4bd1 supercharger or turbo? that is the question.

[andrew e]

i am going to do one of the following for my county but i'm stuck on deciding.

1) Fitting a supercharger off a toyota 2 litre 6 cyl. Yes it would work MQHOON ran one on his 4.2D patrol and it went very well @ 4lbs. i have already got the blower, and made up a twin v pulley and moved my power steering bottle, fuel filter and overflow bottle so it can fit. The tricky part will be making all the brackets as there is stuff all to mount it on on that side of the engine. I'd have to pick up a few head bolts or somthing. Also the belt tensioner would be a nightmare as the bottom rad hose is very close to where the twin v would run (twin v as in ex air con pulley). Pipework would be pretty simple, just make up some new flanges and stuff.

Pros - Cheap, already started, shit loads of torque off idle (i dont really need this) cheap.

Cons - can only run low boost, blowers suck power and are very noisy, lots of stuffing around designing and re-designing brackets pipes and tensioners (you never get it right the first go!).

2) turbo it, with an off the shelf turbo kit and run it at enough boost to give me more power, without damaging the engine.

Pros - It gives me an excuse to fit the 3" stainless system i have laying around, boost is up high where i need it more, relatively bolt on out of the box.

Cons - it will cost 1.5-2k, could overstress the motor, i may have to cut the bonnet.

3) do both!!!!


Does anyone have any info to sway me in either direction?

[ISUZUROVER]

It doesn't have to cost much to turbo the motor. A mate bought a manifold from a 4BD1T for about $400, a subaru WRX turbo for $300, and a water to air intercooler (Subaru RS turbo I think) for not much money, and made up everything else for basically nothing.

In his case he cut the flange off the old manifold and welded on a new one to match the subaru turbo. It would be just as easy to weld up a completely new manifold from scratch. Good second hand turbos are cheap, and the plumbing is simple and very cheap (depending on intercooler).

When I get back to OZ I will be making my own exhaust manifold, and bolting on a suitably sized turbo. I expect everything with intercooler, plumbing and materials to come out at under $1000.

Factory 4BD1T boost is 5psi. I know people who run 10 without problems but I doubt you would want to go much over that is you wanted everything to last a long time.

[andrew e]

someone once told me about a non turbo motor being turboed and it ended up with cracked skirts on the pistons? or would this be due to over-revving?

Andrew

[Loanrangie]

I would continue with the blower since its almost done, with the tensioner, just make the brackets so that all you to do is tilt it to one side ( as with rangie alternator ) to adjust the tension - you wont need an aditional pulley type tensioner.

[andrew e]

I would continue with the blower since its almost done, with the tensioner, just make the brackets so that all you to do is tilt it to one side ( as with rangie alternator ) to adjust the tension - you wont need an aditional pulley type tensioner.

Cant do this as the tensioner has to push the belts away from the radiator hose aswell as tensioning.

There is probebly twice as much work in making up the blower brackets and pipework than bolting on a turbo kit.

Andrew.

[andrew e]

[quote="ISUZUROVER"]It doesn't have to cost much to turbo the motor. A mate bought a manifold from a 4BD1T for about $400, quote]

Any tips where he found it? I tried isuzu wreck about 12 months ago and they said turbo manifolds were rare as rocking horse shit.

Andrew

[RUFF]

Andrew it came from an Izuzu dealer in Brisbane. and there is no need to cut the manifold at all. Just need to make an adapter to bolt on the Subaru turbo.

Ill try and get the details as to where we got it from this week for you. From memory the Turbo was also available for this at a decent price as well but they are not as good as the Subaru one.

[Bush65]

Andrew,

There was another thread, where someone posted a reply with some information about turbo manifold for the 4BD1.

[Bush65]

Here's the quote from that other thread with info about manifold.

I'm about to receive my manifold from Turboglide in NSW, They have ones on the shelf I understand left over from the 110 6X6 conversions for the military.

I'm using the ZF 4HP22 including low stall converter from my RRC V8, It had a High output 4.6 in front of it for about 160,000km, and showed no ill effects. It'll be getting a new forward clutch pack and a thorough going over prior to installation.

The oil jets under pistons would be a good thing, but I'm attempting to keep EGT temps to a minimum by using monstrous intercooler and setup fuelling with Pyrometer.

I hope it'll all hold together.....

JC

[andrew e]

thanks for that john, i went looking but so much came up under the search i couldnt narrow it down. i'll ring turboglide on tue.

Andrew

[Maggot4x4]

thanks for that john, i went looking but so much came up under the search i couldnt narrow it down. i'll ring turboglide on tue.

Andrew

Been there done that, they don't have any left, or didn't when I called them.

Maybe Ruff's dealer can hook us both up.

(That sounds soooo seedy )

[ISUZUROVER]

I almost bought a manifold, turbo and all extra oil lines from a 4BD1T from a truck wrecker in Melbourne. Forget who it was at the moment but they had a few 4BD1T's. Price was about $800 for manifold, turbo and other bits.

With regards to engine problems - there are only 2 differences between a 4BD1 and 4BD1T - the T has an oil spray to cool the bottom of the pistons, and also has "alfin" pistons (but the late model NA 4BD1's had these as well). So a genuine 4BD1T would be able to handle the extra stress and heat better, but in a LR, when it is pulling 3 tonnes instead of 5-8, and if you are sensible with boost and fuelling and tune and drive it on an EGT, then you should be fine.

[Bush65]

4BD1-T also has a different crankshaft (tufftrided and can't be re-ground), and extra plates in the oil cooler.

My workshop manual refers to different injection pumps and calibration, but the id no's given for both are different to mine (which does not have boost compensation). My injection pump service manual does not mention any difference between 4BD1 and 4BD1-T pumps.

[ISUZUROVER]

4BD1-T also has a different crankshaft (tufftrided and can't be re-ground), and extra plates in the oil cooler.

My workshop manual refers to different injection pumps and calibration, but the id no's given for both are different to mine (which does not have boost compensation). My injection pump service manual does not mention any difference between 4BD1 and 4BD1-T pumps.

I didn't know about the crank, I didn't see it in my workshop manual (1989ish NPR manual). What year is your manual?

With regard to the pumps, the later model turbos had a pump with an aneroid boost compensator bolted to the back. The civillian 110's also had uprated pumps over all the other 4BD1's (99Bhp instead of 85), and I think the 6x6 perenties had uprated pumps over the truck models.

[Maggot4x4]

4BD1-T also has a different crankshaft (tufftrided and can't be re-ground), and extra plates in the oil cooler.

My workshop manual refers to different injection pumps and calibration, but the id no's given for both are different to mine (which does not have boost compensation). My injection pump service manual does not mention any difference between 4BD1 and 4BD1-T pumps.

I didn't know about the crank, I didn't see it in my workshop manual (1989ish NPR manual). What year is your manual?

With regard to the pumps, the later model turbos had a pump with an aneroid boost compensator bolted to the back. The civillian 110's also had uprated pumps over all the other 4BD1's (99Bhp instead of 85), and I think the 6x6 perenties had uprated pumps over the truck models.

Sorry to HiJack for a second, but what are you guys doing for altenators? My 40amp just dosen't cut it and even if I get it rewound I will only get 70amp. By my calculations if I am on a long trip at night in the middle of summer I will need about 120amp.

Any Ideas?

[ISUZUROVER]

Sorry to HiJack for a second, but what are you guys doing for altenators? My 40amp just dosen't cut it and even if I get it rewound I will only get 70amp. By my calculations if I am on a long trip at night in the middle of summer I will need about 120amp.

Any Ideas?

My 40 amp has worked fine so far. I have done a fair bit of night driving with no problems, but my 110 is just a touring vehicle and doesn't run a lot of accessories. The 90 (15A for both lights) watt high beam on the hella replacement headlights is fine for me, and my fridge only uses 3-4A. So all up the current draw at night when not using the wipers is about 25-30A for me.

A mate in the Brisbane LR club had his alternator rewound and fitted a smaller pulley, and he is happy with that. Replacement alternators with a vacuum pump are very expensive. The cheapest option for a big alternator would be to fit one without a vacuum pump and run a 12V vacuum pump.

[RUFF]

The new Turbo manifold came from Don Kyate at oxley BUT they are apparently cheaper through Izuzu. Paid around $250 for it.

[ISUZUROVER]

The new Turbo manifold came from Don Kyate at oxley BUT they are apparently cheaper through Izuzu. Paid around $250 for it.

Great info tony.

If anyone with an air conditioned COUNTY with a 4BD1 wants to fit a turbo AND keep the factory air con, you will need to either modify the manifold or make a custom one that doesn't stick out as far. Otherwise the turbo and the fan for the AC will want to be in the same place.

[andrew e]

thanks for the info guys, before i ring around for the manifold, i am waiting on a price for a complete kit from an insider at dynamic turbos. if that ends up too $$$$ i will buy the manifold and go that route. what brand/size turbo will bolt directly on the isuzu manifold? it might be easier than cutting and welding.

Andrew

[ISUZUROVER]

thanks for the info guys, before i ring around for the manifold, i am waiting on a price for a complete kit from an insider at dynamic turbos. if that ends up too $$$$ i will buy the manifold and go that route. what brand/size turbo will bolt directly on the isuzu manifold? it might be easier than cutting and welding.

Andrew

I don't have my ISUZU manual with me in Germany so I can't give you the numbers, but there were 2 different turbo's used on the genuine 4BD1T's, one was an IHI and the other a Garret. One didn't have a wastegate and used fuelling to regulate boost. Not sure if the manifold is different between the two. As RUFF posted earlier, you can just maje an adaptor plate to adapt the bolt pattern to any turbo (provided you don't have air-con), and a more modern turbo like the IHI turbo from a WRX will work better than the original spec. turbos.

[Maggot4x4]

thanks for the info guys, before i ring around for the manifold, i am waiting on a price for a complete kit from an insider at dynamic turbos. if that ends up too $$$$ i will buy the manifold and go that route. what brand/size turbo will bolt directly on the isuzu manifold? it might be easier than cutting and welding.

Andrew

I don't have my ISUZU manual with me in Germany so I can't give you the numbers, but there were 2 different turbo's used on the genuine 4BD1T's, one was an IHI and the other a Garret. One didn't have a wastegate and used fuelling to regulate boost. Not sure if the manifold is different between the two. As RUFF posted earlier, you can just maje an adaptor plate to adapt the bolt pattern to any turbo (provided you don't have air-con), and a more modern turbo like the IHI turbo from a WRX will work better than the original spec. turbos.

Anyone know which model WRX turbo he used? Apparently there are about 3 different types.

[andrew e]

Anyone know which model WRX turbo he used? Apparently there are about 3 different types.

i'm curious about this too. what turbos has other people used? vortex? early WRX? nissan RB25T?

Anyone??

[slosh]

Here's a bit of trivia- the early 90's Kobelco 10- 12 tonne excavators used the Isuzu 4BD1 (75hp and 174 lb- ft at 1600rpm SAE), the 12 tonne having the turbo version., making 84hp and 217 lb-ft at 1600 rpm SAE.

There is probably a heap of other makes that used it too, but don't know of any others myself.

Doesn't it have the tiniest turbo you've ever seen? No wonder the Suby one works better.

[ISUZUROVER]

Anyone know which model WRX turbo he used? Apparently there are about 3 different types.

i'm curious about this too. what turbos has other people used? vortex? early WRX? nissan RB25T?

Anyone??

Andrew and Maggot - to get the answer from the horse's mouth, just call haultech (ph no is on www.haultech.com ) and ask to speak to chuck.