Are Bigger tires genuinely better

[muddyperils]

All in All, My opinion is with majority being < I only went to 33" then 35" because of the same problems, getting hung up on diffs, so anything bigger than a 35" tyre is being a bit MEAN, but if you run the same trail with 31's a couple of times, in rather wet circumstances, without an appropriate maintanance program installed it will require a larger tyre.

It is well taken care of by the N.P.W.S for the 'AVERAGE JOE' to take the family out to numerous places and give them a reasonable adventure, but then the SERIOUS guys like the wash out and errosion taking place to add extra adventure to the environment they are traversing...... then they put a ruddy gate on it. I have always searched for the IDEAL camping area's where there are noo bloomin COMMODORES parked next to me, and it is becoming quite difficult to achieve.

So after all the FUSS'N about, I will use a maximum of 35" tyre personally for the 'just in case I need em' senario, and shopuldn't think a tyre larger would be necessary but ofcoarse thats only 'MY HORSE'..

[Bitsamissin]

This bloke didn't worry about a locked gate....................
I don't know what fines/penalties they have in the US but I wouldn't do it.
With no limits on tyre size you can't blame blokes with running large rubber but it does suggest a lack of care for track erosion particularly on muddy tracks.
I've seen guys with chains fitted with 31"s at Toolangi

[DamTriton]

Back to the original point of the thread....Larger tyres when properly aired down should cause less damage to the tracks by having a larger footprint to find a grappling point, and lower pressure on the track surface. The problem is ppl not airing down, requiring masses of right foot to be able to get any sort of forward movement happening on loose surfaces, digging deeper holes that eventually require bigger tyres.

Taylors Rd last W/E, me on 31's aired down, no lockers, LSD rear. Case in point to whoever was there............ (Stuck once on the first run of four in total, on an area that the vehicle in front got stuck on. I was testing the Secondairs so deliberatly took it slowly, a bit too slowly as it turned out.)

[-Richo-]

Many tracks that used to be run with ease with small tyres and moderate lifts in the old age extreme are now inpassable without lockers, big tyres and lifts, party due to more trafic digging deeper ruts, and some due to weather conditions and poorly maintained areas.

Trafic is increased in areas due closing areas, areas developing and more people getting into 4x4s

4wdrivers need to get serious about supporting our relevent authoritys by all joining clubs recognied by the asociations for that state, and getting on committees and getting involved and interested in the futrure of our sport.

Educating the goverment is our only chance of survival, and we are the only ones that can do that. We alway whinge that minorities win the debates, but that is only due to them the only who lobby the governments.

the other issue is the few people out there who feel like they don't need to respect others, pick up there rubish and generaly treat the bush with respect. If someone is out there on a walk and 1 in 100 4wd's they come across hoons past gives them the bird and throws an empty stubbie at them, then the 99 others are forgoten. We all must set the right example, and tell off anyone we know or see not doing the right thing. The same thing applys in the city.

People see big 4bs as young hoons cars, and this was enforced on me when some one hit my GQ when my mum was driving it....the guy that hit her jumped out and ran up yelling ...I quote...to my mum "you stupid young c***, get that oversized heap of s*** out of my way" end quote apparently when my mum got out he went red and looked the other way.....made his GF exchange all the details.

My 2c anyway

Well said.

I think the way to go is like whats happening with menai. Clubs do clean ups etc and get the privelage to drive there. Menai has so many tracks getting in there it unfeasable to gate it off, but for other areas with only a couple of tracks going in, gate it off to stop dead shit theives dumping cars and people dumping rubbish in there and give access to clubs that help out with maintaining the place. Rubbish and stolen cars are a big issue with these areas as well as 4wd's and motobikes chewing it up.

If we all were members of clubs etc, got together and did clean ups and general maintenance in the areas we want to drive, this would show how much we love the sport and the respect we have for the areas we drive in. This can only do good for the image of 4wders.

I really cant see what the problem is with people driving 4wd's or riding their bikes in these areas. When you compare the actual tracks being driven on compared to the whole area its a very small percentage, i cannot for the life of me see how its damaging the environment anymore than say new housing developements etc. If we as users of the areas respected them and kept them clean i think it will go a long way.

[Elmo]

just an idea, but how would you go setting up outer limits as an actual club

as opposed to all of us being in various different clubs, i'd still stay in mine as well tho

then like now, we could do something about it, as opposed to all of us individually having to take it back to our own clubs, which should already know about it anyway,

just an idea, i reckon an outerlimits4x4 club could be a good thing

[MARKx4]

just an idea, but how would you go setting up outer limits as an actual club

as opposed to all of us being in various different clubs, i'd still stay in mine as well tho

then like now, we could do something about it, as opposed to all of us individually having to take it back to our own clubs, which should already know about it anyway,

just an idea, i reckon an outerlimits4x4 club could be a good thing

Thats a gret idea. We already organise trips like club, if we do that we could get access to places like menni and spanish steps. Im sure it would be alot of work, but we all know we are willing to pay up for good causes. It would be interesting for the top guys to look into and let us know. We can do all trip reports, trip organising ang club mags all here.

[-Scott-]

I see two major contributors to the problem.

The first is those who see nothing wrong with wheel spin. I prefer to think of losing traction as losing, but lots of people just floor the throttle to see what happens. Occasionally it'll get them through, but most of the time it just erodes the track.

The second is those who don't believe in track building. On OL this appears to be sacrilege, as it detracts from "the challenge." Driving it as it is may be fine in a competition environment, but while we're on public land, "drive it" and wheel spin are working against ALL of us.

Perhaps, in the interest of keeping our sport alive, we need to stop when we get wheel spin, and either try a different line, or do a little road building.

Ask yourself what you would prefer - a slightly less challenging track, or a closed track? We know where our favourite past-time is heading. Will we do anything about it?

Scott

[-Richo-]

Im all for the club idea, but i dont think its so simple. The problem with a lot of clubs (not just 4wd, any clubs) is that few people actually organise and many sit around waiting for someone to organise things. Also i think you have to get acreditation or something so it becomes an "official" club and therefore gain access to locked up areas.

We need people to take up the initiative to do all the mundane paper work etc etc that no one wants to do, and im sure the guys running this site have enough on their plates. Maybe someone with experience running a club could fill us in on the nitty gritty.

Im all for it but it requires people to participate, and that doesnt mean just going wheelin.

Dunno why people keep the foot on the pedal when they are spinning, no traction means your not going anywhere but down, small things amuse small minds i guess. As far as track building is concerned for me, why? Im talking about cleaning places up, garbage etc not grate it all flat, that takes away all the fun or do you mean rock stacking? Just drive the tracks as is i recon, if the area needs access by the water board or electricity then maybe it shouldnt be 4wd area then, im talking about places that are just tracks in the bush ie. menai, appin etc.

[bogged]

just an idea, but how would you go setting up outer limits as an actual club

it was discussed few yrs back, but got shit canned.

theres about 3 odd clubs being setup from people on the board in Vic alone at moment.

I dont think we need more clubs, just better organisation.

[bogged]

The organisation is run by volunteers. Why don't you spent more time doing your bit and less time on here complaining about what they aren't doing.

You seem lots of mouth too, and not the first time either... Don't see you putting your hand up for shit are you?

I'm already in a club waiting for the association to say "ITS TIME TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED"..

The club is sub-branch of the association, the club doesnt think for itself, the 4wdvic say fart, and they do.. fuckin pathetic really, but when was the last time you heard them doing anything to try and curb the anti4wd shit happening everywhere at the moment?

You can see threads on nearly every offroad/4wding forum asking what they are doing about it. Yet you never hear anything from them... Not a peep.

Oh and not all of the 4wd association are volunteers, so maybe check your facts.

[Tas_Dean]

People see big 4bs as young hoons cars, and this was enforced on me when some one hit my GQ <snip> My 2c anyway

True, but I don't know why. Most "young hoons" can't afford modded 4by's.

Cheers, Dean

[bogged]

Most "young hoons" can't afford modded 4by's.

You are joking arent you?

Yea they spent their last $30,000 - 40,000 on an on drugs skyline instead.

[Tiny]

Most "young hoons" can't afford modded 4by's.

You are joking arent you?

Yea they spent their last $30,000 - 40,000 on an on drugs skyline instead.

just looks at the skylines rex's evo lancers etc with all the goods on them......but on the other hand many young people will by a POS lifted lux or something to just drive around the city in, and the thing is super unsafe

[80UTE]

With BIG tyres, lockers, good long travel suspension and good power you can drive were guys with 33" ripped it up with out disturbing the surface. Its the guys with the small road pattern tyres with no traction aids no recovery gear that are creating all the probs.

GO THE BIG TYRES

Wally

[Davidh]

I'm with Wally on this one.

When I had 32" muds we had to spin and snatch our way up Victoria Range Tk in Toolangi, even an 80 series on 35" muds had to winch one section.

Then with 35" Simex and a rear locker, I could just cruise up with very minimal tyre spin.

Unfortuantely there's always going to be people with small road tyres that want to play on the rougher tracks, and end up wheel spinning and digging up the tracks.

[bogged]

I'm with Wally on this one.

When I had 32" muds we had to spin and snatch our way up Victoria Range Tk in Toolangi, even an 80 series on 35" muds had to winch one section.

But if we all had 33s the ruts would only be 33's deep... specially if its after they have regraded the road or maintained it to smooth and as it happens it gradually gets worse as we all know... But if it was less for them to repair, it could be a good thing?

Unfortuantely there's always going to be people with small road tyres that want to play on the rougher tracks, and end up wheel spinning and digging up the tracks.

Sadly we are ALL in agreement on this one. or the point and shoot drivers - point at obsticle, adn floor it.

[bogged]

I'll word that better...

You say 35's and locker you crawled up Vic Range.. Would you have done it on 32's and a locker? 33's and a locker? Was it the locker or the hoops that did it?

Driving aids take away the need for skill SOMETIMES. Not sayin in this occasion I mean in general.

I'm thinking that if we are to keep usin the bush, we need to (as someone else said well )REGULATE OURSELVES before they do it for us..

AJ did the Range on tires that are almost AT/HT's in 32 I think he runs. dick cerpeks.. He didnt do the big drop bit at the top (took the chook track), but did the rest...

[GUJohnno]

The organisation is run by volunteers. Why don't you spent more time doing your bit and less time on here complaining about what they aren't doing.

You seem lots of mouth too, and not the first time either... Don't see you putting your hand up for shit are you?

I'm already in a club waiting for the association to say "ITS TIME TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED"..

The club is sub-branch of the association, the club doesnt think for itself, the 4wdvic say fart, and they do.. ***** pathetic really, but when was the last time you heard them doing anything to try and curb the anti4wd shit happening everywhere at the moment?

You can see threads on nearly every offroad/4wding forum asking what they are doing about it. Yet you never hear anything from them... Not a peep.

Oh and not all of the 4wd association are volunteers, so maybe check your facts.

Your kidding about all of this aren't you........??

Michael Coldham (president of FWDVic) has been on the radio numerous times over the last year. I have seen him interviewed on the TV a couple of times as well. Have you ever listened to Stereo 97.4 on Saturdays? They have a one-hour program with all the latest news.
FWDVic managed to get 1200 4WDers to Daylesford last year. Where were you when they said "ITS TIME TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED"..
Since then we have managed to get a Memorandum of Understanding with Parks Vic and the DSE. It is because of this that we now get in early when the reviews such as what is happening at Gembrook at the moment. Ian Lacey has been attending these meetings for the last year!
If it wasn't for the association there would be many more tracks closed. EVERYONE, except for Brian Cox who looks after the phone in the office, are volunteers. Many of whom give up valuable time EVERY month to attend meetings with Parks Vic and DSE. Michael Coldham is a successful lawyer and you could only imagine the hourly rates he would normally be getting whilst donating his time to help the 4WD movement. The committee has no hidden agendas here. They ALL love 4WDing and want to ensure we ALL can continue 4WDing in the future. I have just recently joined the committee in the last few months, and although I have been heavily involved in 4Wding and the Association over the last few years, I have been surprised to see how much time they all put into this.
It may seem that we aren’t doing enough. But we are all trying our best. It’s not easy, and comments like these don’t make it any easier.
It’s all very easy to say what are they doing for us, but what are you doing to help?

[MY45]

I'm with Wally on this one.

When I had 32" muds we had to spin and snatch our way up Victoria Range Tk in Toolangi, even an 80 series on 35" muds had to winch one section.

But if we all had 33s the ruts would only be 33's deep... specially if its after they have regraded the road or maintained it to smooth and as it happens it gradually gets worse as we all know... But if it was less for them to repair, it could be a good thing?

Unfortuantely there's always going to be people with small road tyres that want to play on the rougher tracks, and end up wheel spinning and digging up the tracks.

Sadly we are ALL in agreement on this one. or the point and shoot drivers - point at obsticle, adn floor it.

Well seing as though smaller tires are sounding so good for the environment why dont you go out and buy some 25"'s....mabey we all should, that would make 4wding more fun for all Isnt the reason we would want to "stand up and be counted", so that we can all go 4wding (at differant levels of experiance and size of trucks) and have fun? I learnt to 4b in a ford courier 4x4 (was fun but limiting) but i found building my own truck to a standard that i could try to tackle as many tracks as i could, without damaging tracks ecsesivly *sp. I for one wouldn't want to stand up and be counted to have tire size restrictions placed upon me, but i will once i join a club to gain acces to tracks....i dont mind doing some clean ups for acces to tracks..........


#2 For GO THE BIG TIRES

[Davidh]

I guess it's also a shame that after all the work that everyone puts in to saving our tracks from closure, the government generally makes decisions and passes laws that happen behind everyone's backs.
Those late night parliament sittings that pass the touchy subjects.

Society is to blame, not us 4wd'ers or bike riders!

Maybe Victoria will end up like every other state, and we'll need 4wd parks?

[grimbo]

larger tyres, lockers and more flexible suspension if driven sensibly will have less impact on the environment than small tyres, no lockers and a stiff suspension. larger tyres have less ground pressure, lockers stop wheel spin and a supple suspension allows the tyres to remain in contact giving ech wheel a similar amount of contact pressure.

When you start lifting wheels you are loading up other wheels causing them to spin tearing holes in the ground.

However if the larger tyred etc is driven irresponsibly in conditions like heavy rain or muddy tracks then the damage can be extensive.

Again it comes down to responsible use if we are to continue to enjoy our chosen form of activity

[bogged]

Your kidding about all of this aren't you........??

Michael Coldham (president of FWDVic) has been on the radio numerous times over the last year. I have seen him interviewed on the TV a couple of times as well. Have you ever listened to Stereo 97.4 on Saturdays? They have a one-hour program with all the latest news.

But isnt that talking to the converted? Would be nice to hear some of this out on MMM, Fox, or Something where non 4wders listen to, I guess thats my point. No point telling 4wders that 4wding is fun, and not as bad for the environment as every commercial tele/radio station make it out to be.

FWDVic managed to get 1200 4WDers to Daylesford last year. Where were you when they said "ITS TIME TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED"..

Was it 4wd vic, or the group that was setup (Yahoogroup, cant think of it at the moment).

They ALL love 4WDing and want to ensure we ALL can continue 4WDing in the future.

I dont doubt it, but it needs to get out to the NON4wding people.


[/quote]It may seem that we aren’t doing enough. But we are all trying our best. It’s not easy, and comments like these don’t make it any easier.
It’s all very easy to say what are they doing for us, but what are you doing to help?[/quote]
Getting people to discuss ways we can self regulate before Bracks does (and you see how much he gives a shit about what people think of him - he will act then turn away), or similar ideas.. getting people talking...

[bogged]

I guess it's also a shame that after all the work that everyone puts in to saving our tracks from closure, the government generally makes decisions and passes laws that happen behind everyone's backs.
Those late night parliament sittings that pass the touchy subjects.

Society is to blame, not us 4wd'ers or bike riders!

Maybe Victoria will end up like every other state, and we'll need 4wd parks?

This pretty much sums up what I'm gettin at...

[DFND90]

Interesting debate, i just read the whole thing.

Luckily in my town we have reaally great 4wding of all grades mere minutes away. Im talking literally tens of kilometers of cool track. There are only really a handful of people that regularly use it from what i have observed.
There are a couple of hill climbs that are begining to get very rutted out. They got this way from people attempling them with open diffs and lots of throttle, these same people now have lockers, taller wider tyres and are able to attempt these climbs with much less wheel spin and i have noticed it is far better on the tracks.

Basically my view is i see lack of traction to be the main cause of track erosion where i drive. I know on my crappy 32" tyres i spun a lot now on the 34" jungle trekkers that is greatly reduced.

I dont know what my point is but i dont think it is correct to say bigger tyres ruin the track more than smaller tyres.

[80diesel4play]

I'm with Wally on this one.

When I had 32" muds we had to spin and snatch our way up Victoria Range Tk in Toolangi, even an 80 series on 35" muds had to winch one section.

But if we all had 33s the ruts would only be 33's deep... specially if its after they have regraded the road or maintained it to smooth and as it happens it gradually gets worse as we all know... But if it was less for them to repair, it could be a good thing? ACTUALLY - I'VE SEEN IT - IF WE ALL HAD 33'S - YOUCHEWE IT TO YOUR DIFFS AND THE DRAG/SPIN YOUR WAY OUT - CREATING MORE DAMAGE.

Unfortuantely there's always going to be people with small road tyres that want to play on the rougher tracks, and end up wheel spinning and digging up the tracks.

Sadly we are ALL in agreement on this one. or the point and shoot drivers - point at obsticle, adn floor it.

I was in a car with twin lockers and Simex 35;s LAST Night doing all the good tracks in Toolangi - we crawled up with minimal wheel spin and had a great nights driving - As well as noting that on our way - we SAW YOU Bogged!

Ultimately teh VAWFDC does a heap of work - I'm in 2 clubs and have no drama putting in for track work/helpingout etc - how about we all think before we drive - restrict teh numbers of cars in groups - REMOVE the peopel who want come out in under prepared cars for the tracks so damage is limited.(no skull dragging some tool on 32's when everyone's running 35's???

How come common sense seems to be left behind when peoppel get in teh bush? I run 37's and am just getting lockers nwo - but my car setup allows me to 'walk' up nearly everywhere without chewing everything to pieces. As well as recovering all the tools on 32's all day long...

my $0.02 worth..

Also - GO WALLY!!!!

[Dozoor]

How can people be so ignorant to simple physics, If a vehicle is more capable it simply won,t do the damage in the same place, Looking at this
conversation the piont these people are trying to make is hypocritical to there own belief,s , if they believe in what they are trying to piont out they should be driving vehicles with one wheel drive and scooter tires.

And now for the clincher , 95% of the vehicles fitted with larger then 35" tires , Only get used on tracks a minority of the time, Its the lets go wheeling every weekend people in touring type things that are the majority of traffic on the trails.
Just open your eyes , it may be dark and smelly where your head is but you will be looking at the problem .

[bogged]

As well as noting that on our way - we SAW YOU Bogged!

ya was givin the finger as I came up the road, but y'all didnt see me till ewe was nearly past.. on way home from winery...

[Shorty40]

Sounds like a pack of whingers with no lockers and little tyres

Maybe we should all drive minis, that way the speed bumps at Mcdonalds would be a challenge and we would not need to upset the greenies by ever going off road

Lockers and tyres = No skill What a crock of shit

Also, even if we all ran 29s (or whatever you pussies want ) the ruts would get deeper anyway. It has more to do with traffic volume than bigger tyres

I think some of you need to 'regulate' yourselves to another forum .......................... like www.knittingfornancies.com

BRING AWWN THE BIG TREADS

[GRIMACE]

Sounds like a pack of whingers with no lockers and little tyres

Maybe we should all drive minis, that way the speed bumps at Mcdonalds would be a challenge and we would not need to upset the greenies by ever going off road

Lockers and tyres = No skill What a crock of shit

Also, even if we all ran 29s (or whatever you pussies want ) the ruts would get deeper anyway. It has more to do with traffic volume than bigger tyres

I think some of you need to 'regulate' yourselves to another forum .......................... like www.knittingfornancies.com

BRING AWWN THE BIG TREADS

if your 29s can't handle it, go back to the mall

[-Richo-]

larger tyres, lockers and more flexible suspension if driven sensibly will have less impact on the environment than small tyres, no lockers and a stiff suspension. larger tyres have less ground pressure, lockers stop wheel spin and a supple suspension allows the tyres to remain in contact giving ech wheel a similar amount of contact pressure.

When you start lifting wheels you are loading up other wheels causing them to spin tearing holes in the ground.

However if the larger tyred etc is driven irresponsibly in conditions like heavy rain or muddy tracks then the damage can be extensive.

Again it comes down to responsible use if we are to continue to enjoy our chosen form of activity

Completely and utterly agree on all accounts.