defenders no more?

[110 TUFF]

went to my local dealer today to get a price on a 130 cab chassi for a new work truck. to my supprise he tells me rover australia has stoped selling the 110 utes, 130 cab chassis, 130 crecab style side and the 90. so all u can get is a 110 wagon which is going back to the old colours red, green , blue and white no metalics and with the old white painted roof for all and a a 130 crew cab with no tray or style side. i had my hart set on a big trayed 130.

now thinking of gettiung the 130 crew cab and slipping another axle under it and stretching it a bit so i can still have the big ass tray plus seat 4 people!

Drew

[stuee]

They just brought the 90 across so I doubt they wont not be selling it. Maybe its just the dealer you went to. If you get the 130 and put another axle under it make it 6x6 like the army ones. That would rock. Proly best to just get one second hand though as I'm sure your warranty would be void with another axle added.

I think the models still available are the
130 crew-cab chassis
130 crew cab pickup
110 wagon (extreme variant only)
90 wagon (extreme variant only)

[110 TUFF]

Nope 100 % sure on this. have spoken to 3 different dealers today. they all said the cant sell the 90 over here so the head guys r scrappin it. supposably there is only 29 new 90's left in the country 8 in queensland.

130 crew cab is not going to be sold with the style side any more because every one take them off to put a tray on them. so 130 is only going to come in a crew cab chassis. they told me there is no such thing as an extreme anymore and they dont come with the side steps and bull bar as they preouvsly did.

yeah would love to make it a six by six with lokers allround! going to phone around tomorrow.

drew

[stuee]

thats f*cked. Suppose the defenders slowly dieing anyway. Keep everyone posted on the progress if you go ahead with this poject.

[110 TUFF]

I hear ya. was majorly disapointed! wanted a 130 tray back. will keep ya posted.

anyone got any ideas i what i should do with regards to the 6x6 setup? would it be better to have a coil set up or go to leaves?
any suggestions?

Drew.

[PeterO]

Hey Drew
I had the same response from a LR / Ford Dealer when I asked for a new 130 cab chassis. I was more than just a bit what made it worse was I had to settle for a new Land Cruiser instead what a heap of S@#@. Took all the fun out of working in the bush. The dealer told me Ford had stopped bringing them in because they outsold their F250 as a heavy ute and they also stopped bringing in F150 because they outsold the local Falcon tray body ute. The writting is on the wall for LR. A sad end to an era for a fantastic work horse in the bush.
Peter

[ISUZUROVER]

For those that want a 130 single cab, why not buy a good second hand one, there are a lot around?

This news is a real bugger though, but once they removed the salisbury from the Defender I wasn't planning to buy a new one anyway.

[GURU]

*cry*

so wanted to get a 90 (second hand) in the future...no luck if there is only 29 in Aust.

oh well I'll just keep building 100" defenders and be happy with the best wheelbase

[daddylonglegs]

[quote="110 TUFF"]I hear ya. was majorly disapointed! :cry: wanted a 130 tray back. will keep ya posted.

anyone got any ideas i what i should do with regards to the 6x6 setup? would it be better to have a coil set up or go to leaves?
any suggestions?

Drew.[/quote]
The LT230 transfercase cannot be configured to have a power take off that gives both high and low range for 6x6 drive. Only the 4 speed LT95 gearbox/transfercase can do this and that is what all OZ military Parentie trucks are fitted with.
bill.

[110 TUFF]

thanks bill, didnt know that. they want approx 30K to turn my 130 in to 6x6. i didnt want to spend that sought of money but it would be awesome.

13K to slip a lazy under it, but am concerned about draging an extra axle on the beach as this is where the truck will spend 90% of its life. Any thoughts on a lazy bill?

was considering just lengthening the truck , pushing the axle back further, so that i can run a big tray. this will eliminate a lazy( which im not keen on ) and save me a lot of money. they want approx 5 -6 K to strecth it.

landrover tell me that in the UK they sell a 147 inch wheelbase crew cab.

Drew.

[uninformed]

Hey Drew
The dealer told me Ford had stopped bringing them in because they outsold their F250 as a heavy ute and they also stopped bringing in F150 because they outsold the local Falcon tray body ute. The writting is on the wall for LR. A sad end to an era for a fantastic work horse in the bush.
Peter

hey pete, this sounds like the usual bullshit dealers will tell. NEVER believe them. i doubt that ford usa, owner of the premier auto group; aston martin, volvo, jaguar and landrover, would have any impact on landrover australia's choices to bring/cut models. ford australia is just an on seller and not that tied up with ford usa. i was told by Bruce Lynton landrover in the mid/late ninties that the "90" was no longer being produced, and after i told him they were still available in the US and UK, his reply was, no you are wrong i've just been to the factory.

[ISUZUROVER]

thanks bill, didnt know that. they want approx 30K to turn my 130 in to 6x6. i didnt want to spend that sought of money but it would be awesome.

13K to slip a lazy under it, but am concerned about draging an extra axle on the beach as this is where the truck will spend 90% of its life. Any thoughts on a lazy bill?

was considering just lengthening the truck , pushing the axle back further, so that i can run a big tray. this will eliminate a lazy( which im not keen on ) and save me a lot of money. they want approx 5 -6 K to strecth it.

landrover tell me that in the UK they sell a 147 inch wheelbase crew cab.

Drew.

You should be able to get the stretch done cheaper than that. A mate in the Brisbane LR club got a truck place to stretch his 110" ute to a 130" ute. I recall it cost him about $2K drive in drive out with mod plate.

If you want to carry lots of weight and not go offroad then a lazy axle conversion may be a benefit, but the 130 single cab already has a 1.5 tonne payload capacity doesn't it?

If you are stretching the truck I would laminate the front and rear axle housings.

[daddylonglegs]

A lazy axle may work reasonably well if you suspended it with air bags.
when you need extra bite from the drive axle you could deflate the air bags on the lazy. This only works within the range of your rear interaxle articulation.
If you left the drive axle at 110"wb, and stretched the rear of the chassis so that you could fit another drive axle, about 39 inches behind ,you could rig up a 6x6 drive by fitting a centre pto to the LT230 tranfercase with a driveshaft running to a second LT230 to drive the rearmost axle. You would need to arrange the shift linkage so that both T/cases were always in the same range. this is fresh out of my head tonight, so in a day or three I may be able to nut out the basic layout and elaborate further.
Bill

[ISUZUROVER]

A lazy axle may work reasonably well if you suspended it with air bags.
when you need extra bite from the drive axle you could deflate the air bags on the lazy. This only works within the range of your rear interaxle articulation.
If you left the drive axle at 110"wb, and stretched the rear of the chassis so that you could fit another drive axle, about 39 inches behind ,you could rig up a 6x6 drive by fitting a centre pto to the LT230 tranfercase with a driveshaft running to a second LT230 to drive the rearmost axle. You would need to arrange the shift linkage so that both T/cases were always in the same range. this is fresh out of my head tonight, so in a day or three I may be able to nut out the basic layout and elaborate further.
Bill

Bill I remember seeing a conversion where a salisbury was modified to allow a drive-through system/shaft to power the rearmost axle. So then you always have permanent drive to both back wheels with no cenre diff. Not the best system for tyre wear but it would be simple.

[daddylonglegs]

Ben, I have never seen a Salisbury modified in that way although I did personally do one many years ago on which I bolted a chain case to and was going to use the Morse chain and sprockets from a Ford Bronco transfercase. I went off the idea when I heard that the 6x6 Toyota Landcruiser tour buses with similar chain drive power dividers suffered chronic overheating of the differential/power divider on the middle axle. The Landrover Sandringham 6 conversions of 20 odd years ago used a Rover diff in the middle axle modified as throughdrive for the Salisbury rearmost axle. I think there was some form of limited slip interaxle differential built into the throughdrive geartrain, but all the expensive re-engineering on a weak Rover diff would be a waste of money IMHO. I also recall that Ashcroft transmissions used to sell a gear driven drop box power divider that somehow bolted on to the middle axle for 6x6 conversions.

Bill.

[PeterO]

hey pete, this sounds like the usual bullshit dealers will tell. NEVER believe them. i doubt that ford usa, owner of the premier auto group; aston martin, volvo, jaguar and landrover, would have any impact on landrover australia's choices to bring/cut models. ford australia is just an on seller and not that tied up with ford usa. i was told by Bruce Lynton landrover in the mid/late ninties that the "90" was no longer being produced, and after i told him they were still available in the US and UK, his reply was, no you are wrong i've just been to the factory.

Might be so but this dealership has been selling LR for a long time and only picked up ford a few years ago besides Ford USA decides on the F trucks comming into Aus and Ford Aust is as you say just the onseller.
Any way none of this changes the fact I am stuck with new TOJO's from now on. Cheers Peter

[phippsey]

That is bull$hit.

I can't believe they are stopping Defenders! They are releasing the new model in 2006?

My old man's had an Extreme for three years now and it's been excellent. Reliable, efficient and bloody good off road - while the on road handling is excellent (though the ride isn't!:D) (until it was rolled and written off two weeks ago - not by me:D)

Overlander just reviewed the Extreme vs GU Patrol, and found in favour of the Defender!:D

LR was starting to get somewhere with the Extreme, ABS, ETC, etc.

They should scrap the 110 and just have the 130 cab chassis, 110 Extreme and 130 Cab Chassis. That would make more sense!

DAMN FORD!#$^%#%^&

It furthers my HATE of FORDS.

[vladtepes]

thats f*cked.

I was gonna say that, but Stuee is much more eloquent than I would have been.....

LRA Bastards

[110 TUFF]

yeah its bad news i know but they did say that rover australia can change there minds at any time. austral rover told me they have done this many times before and wouldnt be suprised if they bring the utes back in a couple of years.

creative conversions in brisbane said they could do a lazy set up run off airbags that allow 300mm of travel for about 13K got me interested but am unsure about pulling an undriven axle up soft sandy beach tracks.

Drew

[cols110]

It probably all comes down to economics, as the extreme is a bargin for what it is compared to a troopie, but to sell it at that price which is 15-20K AUD cheaper than in the UK, not to mention deducting shipping cost, LR must be doing some heavy discounting, and with the way the OZ dollar has climbed against the pound in the last 12-18months its probably not worth it for them. If they increased their price so as to make a profit they would probably loose their customers to Toyota anyway.

It seems as they are now going down yuppie street where they can compete head to head with the japs with the new Disco, RR and the new RR sports when it comes out. The poor old defender probably is`nt worth their while, which is a real shame as they are going to loose their roots to some piece of plastic.

[daddylonglegs]

I have held back on bashing the Defender in this thread up to now, but it must be said that by almost any criteria (engineering, build quality,secondary safety,ergonomics, durability, fitness for task etc)all Defenders since the introduction of the 300Tdi are truly horrible vehicles when compared to their direct competition and the series deserves to die.
Of course the blame for systematically downgrading what was potentially a world beating vehicle lies squarely on the shoulders of LandRover management and the ineptitude of Rovers engineering design team, greatly assisted by their penny pinching accounting dept and disinterested workforce. I for one will not be sorry to see the LandRover Defender fade away .
Bill.

[GURU]

LR should take some advice from the Santana.... Its a heaps beeter truck except for leaf springs, fit the coils and you would have a better rig than a fender.

they have the shape similar to a defender, bigger windscreen, more airodynamic, better front lights (twin) wider body so more room inside stronger drive train and bigger motor

[phippsey]

... it must be said that by almost any criteria (engineering, build quality,secondary safety,ergonomics, durability, fitness for task etc)... when compared to their direct competition and the series deserves to die..

Well, I don't know about that in all fairness.

Defender technology is up-to the minute - ETC, ABS, EMS, etc.

As for firness for task, what other vehicle can you compare it to? The Troopie is the only vehicle that can even come close - and it doesn't have any of the specs of a defender, nor does it have forward facing seats of doors!

As for durability, LR cops a lot of flack. But I might add this. The British SAS can chose any vehicle they want for their operations - anything. They choose 110 LR's.

The Australian Army. Choice? Defender Td5s.

UN - LR, not to mention many other world armies and South African mining companies.

I agree, there is no comparision of a Defender to others - they just do not stack up! However, I feel the Defender would be better served by a low-tech, low tourque engine. That's what was great about the Isuzu.

[daddylonglegs]

Sorry Phipsy but the choice of the Australian Army are not Defender TD5's but Izuzu powered, LT95 4 speed geared, Salisbury rear diffed, AEU2522 CV jointed LandRovers. In other words the same specification as a 1985 110. That IMHO was the last time that LandRover were semi serious about building competitive working 4wd vehicles of reasonable quality.I have also heard but cannot confirm at short notice that the British forces fleet are 300tdi powered not TD5's due to reliability concerns with the latter. And anyway the British forces do not have a good track record when it comes to equipment selection. Many foreign armies that formerly used LandRovers it seems have switched to Mercedes G Wagons or license produced versions of them by different names, if you regularly watch news footage of European peace keeping forces activities in the various hot spots around the globe.
Bill.

[Micka]

I have to agree with Bill.

The Defender, as much as I love mine, is an excercise in how to f*ck up a really good idea. I have finally decided to get rid of mine.

It would have looked good with a 4" lift and 35" simex though.

Micka.

[uninformed]

bill, i think the choice of the 300tdi for the military may have had something to do with "supressing" the electronics on the td5 as not to interfear with radio etc. landrover wouldn't do it.
serg. drew, there are a couple of 130 utes in the trading post, one has a maxi rear locker and the other has heavy duty rear axles and drive flanges.
serg

[cols110]

Yep British army has 300TDI, and whats more you can still buy brand new ROW 300TDI defenders, A bloke on LRE just had one shipped down to the Falklands.

It has a TD5 chassis, with a TDI in it.

[110 TUFF]

serg, i know the guy with the 130 rear axles, lokka, and flanges. i did see it for sale in the trading post. in my eyes a defender is still a top truck in comparison to the majority of other vechicles around its still the only 4x4 at the end of the day that i can just grab the garden hose and wash it all out with out worrying.

even with its weakness these can all be over come to make it a far better truck. i dont belive there is a more capable 4x4 in standard form then a defender.

Bill, i do endevour to get my hands on a county at some stage. and well and truly belive these are a better truck off the self then a 300 TDi. my mate just traded a Good condition 1988 model lt95, 3.9 for a new prado. they gave him 5K trade for it. it was a beauty, and had about 180K on the clock. i nearly cried when i found out.

Drew

[110 TUFF]

Oh, thought id mention that kamp kerr army barracks up at tin can bay have heaps of civi spec 130 and 110 TD5's running around. have seem them plenty of times.

Bill, had a chat to a guy who builds 6x6's in NSW the other day (6x6 Australia) very interesting. if i had a easy 30 grand lying around i would jump at it. it runs around as a full time 6x6 on road, runs coils allround, has massive wheel travel ( 2 - 3 times that of a standard defender rear ). looks unstopable. he emailed me some pics, on full twist the truck is sitting almost level, very impresive. he runs a triangulated 3 link, one leading a arm and one following a arm on the rear ala rover set up.

drew.

[phippsey]

It would have looked good with a 4" lift and 35" simex though.

Micka.

JESUS! A 4in lift on a Defender, and people say I'm mad to have a 4in lift on a Disco!

Defenders are like 4in higher to start with.

----

The Australian Army does now use Td5, since the end of the Perentie project two years ago (110 Isuzu). I can remember reading about it in some army/navy newspaper.

I agree, the Isuzu is a good choice, but not a public winner.

Micka, what drama's have you had?