Discussion on Engineering and Tuff Truck

[Wooders]

Jezzuz thats some tea cup storm

The TTC rules as I read them simply say road registration.
Certainly most - no make that ALL - the rigs will be setup in a manner that would not be road legal anyway

our heap in many was is one or the lesser modded rigs and we'll be running things like external beadlocks, swampers, no flares, extra ROP, and even no back seat - if I take it to an engineer like that he'd laugh and at best expect it to be registered as a 2 seater - Besides it's traillered to the event and won't be driven onroad like that.....so it's sorta a silly pont huh?

So was there a question anywhere in the above ramblings

[DaveS3]

Not having a "hardcore" vehicle sometimes isn't because you are whipped or not allowed but because you don't want one or can't afford one. Not everyone needs or want a buggy and not everyone buys them either

I didnt see this bit before....................

I bought my buggy, yes ! You therefore, must be better than me, as you built your rig -- woowoo

You say "think about it before you type" pfffttttt did you think about that one ? You thought you would be clever and have a sly go

I think that it was your turn to take things out of context that time.

I didnt see Grimbos replty in the same way you did, nor do i think it was anyway meant to be offesive or be a sly remark,

As you said -

'Maybe its the way it comes across in print - who knows. It can be taken out of context'

Not trying to have a go, but dont always take this as the worst case.

Dave

[Shorty40]

Not having a "hardcore" vehicle sometimes isn't because you are whipped or not allowed but because you don't want one or can't afford one. Not everyone needs or want a buggy and not everyone buys them either

I didnt see this bit before....................

I bought my buggy, yes ! You therefore, must be better than me, as you built your rig -- woowoo

You say "think about it before you type" pfffttttt did you think about that one ? You thought you would be clever and have a sly go

I think that it was your turn to take things out of context that time.

I didnt see Grimbos replty in the same way you did, nor do i think it was anyway meant to be offesive or be a sly remark,

As you said -

'Maybe its the way it comes across in print - who knows. It can be taken out of context'

Not trying to have a go, but dont always take this as the worst case.

Dave

Sure. I'll accept that if there was any other reason for that comment then

[Shorty40]

I didnt see this bit before....................

I bought my buggy, yes ! You therefore, must be better than me, as you built your rig -- woowoo

You say "think about it before you type" pfffttttt did you think about that one ? You thought you would be clever and have a sly go

Ha Ha you bought your Buggy and you think your better than Jamie cause your not Grimace

PS this thread keeps heading the way it is its going to Chit Chat. There is more Bullshit here than Tech.

Whats wrong with buying a buggy ?

Do you want people to buy the ones Haultech build ??

Come awwwwwn - I never said I was better than Jamie - just not as Grimace Noones as Grimace as Jamie, maybe Grimace, but thats it

I thought this was Chit Chat

[Shorty40]

Jezzuz thats some tea cup storm

The TTC rules as I read them simply say road registration.
Certainly most - no make that ALL - the rigs will be setup in a manner that would not be road legal anyway

our heap in many was is one or the lesser modded rigs and we'll be running things like external beadlocks, swampers, no flares, extra ROP, and even no back seat - if I take it to an engineer like that he'd laugh and at best expect it to be registered as a 2 seater - Besides it's traillered to the event and won't be driven onroad like that.....so it's sorta a silly pont huh?

So was there a question anywhere in the above ramblings

This was kinda my point, in my roundabout, jackass way

We all know that the rigs are not 100% road legal (if i am wrong please report to the local RTA/DOT/Cop shop with your rig and see how you go) but I dont see the need for comments like:

"ohhh that'll never pass angineers"

"you cant do that - its not fair"

"wont somebody please think of the children"

etc etc etc etc

[RUFF]

Whats wrong with buying a buggy ?

Do you want people to buy the ones Haultech build ??

Come awwwwwn - I never said I was better than Jamie - just not as Grimace Noones as Grimace as Jamie, maybe Grimace, but thats it

I thought this was Chit Chat

Nothing i just noticed this cool looking Band Wagon driving buy and thought i might jump on

[Shorty40]

Toot Toot - allllll aboooooard

[daddylonglegs]

[quote="RUFF"][





PS this thread keeps heading the way it is its going to Chit Chat. There is more Bullshit here than Tech.[/quote]

It's your perogitive to move this thread anywhere you like Tony, but while you're at it you might want to have a look at the ''4WD TV News'' thread as well. It's been on ''General Tech'' for months.

[SAWZALL]

My 2 cents...

Biggest tyre legal on Aust roads is a 35 inch. Everything bigger is either not speed rated or Manufacturers recommend wider than a 8 inch rim...

I believe that the only reason for rego is for public liability insurance.

Let the tuff trucks roar and save the engineer/certification/registration talk for trucks that are/need to be driven on the road....which these dont.

Oh and it's alright to "buy" a truck as long as you build on it after you bought it

That is all...........

[TYLER]

haha yea heres my 2 bobs worth, 35's are a good al round size and if ya want nething biger than make a MONSTER TRUCK!!!!!! and yea i agree leave all the cirts for rego not for the tuff trucks cos most everything has to cope wit the extreems of offroading...

[uninformed]

landrover series three one ton's came stock with 900r16s, in there metric form they are 255/100r16 and 36.5 inches tall. michelin makes these and are truck tyres, they were fitted to 6 1/2 inch rims. would these be illegal?
serg

[SAWZALL]

I stand corrected, you can run Michelins truck tyres.....

[bogged]

and 36.5 inches tall. michelin makes these and are truck tyres, they were fitted to 6 1/2 inch rims. would these be illegal?
serg

You may have an issue with grip in the mud, but good for doing dailys Melb - Shepperton on a 8 pallet truck..

[uninformed]

the xzl pattern is not to bad they are a four block tread. a guy is running them in sweden on his 110 and he says they are better than they look, they replaced his swammper Q78's
serg

[Wendle]

i'd be able to get that bastard through the rego system in the ACT on 37 goodyears or michelins, even on the krawlers if they are e-marked. if it handles ok and brakes in a straight line it would even go through with the cut radius arms and the extra link in the front. Engineering costs i would estimate at about $2500 to $3000. the dude here charges $350 per hour for this sort of thing.

[grimbo]

Not having a "hardcore" vehicle sometimes isn't because you are whipped or not allowed but because you don't want one or can't afford one. Not everyone needs or want a buggy and not everyone buys them either

I didnt see this bit before....................

I bought my buggy, yes ! You therefore, must be better than me, as you built your rig -- woowoo

You say "think about it before you type" pfffttttt did you think about that one ? You thought you would be clever and have a sly go

The buying bit was an added bit that was put in the wrong place was supposed to go after the afford bit. i have nothing against buggies but as I said they aren't for everyone. I also never said I was better than you, i don't even know you or most people on this board which is where a lot of these problems stem from, people not knowing how other people communicate which leads to meaning being read in responses

Also I am not on any bandwagon etc I am however on thhe side that allows people to ask legitimate and intelligent questions and not get flamed for it.

[beefa125]

This problem can be solved doing one of either two things

1. Marry a solicitor or doctor

2. Sell drugs

Either way you will have to much cash and u can speand it what ever u want

Beefa

[Shorty40]

Not having a "hardcore" vehicle sometimes isn't because you are whipped or not allowed but because you don't want one or can't afford one. Not everyone needs or want a buggy and not everyone buys them either

I didnt see this bit before....................

I bought my buggy, yes ! You therefore, must be better than me, as you built your rig -- woowoo

You say "think about it before you type" pfffttttt did you think about that one ? You thought you would be clever and have a sly go

The buying bit was an added bit that was put in the wrong place was supposed to go after the afford bit. i have nothing against buggies but as I said they aren't for everyone. I also never said I was better than you, i don't even know you or most people on this board which is where a lot of these problems stem from, people not knowing how other people communicate which leads to meaning being read in responses

Also I am not on any bandwagon etc I am however on thhe side that allows people to ask legitimate and intelligent questions and not get flamed for it.

You basically quoted what I wrote and then dropped in the buying bit It wasnt a big jump to conclude it was aimed at me Im not fazed by your comment. I love my buggy. Just making the point that you werent practising what you were preaching.

You being better than me.............. well that may come from your condescending attitude when you steam in and tell people that they shouldnt argue blah blah blah

And that last bit about DR being the poor innocent victim in this whole debacle...............I only made comment after derangedrover made several smartass replies to Guts. Im not gunna "bogged" every comment, read back through the thread.

I do agree with you that some communication probs occur as a result of not knowing the person and their idiosyncrasies.

Whatever, Im outty before someone posts the "Retarded Olympics Pic"

[Dozoor]

Mmm , interesting conversation guys , and i was waiting for it to be moved


If anything i wasn,t aware of a change in the rules that Gut's has mentioned , and if sombody could piont me where it was recorded it would be appreciated , ,


The rule that is in question is as follows and still remains upon the TT site as of the time this post was made ,.

4.1.2 VEHICLE REGISTRATION
All vehicles participating in the Event shall be legally registered as a motor vehicle in their State, Territory or Country of origin for use on public roads and shall be maintained in a roadworthy condition as required and in accordance with the vehicle regulations applicable in the State or Territory or Country in which the vehicle is registered.

Any vehicle modification required by the vehicle registering authority to have engineering certification shall have such certification completed and acknowledged by the registering authority before presentation of the vehicle for scrutineering. Proof of such acknowledgement may be required by the Chief Scrutineer.


----------------------------------------------------------

This rule is relieved for interstate competitors ,aparantly



IF they changed the need for engineers certificates for NSW guys,
Im
Spuing

[Strange Rover]

My understanding is that the rule is still there as it has been in the previous years events. I guess its the way in which they are interpreting this rule and their requirement for proof of legal registration is what allows vehicles with uncertified modifications into the event.

I believe that the standard of modifications that the vehicles will have in this event wont be any different to previous years. I figger that they have just cut all of the BS out of the engineering requirements because in previous years the system obviously wasnt working. I think that this is a much better way to set it up the event because they get the rigs that they want and they get the rigs that the crowd wants to see without the drama over what mods are allowed and whats not.

This is all just my personel opinion and obviously doesent necessrily reflect the views of the tuff event guys.

Sam

[Strange Rover]

IF they changed the need for engineers certificates for NSW guys,
Im
Spuing

Dont you guys need engineers certs for your rigs to be registered??

Sam

[daddylonglegs]

Sam, Weren't you the appointed scrutineer for Queenland Entrants ?
I would have thought that the organisers of TTC would have given you a thorough explaination of the rules re registration and Eng certs.
I hope for all your sakes and for the future of the sport that nothing tragic happens at TTC and the Insurance underwriters disallow any claims because of competitors and organisers disregard for the rules.
Bill.

[Dozoor]

IF they changed the need for engineers certificates for NSW guys,
Im
Spuing

Dont you guys need engineers certs for your rigs to be registered??

Sam

Just like a interstater could modify a vehicle and not get engineer inspections done we to could do this as long as it was within the 12 months between Registration inspections

Larry

[Wooders]

Mmm , interesting conversation guys , and i was waiting for it to be moved

If anything i wasn,t aware of a change in the rules that Gut's has mentioned , and if sombody could piont me where it was recorded it would be appreciated , ,

The rule that is in question is as follows and still remains upon the TT site as of the time this post was made ,.

4.1.2 VEHICLE REGISTRATION
All vehicles participating in the Event shall be legally registered as a motor vehicle in their State, Territory or Country of origin for use on public roads and shall be maintained in a roadworthy condition as required and in accordance with the vehicle regulations applicable in the State or Territory or Country in which the vehicle is registered.

Any vehicle modification required by the vehicle registering authority to have engineering certification shall have such certification completed and acknowledged by the registering authority before presentation of the vehicle for scrutineering. Proof of such acknowledgement may be required by the Chief Scrutineer.

----------------------------------------------------------
This rule is relieved for interstate competitors ,aparantly

IF they changed the need for engineers certificates for NSW guys,
Im Spuing

[TT05-competitors] Welcome to Tuff Truck
Sent: Fri Mar 18 18:39:27 2005
Registration will be checked by comparing the licence plate number and
VIN on the registration label against the licence plate number and VIN
on the vehicle

[Strange Rover]

Sam, Weren't you the appointed scrutineer for Queenland Entrants ?
I would have thought that the organisers of TTC would have given you a thorough explaination of the rules re registration and Eng certs.
I hope for all your sakes and for the future of the sport that nothing tragic happens at TTC and the Insurance underwriters disallow any claims because of competitors and organisers disregard for the rules.
Bill.

Appointed as a pre scrutineer - yes.

And I have a thorough understanding of the scrutineering requirements.

If you re read my post I am talking about the reasons why i believe they are conducting the event in this way, that is all. Im not trying to guess how they are conducting the event - I know how the event is being conducted.

My understanding is that their insurance has nothing to do with vehicle registration or certification of modifications.

I think that the whole registration and modification requirements are there to simply get the sort of rigs into the competition that they want. If they didnt have these requirements then we have lots of unregistered tube buggies.

The rego requirement means that the vehicles are identifiable to the average spectator and this is all they are after.

Sam

[Tazz]

Sam is right.

From my understanding Rego isnt a requirement for insurance reasons, but more a way of getting the vehicles that they want into the comp & keeping it as Tuff Truck and not the battle of the buggies.

[OVERKILL ENG]

IF they changed the need for engineers certificates for NSW guys,
Im
Spuing

Dont you guys need engineers certs for your rigs to be registered??

Sam

That is an interesting Question Sam. I was under the impression yes. But the bloke next door was pinkslipping a truck the other day that wasn't engineered but was obviously modified. He rang the RTA to see what had to be done and there response was there is nothing in the rules and guidelines for a pnik slip inspection that said it had to be engineered all he has to do is the safety check like normal and as long as every thing worked and wasn'rt going to fall off then he has done his job.
He also said that yes the Vehicle should be engineered and whilst it passed a Pinkslip inspection didn't mean that it was Street LEGAL.
So you can take your truck to get a pinkslip unengineered and pass have the police or Rta waiting at the bottom of the workshops drivway and soon as its on the road thay can defect it even though it has passed a roadworthy inspection.
SAM

[muzza_fattire]

Just a point on engineers certificates and driving on the road in NSW (not Tuff Truck rules/reg etc).

After you modify your truck and it requires an engineers certificate (there are mods you can do that are able to be "self-certified"), you are then required to get a Blue Slip and then go to the RTA and they put a note on your rego papers that an engineers certificate accompanies the rego papers. Not sure how this doesn't come into play with getting Pink Slips as mentioned above.

If you don't end up getting an engineers certificate when your truck needs one you are therefore driving and unroadworthy vehicle. Not only does this mean that you can get done by the cops and defected, but it means all your insurance (CTP/comprehensive etc) is INVALID. So, if you have an accident and it is deemed your fault, you wont be covered. This is especially scary if you end up injuring/killing a pedestrian and CTP is not covered you could up in really, really deep sh1t.

On a slightly different note, some of you have said that you shouldn't need to get a certificate because you know how good your work is - but how does anyone else know how good it is? Thats why everyone has to get their mods checked by authorised/certified engineers.

I hope this clears up some things for the people that think engineers certificates are useless...

[Dozoor]

The post i made previously about the rules does have a meaning as i see it ,
As far is i was aware The rules have a direct relation to the event insurance ,
The ccda was formed to give regulation to the registered side of the sport and used as a tool to abtain insurance , Im probly totally wrong
as usual But heres a quote from a ccda thread anyway .

Intro letter. PM me for membership application.



The Cross Country Drivers Association (CCDA) is now in full swing nationally.

Our sporting regulations (rules) and vehicle specifications have now been released and already adopted by events such as Outback Challenge, Navrun, Vic Winch Challenge, etc.

We have been encouraging involvement from all states. Note the contact details on the application form.

We are now well into negotiations with potential insurers as we are seeking a blanket policy to cover public liability at all events sanctioned by the CCDA. What makes this a very real possibility will be our large membership profile and the professionalism behind our rules and regulations.

We need as many members as possible so that we can afford the hefty insurance premium as well as promote this exciting and rapidly growing sport. Please pass this on to all your four wheel drive buddies and club members and encourage them all to join. Don't forget to join up yourself, either. The application form is attached. My original email is only to a select few. Please spread the word.

Please drop into your local 4WD store and ask them to hand out the application forms or put them on their counter fellow four wheelers to see.

Applications received before 31/3/4 become founding members and receive a gold membership card. Note also members are entitled to significant discounts at participating 4WD outlets.

We have a competition for the best logo submitted before 31/03/04. The prize is a burke and wills swag.

Regards and thanks,


Steve Hobbs

To make it all legal like when you intend to run a comp with a variation to the rules you need to ammend the rules , or the insurance will be void just as the insurance for an unengineered vehicle would be void on the road, with out the ammendment to its registration requirments via engineering and approval by the required authoritys.

For the TT they only have 2 or 3 ammended rules noted as far as i can tell . None of the the ammendments for the specific event mention vehicle registration or certification , So the rule mentioned in my earlyer post would still apply. Leaving a nice expliotable Loop hole for any insurer.


JMO.

Im just conversing with you guys over a piont i feel needs attention ,
I would hate to see some one lose all there worldly possesions , thru a legal loop hole that could be simply fixed by adding the apropiate ammendments.
If im wrong please tell me, i treat paper work like acid if you don,t handle it right it will burn you .



Larry

[daddylonglegs]

Thet is almost exactly the way I saw it Larry. Although the TTC is undoubtably a crowd pleaser and a money spinner for the promoters, it is just one event of what many enthusiasts hope will develop into an exciting and full offroad motor sporting calender. If what you have reprinted above re amendment to the rules re insurance is correct then this event, due to possible breach of the rules, unfortunately has the potential to stuff it for all the other 4wd related competition events.
As a Victorian and one of the older members of this board, I remember a much loved annual inter 4wd club event ( CrossCountry Jeep Club OF Victoria Narbethong Bog Ole Gathering) that unfortunately was killed off many years ago after an insurance claim following a serious accident at the event. IMO this single incident held back 4WD sport in Vic for a decade or more. Now you and I Larry could be as you say completely wrong, but it looks as though we have TTC, promoted by Fast Buck Enterprises flagrantly ignoring the rules and jeopardising the future of 4wd competition in Australia possibly for ever.
If I am wrong or out of order on this I apologise in advance, but so far I have seen nothing in print to convince me that I am wrong. The general attitude of some members of this board in this and a couple of other threads when the subject of Registration and engineering re TTC is raised is " Shut the fawk up'' and don't make waves. Yes I know we've had to wait a few years since the last TTC, and everyones more excited than Big Kev, but that is no reason to tolerate shoddy organisation.
Bill.