Tuff Truck 2003

[OVERKILL ENG]

Antt I wuold go crazy if I could only compete three times a year.
Tuff truck is a lot closer to us as well.
Although XRCC was a good event it is in its early stages and the Sunday tracks really aren't much different to tuff truck. Saturdays events were rockcrawling tracks.So there is a way to go before there will be a purely rockcrawling competition.
SAM

[moose]

different styles for every event !!!
nissan trials rules , plain & simple = suck !!!!!
tuff truck , you actually have to use your brain!!
do I try & drive an obsticle , 3 or 4 times ,& get penalised for every reverse , or how ever they do it !!
or drive 1 line , as far as you can , then winch it ,loose the points , but finish the course in the time limit !!!!

& , not being there , it sounds like XRCC is similar , to a point !!,
drive as far as you can , get stuck ,or break it , then winch !!!!


each event cant satisfy every competitor or spectator !!!!


just my 2 cents worth !!!!

[BeZeRK]

yea, but id rather go out in my POS and have fun trying to drive up whateva hills with my mates and seeing who get the furthest... No points, no money, just a group of mates that go out and drive for somthing to do and have a few beers (or alot of rums) around a campfire telling bullshit stories of what happened over the day and what there dooing on the next day!!! (before passing out in a swag with some bitch) Sure, might not have the competitors and exposure, but Less hassles and less bullshit and do what you want!!!

On the comp thing though, I got fucking SICK TO DEATH of winching at TTC 2002!! FUCKIN DRIVE IT!!!!!

[Strange Rover]

The setup sounds good to me.

But just a few observations.

No system for picking the competitors is perfect but this one sounds better than the previous years (except for the masters thing - I dont want to see the same rigs that shouldnt have been there two years running having another go)

The winching in tuff truck is a bad thing but they carnt get away from it with their current long track format with the hardest part in the middle of the course. Have a look at last years tracks there would only be 10 metres of hard driving (if you can even call it that) in each course. The rest is just useless padding to extend the event. Problem is that most of the points are stacked in the useless padding so if you carnt drive the hard bit then just winch out and get back to the padding.

I dont think that they are using the road registered thing to use the road insurance. The legally registared bit guarantees that the vehicles are up to a suffecient safety standard (seats, belts, brakes, roll over protection, engine, etc etc etc) and given that these rigs are up to this safety standard then it is more easy to get competition insurance for them. Its the simplest way to do it as our rigs and style of competition doesent come under CAMS or any other motor sport body.

I think that the tuff truck event wants to be road vehicle based and not open to custom built tube buggies that have no basis to the real world 4wds. Once you allow the buggys in then where do you draw the limit - can I turn up in a cardboard cutout 4wd with my legs poking through the bottom and run around the courses - no - cause nobody wants to see that happen cause it doesent relate to real works 4wding. Same goes for the tube buggys IMO - tuff truck appeals to a much wider audience that wants to see real 4wds and not cardboard cutouts.

The guys not wanting to see that same contenders battling it out again - what a load of BS. The only same contenders that competed again last year werent in the top 5 placings. IMO all the top placings were in completely new rigs from the previous year. Loose these guys from the competition and the competition would be lost (and you would be left with lots of winching)

Also tuff truck isnt about rock crawling - it never has been.

Sam

[grimbo]

I agree Strange rover. tuff truck is about the tuffest 4wd not the best rockcrawler. By restricting it to rockcrawling you are attracting about 1% of the capable vehicles out there which is also based pretty much in NSW and QLD it appears. By having a mix of events regardless if we all agree on how tuff they are it opens it up to a wider range of competitors.

The registered thing is a reality and will be for a long time so get over it. You knew about it and you will find most if not all events will require vehicles to road registered and "legal". Thats just a fact with the current insurance climate and we don't even want to go down the CAMS type of way.

As to the winching part it is also part of an overall package. I do not want to see some halfwit keep the boot in once he is stuck only to get himself more stuck then have to watch a 2 hour recovery to get him out when he could have taken a 20 point penalty and finished the event. It's all about keeping the event flowing. I agree watching everyone winch everything is just as boring. It is all about strategy as well, knowing when to cut your loses take the penalty and finish. Hmmmmm thinking

Also the big thing is this is a magazine based event and the bottom line no matter how hard it is to admit . And thus they have to sell mags and get people to the event and the majority of people to do that aren't the people on this board. We are still a minority in the 4wheeling world of Oz

[Wendle]

I think the tuff truck comp will always require rego, because they are trying to keep it the tuff "TRUCK" comp, not the tuff buggy thing comp. Main reason being that is what the sponsors want, because then the greater public can identify the vehicles competing with their own. A sponsor will fund a patrol or a hilux or whatever because then their customers can identify with a product that they can buy for their own truck. Ask cheezy how much extra work he has put in, and how many compromises he has had to make to keep his truck looking like a nissan, just to keep his sponsors on side.
So I don't think tuff truck will ever want to be a rockcrawling event, that is what XRCC is meant to be. But on that side of things, I think round zero was a rockcrawling event, but round one was more of an all-terrain event, quite similar to tuff truck, really. I haven't, and probably never will compete in either, so my opinion is of no concern, but that is the way I see it....

[bj on roids]

[quote="RUFF]If you can find an area in Aus like the US has then this will be one awsome event. But in Aus i am yet to see something that nature has made this way. Man made obstacles suck.

Go talk to the Blackman and ask to drive up Ayers Rock and the Olga's [/quote]

they are trying to stop people walking ayres rock and the olgas i shudder to think 4WDs will be allowed anywhere near them.

Also if you look at the composition of these two structures, they are not rock but STONE, ayers rock is sandstone, composed of a brittle sand compressed for years, it breaks apart very easily. The olgas are a similar conglomeration but of much larger rocks.

[MKPatrolGuy]

Also if you look at the composition of these two structures, they are not rock but STONE, ayers rock is sandstone, composed of a brittle sand compressed for years, it breaks apart very easily. The olgas are a similar conglomeration but of much larger rocks.

Actually Ayers Rock is a bigger rock than the Olgas, Ayers rock is the worlds largest monolith. Yes, the Olgas cover a bigger area but they are all smaller rocks/stones.

[bj on roids]

Also if you look at the composition of these two structures, they are not rock but STONE, ayers rock is sandstone, composed of a brittle sand compressed for years, it breaks apart very easily. The olgas are a similar conglomeration but of much larger rocks.

Actually Ayers Rock is a bigger rock than the Olgas, Ayers rock is the worlds largest monolith. Yes, the Olgas cover a bigger area but they are all smaller rocks/stones.

you h0m0

i am talking about the material composition, not, mass or area, or anything else!

MATERIAL COMPOSITION sand = smaller than small stones. stoner.

NOW, ayres rock is like an ice berg and most of it is underground, running in a large belt, so do you think becuase that bit is underground it should not be measured? i dont care

sand that makes up the composition of ayres rock, is smaller or finer grained than the rocks on the olgas

thanks for your time

[*BESTY*]

Alrighty then....in keeping with the same theme..............








The Bungle Bungles !!!!!

[moose]

if it,s like an ICEBERG !!!!!!
wens it gunna melt !!!!!!!

[bj on roids]

moose, using like to describe it does not mean that it is. metaphorically speaking, i was using the "iceberg" example to say ayres rock has quite a large amount of itself hidden underground.

but anyways, i know its hard for the feeble minded

getting back on topic:
please i need to compete in tuff truck!!!!

[Dozoor]

I agree with a few guys on the lack of evolution of the rigs ,some entrants return with basicly the same thing -this generally is not a piont in the top three or four as there pionts reflect the difference in performance in comparison to the other competitors, But if you where to see a vehicle enter for the third year and placed in the last twenty or so ,that hasn't evolved to increase its chances then it should be automaticly disqualified from entry.
Its my opinion that competition itself is a vehicle for improvment of the general competior and the overall sport itself .and in a sense creating the The somwhat gentic code for the perfect 4x4.
As a Infequent competitor mainy because of political reasons and Bucks hehe, I myself can see no reason to compete over and over agian in the same vehicle with the same setup- unless that setup is a winning one.
The guys in the top finishers are always evolving and getting better results within the constraints of the rules.
Eg: G, dobbins = came back with a improved hydr setup 1st place
Pete alt. come back with a neat new rear diff & rear steer 2nd place
S. Keck . came back with a totally rebiult and upgraded Zook 3rd plac
Siemins boys. a change in body and tires size on there truck 4th place.
If the guys arn't interested in improving there previous placings by upgrading there rigs Don't let them compete .
I can't wiat until somone actually runs a comp in oz That relies purely on vehicle, and team ability .
Format a long weekend , pre post entry ,Huge entry list upto 80 4x4s no need to belong to some club to get picked ,or buy shares in a magazine.
A track that gets gradualy harder, two impossible ,but is of a decent lenght
A time limit of a decent amount You finish if = you time out , no winch ,nobraking bunting ,You can reverse or stop all you want, Thats your qualifiying the twenty that go the furthest go on for the weekend competition. simple.

If you biuld it they will come !

Larry.

[MADSHORT]

I would like some views on my self running in the TTC as I had the call today to enter TTC 2003
Most you guys would know my truck
So is my truck and my self worthy to accept automatic entry
The only mods that will be done this year is to fix the water leak (dam cheap hoses)
But basicly the truck will be presented as it finished last years TTC
as i dont have sponsors to make it look good
Well i have to make some calls now and see what i can sell to cover entry fee (if i decide to play )

Gordon

[POS]

I would like some views on my self running in the TTC as I had the call today to enter TTC 2003
Most you guys would know my truck
So is my truck and my self worthy to accept automatic entry
The only mods that will be done this year is to fix the water leak (dam cheap hoses)
But basicly the truck will be presented as it finished last years TTC
as i dont have sponsors to make it look good
Well i have to make some calls now and see what i can sell to cover entry fee (if i decide to play )

Gordon

Mate who contacted you?

I am dead set keen and i am pretty sure the people organising this event wouldn't even know of me!!!

I dont think just because someone competed the last two years should automatically get them in.

However if these are the RULES and they have already asked you then you would be MAD (get it, as in MADSHORT) not to accept the invite!!

However you would have to ask yourself "am i going to place any better than last year" and "is there someone else out there that may be able to shake up these big $$$$ machines better than i can"

Best of luck with your decision and if you accept BEST OF LUCK AT TTC

[Cheezy4x4]

I have mixed emotions on this subject, as the thing that is most disliked in this thread is the same way I have gotten entry. In my own defence, the first TTC was the first time I had driven the Mav with the 4" lift, 5 link and t-case gears, as all were fitted days b4 the event and the Mav wasnt much, the second TTC was the first time I had driven the Mav with 6" lift and 39.5 swampers, again fitted days b4 the event and due to a blown front diff aka ( rollover) doing the next event in 2wd and a shyt mud event, we went from 4th to 11th position, and still the Mav wasnt much.
Now we come to TTC3, I have 6 months to get used to the new Mav, with atleast 10 events between, the Mav has had a full rebuild and now is up to the task. TTC 2 I did win a trophy, be it crowd pleaser, it still is a TTC trophy.
My first instincts when I read this thread was to pull out my entry from TTC3, to save face and do the right thing in others eyes.
Then I woke up and said FARK IT, until there are enough tuff rigs so there can be a different 30 rigs each and every year, and you can only compete once, as per US Top Truck, you will see the same rigs battling it out each year, and I dont mind this as long as you have made an effort to set up your rig to atleast try and win, not just to be there for the glory of the pics in the mags and vids.
This is my opinion and if it upsets anyone so be it, I WILL run in TTC03 if the orgonisers say they want me there, not for the glory, but for the compertition and try to win. Third time lucky. :shocked!:

[MissDrew]

Oh Cheezy FARK off with your stupid opion

[POS]

I have mixed emotions on this subject, as the thing that is most disliked in this thread is the same way I have gotten entry. In my own defence, the first TTC was the first time I had driven the Mav with the 4" lift, 5 link and t-case gears, as all were fitted days b4 the event and the Mav wasnt much, the second TTC was the first time I had driven the Mav with 6" lift and 39.5 swampers, again fitted days b4 the event and due to a blown front diff aka ( rollover) doing the next event in 2wd and a shyt mud event, we went from 4th to 11th position, and still the Mav wasnt much.
Now we come to TTC3, I have 6 months to get used to the new Mav, with atleast 10 events between, the Mav has had a full rebuild and now is up to the task. TTC 2 I did win a trophy, be it crowd pleaser, it still is a TTC trophy.
My first instincts when I read this thread was to pull out my entry from TTC3, to save face and do the right thing in others eyes.
Then I woke up and said FARK IT, until there are enough tuff rigs so there can be a different 30 rigs each and every year, and you can only compete once, as per US Top Truck, you will see the same rigs battling it out each year, and I dont mind this as long as you have made an effort to set up your rig to atleast try and win, not just to be there for the glory of the pics in the mags and vids.
This is my opinion and if it upsets anyone so be it, I WILL run in TTC03 if the orgonisers say they want me there, not for the glory, but for the compertition and try to win. Third time lucky. :shocked!:

Some really good points there Cheezy, i didn't really have you classed as a "Master" (third year competitor) as i figured you would most likely take care of one of the "Sponsor Chosen" competitors, as they would be mad not to have you back.

You gave it everything, that was proven when you attemped Mini-Wiraba in 2wd, this is the type of "DRIVER/COMPETITOR" everyone likes to see including the SPONSORS!!!

These are the type you want to see back not STOCK nissan patrols and Susuki's with 31 inch tyres that don't attemp to improve there RIGS at all!!!!

[MADSHORT]

As i was told today they started at first place and are going down through the positions till they get 10 trucks
The next 10 picked from all entrants will be sponsors picks
The next 5 picked will be TTC comitte
the last 5 picked will be voted on via internet
PLEASE dont shoot the messenger
this is what i was told by an organiser
I am still undecided on entering as a lot of you guys have good points
But as I belive that I can still improve on my placing (not by spending lots of dollars on my truck)
But by driving better

Gordon

[Drafty]

5 places for new comers isn't a lot. When we were starting to compete we had trouble getting in as we were not well known, and the comps we do normally have 40 plus places, so 5 is jack sh!t. Good luck to the people trying to get in, you will need it.

[POS]

5 places for new comers isn't a lot. When we were starting to compete we had trouble getting in as we were not well known, and the comps we do normally have 40 plus places, so 5 is jack sh!t. Good luck to the people trying to get in, you will need it.

THANKS

[MissDrew]

That is FARKED!!!!!

If my ARB compressor hadn`t of died on the all terrian then I would be higher up the list.

Concidering that is a product of the main sponsor from last year it is even more FARKED. :(

Only 5 places for new ( unknown) rigs that is just parthedic and shear stupidity

[Drafty]

The outback challenge while a different style of 4x4 event is allowing 65 vehicles to compete in this years challenge. The challenge takes a lot more organising then the TTC as it is spread over 9 days and huge area. I can't see why TTC doesn't allow more vehicles to compete. Just plain stupid in my book!!!!

[Strange Rover]

I really dont think it matters how the entrants are decided for this years event. You will never end up with the perfect field in everybodys eyes. There are people that only want to see big rigs with big tyres really get it awn in very difficult, potentially damaging terrain with no winching (this is what I want to see) And there are people that want to see smaller stock rigs mixing it with the big boys and giving them a run for their money.

The past two years have shown that all rigs with very differing levels of capability can compete very successfully in this competition. So IMO if anybody is keen to compete and is given the opportunity to do so then GO FOR IT!!! Because no matter what you drive if you are there and you drive smart than you have a chance at winning.

Tuff Truck isnt really a tuff competition (in terms of the obstacles driven) and it never will be because it must cater for all types of vehicles from the very mild to very wild.

If anybody that is really keen on entering and doesent get an opportunity then dont stress because in the next 12 months or so there will be much "tougher" competitions to be entering and "Tuff Truck" will be just a magazine special that isnt taken seriously by hard core wheelers. Just the same way that Top Truck is looked at in the US.

Sam

[Pal]

5 places for new comers isn't a lot. When we were starting to compete we had trouble getting in as we were not well known, and the comps we do normally have 40 plus places, so 5 is jack sh!t. Good luck to the people trying to get in, you will need it.

THANKS

Read what Mads said :
The next 10 picked from all entrants will be sponsors picks
The next 5 picked will be TTC comitte

To me this means ANY competitor that entered will have a chance to be picked by the sponsors and also another chance to be picked by the committee a total of 15 chances for new comers not 5.
Then if that fails get the internet vote another 5 competitors.


.
They could have put a little more thought into the total selection process!

[Drafty]

Thats right but if you are an unknown and don't have sponsorship from one of the sponsors your not in.

If you don't know any of the comitee (sorry but this is the truth in most cases) your not in.

This leaves 5 spots for the new unknown person, good luck BJ, POS and next year NAM along with all the others.

[Strange Rover]

It will be interesting to see who the sponsors pick. Will they pick people that promote their products or people that will make it a better, more competitive event.

Im guessing that the sponsors will pick rigs that at least can be related to their products and as such will be bolt on modified stock rigs.

Sam

[big red]

i think: the top ten getting in is a great idea as it gives everyone a standard to try and beat.
The organisers want to keep the sponsors happy so they give them a vote which sounds fair to me.
Masters getting in, everyone should get a chance to drive better or fit a stronger part or try and change their bad luck from the previous year.
If there is too many competitors then do some state finals or something to get the numbers down to 30 of the toughest.
just my opinion...shane

[POS]

5 places for new comers isn't a lot. When we were starting to compete we had trouble getting in as we were not well known, and the comps we do normally have 40 plus places, so 5 is jack sh!t. Good luck to the people trying to get in, you will need it.

THANKS

Read what Mads said :
The next 10 picked from all entrants will be sponsors picks
The next 5 picked will be TTC comitte

To me this means ANY competitor that entered will have a chance to be picked by the sponsors and also another chance to be picked by the committee a total of 15 chances for new comers not 5.
Then if that fails get the internet vote another 5 competitors.


.
They could have put a little more thought into the total selection process!

The next 10 picked from all entrants will be sponsors picks!!!!

ARB- they would not pick me or sam as niether of us run ARB air-locker (can you imagine that,If they did pick us and we WON not using an AIR-LOCKER)

This goes for a lot of the other companies sponsoring the event!

If you take a engineering shop that builds rigs or just modifies 4wd's then they would most likly enter one of thier customers trucks as that would be advertising for them, they certainly wouldn't enter a backyard built RIG!!!

Maybe there is a sponsor out there that really wants to see a better COMPITION with BETTER RIGS and they may just want to see better driving to promote the sport!!!

[planb]

what makes you think the sponsors are going to pick less than capable trucks from a pool of potentially new entrants ?