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There seems to be a bit of confusion between ,..and the ability of both......ground clearance and articulation...
All things equal....A 4 inch suspention lift will give an .IFS vehicle 4 inches more ground clearance at the front.....It willgive a live axle vehicle absolutly no more ground clearance because the diff housing doesnt rise....giving ..IFS..an advantage in some situations..EG..very soft sand, mud etc.......BUT IT GIVES a live axle much more....articulation....which gives it the advantage in cross axle situations...
Its a shame I coudnt find the ...thread... on THAILAND!s IFS army vehicles. ..they are something special ( mitsu...tritan ) masive ground clearance and huge tires...
garyinoz QUOTE:The point I was making is that IFS have varying amounts of clearance and basically fixed travel vs fixed clearance and variable flex of beam axles, and that they require different driving styles. It is not a matter of being able to jump out of one into the other and adoptng the same strategies. I was using my own vehicle to demontrate a point as I already had the figures for it.
ALSO:and also has the ability to increase the clearance momentarily (in my case up to about 17" -> equal to 44" tyres!) by the addition of a bit of right foot.
I think never actually knowing how much clearance you have could be dissasterous. Not to mention a pain in the arse.
LIKE Oh am I going to clear that rock in the middle of the track?
Oh i know ill accellerate that will help me clear!
CRUNCH der: wheres all that oil coming from?
DR Frankenstine wrote:I think never actually knowing how much clearance you have could be dissasterous. Not to mention a pain in the arse.
As with any vehicle after driving it for a while you get to know its downsides and upsides and drive accordingly. You also get a feel for where things are around and beneath it and what your suspension is doing.
IFS are for the beach, general outback dirt road touring, and the bitumen road and thats all. Thats fine if that's what you do but they are not for seriouse terain.
???How many ifs owners have owned a live axle???
???How many live axle owners have owned a IFS???
I know Ive had an IFS and would not go back, well maybe when i'm an old man
a mate of mine traded his older beam hilux on a IFS 3.0l hilux! He used it offroad a few times and then spent thousands of dollars converting it to beam axle. He can now fit on his 36" super swampers
bruiser wrote:IFS are for the beach, general outback dirt road touring, and the bitumen road and thats all. Thats fine if that's what you do but they are not for seriouse terain.
The heading on this page reads (...pros and cons of IFS.????) ...... meaning..... ..... All information greatly excepted
Remember this.....A little bit of education is on burden to carry..
I am shore we all have our own stories to tell of why we prefer one system over the other.. but I am not real sure about the (...REAL SERIOUS STUFF...)..... does geting stuck in a rut due to less wheel travel be any more serious than being bogged to the axles in powdery sand behind Indian Head on Frazer.. with a burnt out clutch......VERY serious and very EXPENSIVE.
Coil spring live axles are very good....but just stand in front of a 60 series cruser and take a good look at how much ground clearance you dont have with under slung leaf springs ...... BUT... dont get me wrong.... I think the ..60 series is one of the most honest and solid 4x4s going... but for me now after ...rockies. forruners .mq,s and 60 series the PAJ.. fits the bill just fine.
bruiser wrote:IFS are for the beach, general outback dirt road touring, and the bitumen road and thats all. Thats fine if that's what you do but they are not for seriouse terain.
The first pic in the link, Bitsa's Jabber, now has a SAS conversion.
I'm not gonna try to argue that IFS can keep up with beam axles in all terrain. But a well set up IFS vehicle will surprise a lot of the "beam axle" brigade. You need to be a VERY hardcore tourer to find somewhere that a current model Paj (OK, they come with traction control, and give it some real tyres!) won't go.
Most people on this board will find IFS a limitation. For "normal" people it won't make that much difference off road, and they do drive a shit-load better on road. Those that want to argue otherwise must have had a crap IFS vehicle and a good live axle vehicle - 'cause basic physics (and every manufacturer of 2wd passenger vehicles in the world) disagrees with you.
100 series Cruisers must be crap then (I agree) as mine broke off a lower control arm due to corrugations and the front wheel and suspension components fell off totally ripping off brake lines etc. Luckily i was only doing 60 km/h otherwise I mightn't be writing this thread. Overall a $12,000 repair and rescue bill due largely to the location of the incident and the cost of Toyota parts. Never had this problem with the 5 live axle Patrols I owned. Explains why the 100 series was traded on a GUIII immediately afterward. Also dispute your article about the capabilities of the Pajero as in the yard where my 100 was trucked to was a 2004 Pajero with a very similar problem. Also explains why the Oodnadatta police drive live axle Patrols and Cruisers as do most outback residents and travellers!!!!!!!!!!!!
patrolmad wrote:100 series Cruisers must be crap then (I agree) as mine broke off a lower control arm due to corrugations and the front wheel and suspension components fell off totally ripping off brake lines etc. Luckily i was only doing 60 km/h otherwise I mightn't be writing this thread. Overall a $12,000 repair and rescue bill due largely to the location of the incident and the cost of Toyota parts. Never had this problem with the 5 live axle Patrols I owned. Explains why the 100 series was traded on a GUIII immediately afterward. Also dispute your article about the capabilities of the Pajero as in the yard where my 100 was trucked to was a 2004 Pajero with a very similar problem. Also explains why the Oodnadatta police drive live axle Patrols and Cruisers as do most outback residents and travellers!!!!!!!!!!!!
Was your 100 series the one pictured in the Letter part of 4wd Monthly?
patrolmad wrote:100 series Cruisers must be crap then (I agree) as mine broke off a lower control arm due to corrugations and the front wheel and suspension components fell off totally ripping off brake lines etc. Luckily i was only doing 60 km/h otherwise I mightn't be writing this thread. Overall a $12,000 repair and rescue bill due largely to the location of the incident and the cost of Toyota parts. Never had this problem with the 5 live axle Patrols I owned. Explains why the 100 series was traded on a GUIII immediately afterward. Also dispute your article about the capabilities of the Pajero as in the yard where my 100 was trucked to was a 2004 Pajero with a very similar problem. Also explains why the Oodnadatta police drive live axle Patrols and Cruisers as do most outback residents and travellers!!!!!!!!!!!!
Was your 100 series the one pictured in the Letter part of 4wd Monthly?
If it was yours, did you end up getting any compensation from yota for the crappy design with no bottom bumpstop
FJ62 Crusier GM V8 Diesel Lockers 33 MTs/35 117 extremes
Macarthur District 4WD Club http://www.macarthur4wdclub.com.au
I believe the Gen 3 Pajeros suffer the same problem - the shockabsorber is the bump stop for droop, which is the silliest idea I've heard for some time. Earlier models have top and bottom stops on the chassis.
I did see that but it wasn't mine. Mine looked exactly the same with the only difference being mine still had original suspension so they could not pass the blame onto ARB. Nice job hey? No compo at all. They put the blame onto me instead saying that the vehicle is not designed for off road work. This has been their cry with many 100 IFS owners I have spoken to. I hope Nissan keep their head together and continue to produce the live axle.
patrolmad wrote:I did see that but it wasn't mine. Mine looked exactly the same with the only difference being mine still had original suspension so they could not pass the blame onto ARB. Nice job hey? No compo at all. They put the blame onto me instead saying that the vehicle is not designed for off road work. This has been their cry with many 100 IFS owners I have spoken to. I hope Nissan keep their head together and continue to produce the live axle.
Nice one yota How the hell do you sell a Landcruiser after all the ads and say "its not designed for off road" I would be having a talk to a leagle beagle and getting this out to as many current and protential 4wd owners as possible
FJ62 Crusier GM V8 Diesel Lockers 33 MTs/35 117 extremes
Macarthur District 4WD Club http://www.macarthur4wdclub.com.au
patrolmad wrote:I did see that but it wasn't mine. Mine looked exactly the same with the only difference being mine still had original suspension so they could not pass the blame onto ARB. Nice job hey? No compo at all. They put the blame onto me instead saying that the vehicle is not designed for off road work. This has been their cry with many 100 IFS owners I have spoken to. I hope Nissan keep their head together and continue to produce the live axle.
Nice one yota How the hell do you sell a Landcruiser after all the ads and say "its not designed for off road" I would be having a talk to a leagle beagle and getting this out to as many current and protential 4wd owners as possible
Tell Scruby, he could do us all a favour, not to mention embarrass the hell out of Toyota
George Carlin, an American Comedian said; "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise that half of them are stupider than that".
Hey i love my jack, ifs and all, its got good artic in the rear solid which helps heaps , top and bottom bumpstops, manual hubs so i dont flog out cvs and boots . Some early 90's t/d jack chassis had faulty welds around the steer box mount, nothing to do with ifs, there are no major probs with the jacks, the ARB kits are for the toyo's plastic front arms. yep toyo ifs ia an absolute discrace.
Hey i guess all those victories in aus safari / finke etc in modified and showroom class mean the jacks are fairly soft
I own an IFS lux, not to blow my own horn, but i'd say its one of the tuffest around. I can say it satisfies all my offroad desires. I could also very safely say that if it was compared to a live axle lux with the same mods as mine, the live axle wouldnt go anywhere tha mine couldn't.
Don't know what these photo's are supose to prove.
To me it shows exactly what hapens when you lift a ifs vehicle to accomodate larger rubber.
You end up with zero flex and airbourne wheels left right and centre. Locckers can help overcome this but not always. Youve still got loss of traction.
( the wheels in these photos are lucky to have flexed an inch.)
bruiser wrote:Don't know what these photo's are supose to prove. To me it shows exactly what hapens when you lift a ifs vehicle to accomodate larger rubber. You end up with zero flex and airbourne wheels left right and centre. Locckers can help overcome this but not always. Youve still got loss of traction. ( the wheels in these photos are lucky to have flexed an inch.)
took me a while to read this whole thread.... was funny actually....... because the S/A guys will not and cannot be told any different to what they firmly believe. Utemad said it right when he said people know the limitations of their fourbys and drive accordingly. Having said that, lock the front diff in an IFS vehicle and it will go most places... and i mean MOST places a S/A will go. And lets not confuse the weakness in the hilux IFS front diff with everybody else...... i don't know of many other IFS vehicles having front diff problems asside from the hilux. My Deo has about 4" of lift overall, body and suspension, i think about 5" in the rear making it "almost" as high as a standard hilux a diff lock in the front, and IFS or not, it goes a lot of places that people say "you can't take an IFS fourby there!!" High N Mighty has seen my car in action..... make the ass end flex, put a diff lock in the front, and you'll go much much further than the S/A boys give you credit for. I often lift a wheel, but i can still do the track, flex is nice, but it's not everything. Sure, if you want to do extreme off-road stuff, then you can get the height out of a S/A vehicle..... but a lot of rough stuff can also be done by just about all fourbys....... it's not always the car, but the loose nut behind the wheel
There is no "I" in Team, but there are 5 in Individual Brilliance
..they are something special ( mitsu...tritan ) masive ground clearance and huge tires... 
..... All information greatly excepted 
Umm 
How the hell do you sell a Landcruiser after all the ads and say "its not designed for off road" I would be having a talk to a leagle beagle and getting this out to as many current and protential 4wd owners as possible 
to all the knockers BEEN TOLD LATELY 
