inflate my 35's (though seeing I could do it at home, wouldn't really be too concerned about the time taken), drive a rattle gun for rim nuts, and of course, do this respray.
Oh yeah, and I just bought 4L of "killrust Superior Protection Epoxy Enamel" in.... Ultra Blue for $80. Hmm... I hope this works out alright - I'm all nervous now, after spending so long preparing the job.
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
Will a 2hp be big enough to do ya painting? I just got a hvlp off of ebay for 60-70 bucks. Its gravity fed with a 1.4 tip. Lays paint fine. Just reading you said youve done the prep already? Make sure you give it a sand within 24 hours before you paint it. I was told to do this and checking out some forums ive seen guys that didnt do this and their paint peeling off in sheets. But those are fancy 2 pak jobbies. The rustguard might stick better.
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just dont leave it in undercoat for too long...many people dont realise that undercoat breaths and therefor will let the moisture through and in turn may (I did say MAY) lead to rust in the future!
and if you think finding the right gun is a hassle...wait till ya start battling with that sh!t
and if you think finding the right gun is a hassle...wait till ya start battling with that sh!t
L.S Canvas & P.V.C
www.lscanvas.com.au
www.lscanvas.com.au
another thing you may want to{should} consider buying is a good water separator/regulator otherwise you'll get a heap of water in the gun/paint and a sh#t job.
it needs to be placed near to the gun to work at it's best.
on my setup there is the orig separator/regulator on the compressor [which is pretty crap}and i fitted a second one{a good one} about 4 metres from the gun in the airline. i figured 4 metres is far enough away to be able to drag around on the ground when spraying without hitting the car and stuffing up the paint.
as has been said it's not the gun quality that counts it's the operator. i just use a gravity feed gun paid about $90 for it and i have no idea what i'm doing but it produces good jobs when i've used it.
practice makes perfect or at least better than the first attempt and anyone who knocks the finished job can get stuffed because you've done it yourself and they don't have the balls to have a go. good luck.
it needs to be placed near to the gun to work at it's best.
on my setup there is the orig separator/regulator on the compressor [which is pretty crap}and i fitted a second one{a good one} about 4 metres from the gun in the airline. i figured 4 metres is far enough away to be able to drag around on the ground when spraying without hitting the car and stuffing up the paint.
as has been said it's not the gun quality that counts it's the operator. i just use a gravity feed gun paid about $90 for it and i have no idea what i'm doing but it produces good jobs when i've used it.
practice makes perfect or at least better than the first attempt and anyone who knocks the finished job can get stuffed because you've done it yourself and they don't have the balls to have a go. good luck.
The operator does have a reasonable influence on the end job. But a good spray gun makes a big difference.
I am not sure whether you are painting a few panels or the whole car. If it is the whole car you will need a spray gun with a 1ltre pot. A 1.4mm nossle is usually for 2 pack paint. You use about a 1.7mm for acrylic and about 2.5mm for spray putty. Kill rust is a reasonably thick paint and therefore you will have to thin it down a fair bit to spray it. I am not sure why you went with Kill Rust when you could have purchased proper acrylic car paint matched to the existing colour of your car for about the same price and you would not have had to do a colour change to the car.
The small compressor will not keep up with the larger spray guns. I have a smaller touch up spray gun that works alright off the smaller compressors and is good for painting a panel or two. It only holds about 200mls of paint. I purchase most of my spray stuff from Paintmobile. The touch up spray gun was only $33 and the 1 litre spray guns cost me $58 each. Computer matched acrylic colour paint is $104 a litre, but plain white is a lot cheaper.
I am not a spray painter. I do a little panel work on the Rangie from time to time and I am nearly finished painting my sons 73 Celica in a complete colour change to Monaro Yellow. I have just learnt from my many mistakes made and asking a lot of questions.
I am not sure whether you are painting a few panels or the whole car. If it is the whole car you will need a spray gun with a 1ltre pot. A 1.4mm nossle is usually for 2 pack paint. You use about a 1.7mm for acrylic and about 2.5mm for spray putty. Kill rust is a reasonably thick paint and therefore you will have to thin it down a fair bit to spray it. I am not sure why you went with Kill Rust when you could have purchased proper acrylic car paint matched to the existing colour of your car for about the same price and you would not have had to do a colour change to the car.
The small compressor will not keep up with the larger spray guns. I have a smaller touch up spray gun that works alright off the smaller compressors and is good for painting a panel or two. It only holds about 200mls of paint. I purchase most of my spray stuff from Paintmobile. The touch up spray gun was only $33 and the 1 litre spray guns cost me $58 each. Computer matched acrylic colour paint is $104 a litre, but plain white is a lot cheaper.
I am not a spray painter. I do a little panel work on the Rangie from time to time and I am nearly finished painting my sons 73 Celica in a complete colour change to Monaro Yellow. I have just learnt from my many mistakes made and asking a lot of questions.
Re: Spray paint guns
if you get really stuck i will lend you my gun. rather not have killrust go through it though. its a gravity fed bluepoint (snap on) 1.7 tip (from memory) hvlp i think. almost new used only once, and no i don't want to sell it. if you get really stuck pm me your number
Whole car, short wheel base, with fibreglass canopy.p76rangie wrote:I am not sure whether you are painting a few panels or the whole car.
Right. The tin says you don't need to thin it, but if spraying, thin with turps up to %15. I guess I'll start with about 10% turps and see how I go from there. I think the nozzle on the gun I now have was 1.5mm from memory.Kill rust is a reasonably thick paint and therefore you will have to thin it down a fair bit to spray it.
Cause I want to do a colour change? I'm going to all this trouble to paint it, so I figure a change of scene would be nice. It's white (or cream or something) at the moment, with patches of pink bog, and a few funny colours where I've really sanded the paint back. Not looking for a show room finish here, but I hope the blue goes on okay. Also, the paint was $70 for 4L, and should be good at keeping the rust at bay. The rust, large paint peeling, and the spiderwebbing of the paint where I assume the body was flexing, are the main reasons I've gone to all this trouble in the first place. The Killrust tin says it is durable, flexible and hardy or something. Probably crap, but sounds good to me.I am not sure why you went with Kill Rust when you could have purchased proper acrylic car paint matched to the existing colour of your car for about the same price and you would not have had to do a colour change to the car.
In the end, I dunno why I really went with Killrust - someone recommended it, I heard it was actually okay paint, it is good with rust, its cheap and easily available. To be honest, I didn't even look at other paints much - I don't know what I'm looking at.
Yeah, bugger that. Could be a tricky old operation then! I'll get there, but I suppose it might be a bit patchy.The small compressor will not keep up with the larger spray guns.
I certainly wasn't looking to spend that much! Maybe that means I'll be spending more later to fix a crap job, but I'll just have to wait and see.Computer matched acrylic colour paint is $104 a litre, but plain white is a lot cheaper.
Thanks for the all the advice - I'm looking forward to making plenty of mistakes!I have just learnt from my many mistakes made and asking a lot of questions.
Ah bugger - I went with the little fella. The bigger one is a bit big for me at the moment - until I move into a house of my own anyway (remember I still live on campus!). Just going to have to be patient I guess.MY45 wrote:Heath get the 2.5Hp....my 2hp sux, im allways waiting for it to rechgarge whether im using the rattle gun or the spray gun. Spent the extra $70, coz itll be woirth it.
Mate, you seem to have a bit of a grudge against my favourite shopOh also do the air comps at supercheap have any waranty.....supercheap usually means supershit.
no doubt due to a few bad experiences. I've had very good luck there. The very rare returns (out of many, many purchases) have been handled well, and my $25 angle grinder is still grinding away like a champion. As for the comp, yeah a 12 month manufacturers warranty. You get a terrible instruction booklet and no-name parts and that kinda crap that you might not get with say, the Toolies $250 job, but I'm prepared to take the risk again this time...That sort of option was really tempting at one point actually. I'd done all the prep work, and thought I could really use some professional expertise and gear to do the paint job right and the prep work justice. But... the car is difficult to move now, I've come this far myself, and it's a good opportunity to save some cash in the short term, and put my own sweat into the whole job. In software programming they call it NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome...ratboy wrote:if u want some thing that will hang on like shitt to a blanket get the car ready and take it to a industrial painter and get him to 2pack it for u with industrail paint as for color just what thay have left over
Thanks very much! At this stage I wont take you up, and see how I go with the cheapy I got with the kit, but I appreciate the offer.bowser wrote:if you get really stuck i will lend you my gun.
Thank you everyone, for your comments. Absolute lifesavers. I would have started spraying last night, but discovered that the outlet of the compressor is threaded, and all the air tools are quick connect. Argh... back to Supercheap AGAIN! I'll be documenting all my progress in the members section soon. I would have had a few photos up by now, but can't find the USB cable for the camera.
Masking, final light sand this arvo - painting starts tonight
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
I used kill rust through my spray gun to paint some old wheels. Normally you would mix 40% paint to 60% thinners for a spray gun. But due to the thickness of kill rust I think from memory that I mixed it 30% paint to 70% thinners. I do not think adding 10% turps will get you too far.
One final thing, Kill rust takes a long time to harden. you may want to leave it a few days between coats.
One final thing, Kill rust takes a long time to harden. you may want to leave it a few days between coats.
I just sprayed my 60 series white last week, have a 40lt cheapy compressor with water separator reg and i bought a spray gun from bunnings for 50 bucks, the compressor done the job easy and im no painter.
I used white enamel which you mix paint 80% enamel reducer 20%
( not thinners or turps , enamel reducer .. ) , the bloke at the paint shop told me pressure about 45 psi,dont spray if its over 24 degrees , and give about 5 mins between coats till satisfied .
its already mentioned but enamel will take a good few week to harden properly but will tack of in a short time , also when unmasking you may need a knife to cut the through the paint at the edge of the tape cause it may peel of like glad wrap if its too soon .
anyway have fun ...
Cheers !!
Hey Charger.
I used white enamel which you mix paint 80% enamel reducer 20%
( not thinners or turps , enamel reducer .. ) , the bloke at the paint shop told me pressure about 45 psi,dont spray if its over 24 degrees , and give about 5 mins between coats till satisfied .
its already mentioned but enamel will take a good few week to harden properly but will tack of in a short time , also when unmasking you may need a knife to cut the through the paint at the edge of the tape cause it may peel of like glad wrap if its too soon .
anyway have fun ...
Cheers !!
Hey Charger.
farkin mutha farkin
First coat went super, super sweet. Piece of bloody p!ss, and was looking good. Apparently it was too easy though, because I went out this evening to put the second coat on, and whaddya know? The farkin gun is spraying air, no paint!
Made a bloody mess pulling it apart, putting the paint back in the tin, getting paint everywhere, running turps through the gun, trying all pressures, all settings, thinning the paint right down (now the rest of the 4L tin has about 750mL of bloody turps in it and I'm out of turps) but could only get patchy, spotty spray, sometimes. I'd already lightly sanded back the first coat, so tried to put another coat on anyway. Bloody hassle that was - getting dark and the flood lights dont really tell you the true story. Ended up spending all night on it, just managing to get a quarter of a damn bodgy second coat on.
the first coat looked gorgeous! Now cause I skimped on the tools (and probably ran a bit too much pressure through the gun for the first coat or something?) I've gone and made a mess.
Anyone got any hints on how to get this silly gun working? If I put paint in the feeder tube and hold it upside down, there's a decent stream out the nozzle on pressing the trigger (with no air). It will pull plain turps through okay. Even with the paint thinned right down however, it will only blow air, sometimes misty. If I dial the spray shape knob right in (so it sprays a concentrated dot) I can sometimes get it to pick up the paint. Not always though, and not for long. All the internals look okay to me...
I'm going to hit SuperCheap up tomorrow, and see just how generous they are feeling. Be buggered if I'm going to buy a gun now, to do half a coat. Damn, damn, this was all on track - losing a day is a big loss at the moment.
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
After you were done with the gun the first time did you clean the gun properly. As in did you run thinners througn it till it was spraying clean and cleaned out the filters. Also if you hold a rag of thinners over the air cap it will force air back through into the paint cup which further makes sure all the airways and paint passages are clear. If you did all this then you would think that its just a gun setting/air pressure problem. Why didnt you just spray your first coat then wait for it to flash and spray your second,third etc.? Is it something to do with using the rustkill paint?.
Also have you tried just opening up all the gun dials full as in pattern, air and paint?
John
Also have you tried just opening up all the gun dials full as in pattern, air and paint?
John
Did you clean out the gun when you finished the first coat. You could try running thinners (not turps) through the gun to clean it out better. What you are experiencing I have found with the paint mix being too thick. Try thinning the paint down further. Make sure than you also give the spray gun a good shake to mix the paint and what ever you are using to thin it with before you start spraying. Also find something to spray onto and make sure it is operating properly before you point it at the car.
One final thing. You may find that Killrust and petrol do not like each other. So be careful when you fill your car not to get any petrol on it.
One final thing. You may find that Killrust and petrol do not like each other. So be careful when you fill your car not to get any petrol on it.
As soon as I stop spraying I flush the gun out with thinners until it is spraying just thinners, then completely dismantle the gun and soak all the parts in thinners until the next use. That is the only way you can be sure your gun won't clog.
_____________________________________________________________
RUFF wrote:Beally STFU Your becoming a real PITA.
Nope. Prolly would have been a good idea ay? I had only just filled the cup when I finished for the first time, so didn't feel like emptying it all out - thought I could leave it all sealed up and under cover for the 10 hours or so until I picked it back up.Did you clean out the gun when you finished the first coat.
Ah, thanks! Often do seem to spill a bit there when filling.You may find that Killrust and petrol do not like each other. So be careful when you fill your car not to get any petrol on it.
It says on the tin 4 hrs till touch dry, 16 hrs before recoating. So I thought I'd take my time, see how it was progressing.Why didnt you just spray your first coat then wait for it to flash and spray your second,third etc.? Is it something to do with using the rustkill paint?.
I've tried all combinations of settings I'm sure. Tried shaking, tried adding lots of turps, cleaned everything I could see. Thanks for the tips, I'll give it another good go in the morning - hopefully just get it spraying enough to finish the coat. Could be a biatch.
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
p76rangie wrote: What you are experiencing I have found with the paint mix being too thick. Try thinning the paint down further.
What he said, lol. I was told a trick for viscosity once to touch the mixing stick to the can so it puts a drip on the can to run down. You want it to run fairly quick. You dont want it to sit there and you dont want it getting to the bottom in 2 secs. Just a nice steady pace. I was told this for 2 pack but spraying viscosity is spraying viscosity surely.
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should be able to strip most of it down dump it all in thinners for a while then a good scrubbing will get its clean,
when i spray at work it normally takes 20mins to spray and 1hr plus to clean all the gear up afterwoods, but thats using a 2quart remote res pressure fed gun (mucho bling)
when i spray at work it normally takes 20mins to spray and 1hr plus to clean all the gear up afterwoods, but thats using a 2quart remote res pressure fed gun (mucho bling)
www.overkill4x4.com
ph 94766137
ph 94766137
Great tech coming out here thanks guys.
Haha, wouldn't you know it? After writing the last fuming post, and then sulking about it all night, I thought I'd read up on the physical operation of the guns - precisely what causes the paint to come out anyway.
From what I'd seen, I thought maybe the tin was pressured a little (in fact, when I told a workmate I'd run the gun at higher than recommended pressure, he said make sure the tin is not bellowing out at the bottom), which bled the paint into the stream of air where it is atomised and sprayed out. Well it appears that's not quite right for my gun. Instead, there's a tube which runs from the gun down into the tin, but the tin itself is not pressurised. Instead, the air rushing past the top of the tube generates low pressure at the top, drawing the paint up the tube. Hence, a "siphon" gun! Refer to Mr Bernoulli (air over tube creates low pressure "suction") and Mr Venturi (narrower the tube, higher the pressure to maintain flow rate) for the physics of this. The action of course, only occurs when the trigger is pulled, because the trigger is attached to a cone which caps the top end of this tube (at the nozzle). So pulling the trigger simulateneously opens the air valve, letting air flow through the gun, and pulls the cone back allowing the low pressure to draw the paint out of the tube.
How then, does the displaced volume in the tin get replaced? Well, there must be a hole in the top of the tin which lets air from the atmosphere back in.
After discovering this, I crossed my toes that my gun had one of these holes, and that it was blocked, and went to bed. First thing in the morning, I found the gun, picked it up, and located the 2mm hole in the top of the tin, near the siphon stem. A run of paint had covered the hole. I found a leaf and poked the stalk through. Connected air, pulled the trigger, and sprayed a beautiful thick spray of paint everywhere
Makes perfect sense really - the internals looked fine, air was running right, passage from tin to gun to nozzle was clear and clean. I thought things might not be tight enough, so made sure the tin was nice and tight on the gun. Of course, that sealed any chance of air entering the tin, since the normal breathing hole was also blocked. Ain't no way you are going to suck fluid out of a sealed tin!
So despite all the mess I made, and the somewhat excessive amount of turps I'd put in the paint, I managed to complete a thorough second coat this morning. Looking lovely at the moment (as long as you don't look too hard ), and I'll check it out this arvo when I get home to decide where to go from here. It's Thursday arvo already now, so unless anything sticks out, I'll probably leave it as it is. Only two real coats, and having a third might make me feel better, but I think the pros for stopping now outweigh the cons.
Haha, wouldn't you know it? After writing the last fuming post, and then sulking about it all night, I thought I'd read up on the physical operation of the guns - precisely what causes the paint to come out anyway.
From what I'd seen, I thought maybe the tin was pressured a little (in fact, when I told a workmate I'd run the gun at higher than recommended pressure, he said make sure the tin is not bellowing out at the bottom), which bled the paint into the stream of air where it is atomised and sprayed out. Well it appears that's not quite right for my gun. Instead, there's a tube which runs from the gun down into the tin, but the tin itself is not pressurised. Instead, the air rushing past the top of the tube generates low pressure at the top, drawing the paint up the tube. Hence, a "siphon" gun! Refer to Mr Bernoulli (air over tube creates low pressure "suction") and Mr Venturi (narrower the tube, higher the pressure to maintain flow rate) for the physics of this. The action of course, only occurs when the trigger is pulled, because the trigger is attached to a cone which caps the top end of this tube (at the nozzle). So pulling the trigger simulateneously opens the air valve, letting air flow through the gun, and pulls the cone back allowing the low pressure to draw the paint out of the tube.
How then, does the displaced volume in the tin get replaced? Well, there must be a hole in the top of the tin which lets air from the atmosphere back in.
After discovering this, I crossed my toes that my gun had one of these holes, and that it was blocked, and went to bed. First thing in the morning, I found the gun, picked it up, and located the 2mm hole in the top of the tin, near the siphon stem. A run of paint had covered the hole. I found a leaf and poked the stalk through. Connected air, pulled the trigger, and sprayed a beautiful thick spray of paint everywhere
Makes perfect sense really - the internals looked fine, air was running right, passage from tin to gun to nozzle was clear and clean. I thought things might not be tight enough, so made sure the tin was nice and tight on the gun. Of course, that sealed any chance of air entering the tin, since the normal breathing hole was also blocked. Ain't no way you are going to suck fluid out of a sealed tin!
So despite all the mess I made, and the somewhat excessive amount of turps I'd put in the paint, I managed to complete a thorough second coat this morning. Looking lovely at the moment (as long as you don't look too hard
), and I'll check it out this arvo when I get home to decide where to go from here. It's Thursday arvo already now, so unless anything sticks out, I'll probably leave it as it is. Only two real coats, and having a third might make me feel better, but I think the pros for stopping now outweigh the cons.* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:So then, WHERE ARE THE PICS!?!?!
Plenty on the camera. Watch my members section on the weekend when the dude that owns the camera comes back and I can finally get the pics off!
Still want to do rims (white), exposed chassis/underbody (black, tar, sound deadening) and cut the rust out of the radiator supports. Hopefully done over the weekend.
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
Heathx4 wrote:Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:So then, WHERE ARE THE PICS!?!?!
Plenty on the camera. Watch my members section on the weekend when the dude that owns the camera comes back and I can finally get the pics off!
Still want to do rims (white), exposed chassis/underbody (black, tar, sound deadening) and cut the rust out of the radiator supports. Hopefully done over the weekend.
Did u replace that farked door??
and i asume its white again yeh?
acrylic?
screwy
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