Runing a 12V winch on 24V

[buger]

It is possible to run a 12V winch on 24V?
What do you think, will this destroy the motor or it will help the motor to run better with less effort and coller?

[dumbdunce]

it will work but because the currents are higher, it will be hotter than running it on 12V. invest in water cooling or a huge heatsink and/or positive air pressure/cooling on the motor. It will eventally kill the motor but will provide spectacular performance until it does.

[chimpboy]

I can see why a 12V motor would have more grunt on 24V (while it lasted), but I'm struggling to see why a 12V motor would do a better job than a 24V motor. Both get the performance gain that comes from having 24V power, but one is actually designed to get the most out of it.

So I dunno, I can see the appeal of this "trick" but if it were that easy, all the manufacturers would just put 6V motors in 12V winches and get amazing performance out of them.

Also, running a 24V battery setup in a 12V vehicle is not impossibly hard, but it's also not that easy or simple, and the complexity just makes it less robust and reliable.

Jason

[dumbdunce]

I can see why a 12V motor would have more grunt on 24V (while it lasted), but I'm struggling to see why a 12V motor would do a better job than a 24V motor. Both get the performance gain that comes from having 24V power, but one is actually designed to get the most out of it.

So I dunno, I can see the appeal of this "trick" but if it were that easy, all the manufacturers would just put 6V motors in 12V winches and get amazing performance out of them.

Also, running a 24V battery setup in a 12V vehicle is not impossibly hard, but it's also not that easy or simple, and the complexity just makes it less robust and reliable.

Jason

a 12v motor has lower resistance windings than a 24V motor, so a 12v motor rated for a certain power at a certain load will make at least double that power at 24V - with the risk of blowing it up obviously. The equivalent power 24V motor draws significantly less current at the same load, but is also much slower while it does the work. If you've ever had a trainset or a radio controlled car with a speed controller, the principle is the same more voltage = more current = more power from the motor (talking effective voltage and just ignoring the PWM from an electronic speed control for now).

24V winch motors are generally designed for similar power to their 12V counterparts, at much reduced current, so the advantage in running one is mostly in terms of increased duty cycle due to much lower currents at high loads (gains in battery life and wasted heat in the motor).


the bottom line is it does make much more power than the 24V motor, or the 12v motor on 12v, BUT the cost is a constant stream of busted motors.


research activity: what is the internal resistance of your average 12v lead/acid battery? from there, what current is required to drop the voltage of a 24 volt system to a "safe" working voltage for a 12V winch motor (which I would guess at around 16V since automotive electrical systems are generally regulated at approximately 14.3V) - as a starting point using those numbers I think 0.02 ohms is sufficient at 400 amps to drop 8v, but that is completely made up - I have no idea if that is a realistic internal resistance of a car battery. note this also completely ignores any other voltage drops across solenoids, cables, connectors etc.

[Shadow]

as dumbdunce said.

the 12v motor will run much faster with more power when run on 24v, than an equivilent power 24v motor run on 12v

however, the 12v motor will wear out exceptionally quicker.

so yes winch manufacturers could put 6v motors on thier 12v winches, but the warranty claims would send em bankrupt.

[frp88]

some off the winch guys do that a you can tell how much faster it is when one without it has winched up the same hill

[chimpboy]

If you are competing and are willing to wipe out a few winch motors at each event, then this is maybe a good idea.

If you actually want to have a winch that can get you out of trouble reliably when you're in an isolated spot, this is a lousy idea.

I'm just concerned with this and the other thread on the same topic that people think they can do this and it's a sort of trick for getting more out of your winch, but it isn't - it's only good if reliability is not required, and for normal people, a winch is one thing that you want to be absolutely reliable.

Jason

[dumbdunce]

If you are competing and are willing to wipe out a few winch motors at each event, then this is maybe a good idea.

If you actually want to have a winch that can get you out of trouble reliably when you're in an isolated spot, this is a lousy idea.

I'm just concerned with this and the other thread on the same topic that people think they can do this and it's a sort of trick for getting more out of your winch, but it isn't - it's only good if reliability is not required, and for normal people, a winch is one thing that you want to be absolutely reliable.

Jason

agree on all front.

except for calling 4WDers 'normal'

[1Tuffrover]

running the 6hp on 24v will give you impressive wiching speed i know i changed from a 24v 4.5hp to the 6hp. When running cable out it is recomended that you don't hold your finger on the button you must tap the switch (i don't know why ask Dave Metcalfe)
Cheers

[1MadEngineer]

running the 6hp on 24v will give you impressive wiching speed i know i changed from a 24v 4.5hp to the 6hp. When running cable out it is recomended that you don't hold your finger on the button you must tap the switch (i don't know why ask Dave Metcalfe)
Cheers

Mainly because they dont rewire the controller solenoids to opperate on the correct voltage independant of the motor voltage and the primary coils fail after being operated on the incorrect voltage.