QLD DoT Questions

[Pinball]

Bayside CLub has a rep from Transport showing at the next meeting for a Q&A session, 1930 on 21st of september at capalaba sports club ney rd.

Have been asked to forward questions to speaker via email prior to meeting, so start listing questions and i'll pass em on.

Spock

If possible i will post questions answered back here, but it would be better if ppl showed up to listen for themselves, i believe all questions will be researched prior to the night, hence the requirement to email a list.

[Doggy]

Ask the home address of the people that make the stupid rules so we can find them and give them a big hefty spanking

[ISUZUROVER]

OK - I have 3 serious questions:

Firstly I realise all these modifications will require prior approval, inspection and a mod plate - I just want clarification if it is possible to approve them in QLD in principle.

(1) Although the rules state that you are only allowed to increase vehicle track by 2" (for a 4x4 vehicle with solid front and rear axles), are you permitted to install axles from another vehicle/model that are wider than this? Or if you install wider axles must you reduce the track by reducing the wheel offset.

(2) If you install axles from a (leaf sprung) vehicle that is (from the factory) Spring Over Axle (SOA), into a (leaf sprung) vehicle that is (from the factory) Spring Under Axle (SUA), can you install the new axles SOA (provided the suspension is suitably modified so that the regulations regarding overall lift height and compression and rebound travel distance are adhered to).

(3) Is it possible to have a vehicle with a rear axle hydraulically operated steering system (designed for offroad use only), approved for use on the road - provided that the system is configured to only operate in low-range and is physically locked (pin etc.) in the "straight ahead" position for road use.

[gurumon]

id be VERY surprised if you get someone who is at all technical enough to answer the above kinda queries (if you do... i want their phone number!)

you may have more luck with broad policy type questions...

one i would love to have answered is.... there has been talk for years of a national set of vehicle standards.... how far away is this from happening and which state will the rules be moulded from? what happens to any existing vehicles which were approved but now contravene the new standard?

oh and id REALLY like to know when theyre gunna fix ipswich road [/quote]

[Area54]

OK - I have 3 serious questions:

Firstly I realise all these modifications will require prior approval, inspection and a mod plate - I just want clarification if it is possible to approve them in QLD in principle.

(1) Although the rules state that you are only allowed to increase vehicle track by 2" (for a 4x4 vehicle with solid front and rear axles), are you permitted to install axles from another vehicle/model that are wider than this? Or if you install wider axles must you reduce the track by reducing the wheel offset.

(2) If you install axles from a (leaf sprung) vehicle that is (from the factory) Spring Over Axle (SOA), into a (leaf sprung) vehicle that is (from the factory) Spring Under Axle (SUA), can you install the new axles SOA (provided the suspension is suitably modified so that the regulations regarding overall lift height and compression and rebound travel distance are adhered to).

(3) Is it possible to have a vehicle with a rear axle hydraulically operated steering system (designed for offroad use only), approved for use on the road - provided that the system is configured to only operate in low-range and is physically locked (pin etc.) in the "straight ahead" position for road use.

Gurumon is right on the money.

All applications are directed to the engineering dept for perusal, so the person that will attend these meetings would not be able to give a judgement call on these requests.

I think it is a fantastic inroad from Q DOT's point of view, to contact and inform the public of the correct method to obtain information regarding modifications.

Big thumbs up to QLD DOT.

[HeathGQ]

one i would love to have answered is.... there has been talk for years of a national set of vehicle standards.... how far away is this from happening and which state will the rules be moulded from? what happens to any existing vehicles which were approved but now contravene the new standard?

I have heard next year for the national code. But the biggest one is - grapevine stuff though - European emmission standards by 2007.

[ISUZUROVER]

Gurumon is right on the money.

All applications are directed to the engineering dept for perusal, so the person that will attend these meetings would not be able to give a judgement call on these requests.

Have been asked to forward questions to speaker via email prior to meeting, so start listing questions and i'll pass em on.

I understood from pinball's post that that was why they wanted the questions in advance - so they could get the right people to answer them. Otherwise what is the point - if they are just going to talk about the stuff that is already in the modifications booklet.

[Beastmavster]

First one I can think of is:

1) "Why are there so many regulations stopping 4wd modifications when all we want to do is go slower, but so many allowing modifications to performance cars that allow them to go faster?"

2) What is the maximum approved tyre increase on a 4wd ( and is this different to a "passenger car") as quoted in all their blurb? Rules for Beam axled 4wd's are generally listed seperately in all other documentation.

3) How is the standard size confirmed? For instance if one manufacturer makes a 7.50R16 (common standard size) and that is 31.8" and another is 32.4" which one is considered the "standard size" for the vehicle.

4) What if a tyre manufacture specifies a tyre as being a 31x10.5x15 and it's actually 33" tall when it has full tread? Is this legal?

5) Given that 4WD tyres often would change in diameter up to 35mm as the tread depth wears away, if the "maximum increased diameter" is only 15mm how is this legal or enforcable?

6) in 5 above, would Qld DoT buy back our half worn tyres when they are worn down 15mm so that we can have a legal car again?

7) If a later model of the same vehicle series (eg 1993 instead of 1990) has an approved tyre that is a different size can this be used?

8) Why has QLD not allowed certified engineers to approve increased tyre diameter (in line with required safety modifications) despite this being clearly marked on the modification placard?

9) If differentials are swapped on a vehicle is the donor vehicle's approved tyre size used when assessing legal tyre size?

10) In 9 above, if these differentials are Factory Spring over axle is this standard factory arrangement allowed to be used on the vehicle?

11) Why are 4wd modifications so strict in QLD when NSW has such lenient laws. Most of us would be happy to do moficications legally if the laws supported this process.

12) When will the national standard vehicle modification code come into place?

13) Which state will those codes be based on?

14) If a vehicle is engineer approved in another state and it is shipped to QLD due to the owner moving will it be legal to drive on the road in QLD?

15) Are swaybar disconnects legal if they are connected when onroad?

16) If a specification of vehicle (eg DX) is not equipped with a swaybar, is it legal to not run a swaybar on the same make and model with a different specification (eg GLX)?

17) Why are certified engineers allowed to approve massive modifications such as V8 engine transplants but not the fitting of body lift kits?

[ISUZUROVER]

Good questions but (9) should say "complete axles with brakes" not "differentials" and (10) is the same as one of mine.

[bilby]

6) in 5 above, would Qld DoT buy back our half worn tyres when they are worn down 15mm so that we can have a legal car again?

[largesuzy]

i only got one question
why cant we have a soa in qld when they can have them in nsw

[wosat]

A couple of simple Questions

What are the rules for tyre and wheel mods "Light Commercial Vehicles" and defines a "Light Commercial"?

Are 31x10.5s legal on a Hilux? What about 30x9.5? ( I have spoken to QT compliance people and got a heap of non-definite answers)

The latest RACQ magazine has an article about mods and in it QT says that "owners of LCV's can not vary the combined diameter of rims and tyres beyond the placard."
*sigh*

Cheers,
Brett

[The Engineer]

I think someone should go along to this meeting as a scribe and get the guy to sign off on what he says. You can get an answer over the phone from them but requeust it over the net in writing and you wont get an answer (its been a month for me).

There are rules and then there are rules. A mate of mine got hauled over the pits and got done for - not-approved body lift, tyres past the guards etc. Nothing was said about the 33s ( in terms of diamater) the guy said that they were sweet. Now from my understanding of the 15mm rule a 33 is not legal on a hilux. (1982 Lux, 33x 12.5 x15 BFG Muddie)

I gues it comes down to the old argument what one reff lets slip the judicary will give you 6 months for. Ask the guy for some consitency and some clear guidleines that we can all understand. WE ARE NOT ALL LAYERS.

Good luck i hope you/we get some good answers.

[Beastmavster]

A couple of simple Questions

What are the rules for tyre and wheel mods "Light Commercial Vehicles" and defines a "Light Commercial"?

Are 31x10.5s legal on a Hilux? What about 30x9.5? ( I have spoken to QT compliance people and got a heap of non-definite answers)

The latest RACQ magazine has an article about mods and in it QT says that "owners of LCV's can not vary the combined diameter of rims and tyres beyond the placard."
*sigh*

Cheers,
Brett

Thats the point.

Technically it's gonna probably depend on the plate fitted to your car and there's variances all over the place. Some hiluxes are specced with like 205/70/16 which is like 28" and some are specced with 7.50R16 which is basically a 32".... same car but completely different tyre sizes and potential maximum tyre sizes.

[Zookified]

These questions have already been put in but I'll ask again because I really want to know:

Why can nsw do spoa but across the boreder we can't?
How can a huge v8 be engineered but a puss little bl cannot?
And why does larger tyre size even matter? As long as it stays inside the flairs I thought it was legal...

[ludacris]

In Qld if tyres are dot approved why cant we upgrade our brakes and then get 34's + engineered.

LudaCris

[DamTriton]

"You say that after discussions with the manufacturers, that <insert modification> cannot be done safely on a <insert model>. May I see the documentation of your Departments' discussions with the manufacturer?"

No documentation = no legal leg to stand on............

Call their bluff. Could be an interesting approach. Documentation should be available under the FoI legislation.

[ludacris]

I like that one GaryInOz.

LudaCris

[MadDan]

i've got a question... you guys might already be able to answer it for me though


i've got a gu patrol... wanna lift it... i've heard that i can go 2 inch legally... but can you go higher with a engineer's cert in qld?...

[Pinball]

I think someone should go along to this meeting as a scribe and get the guy to sign off on what he says.

i'll be there and scribe or record as best i can, have requested that pre presented q&a be given out as a handout..

but the more ears listening the better, so please show if you're in the area.

As i understand it, the point of sending questions in early, is to allow for answers to be given, vehicle specifics would be hard and i would expect be generalised.

Spock

[DamTriton]

I think someone should go along to this meeting as a scribe and get the guy to sign off on what he says.

i'll be there and scribe or record as best i can, have requested that pre presented q&a be given out as a handout..

but the more ears listening the better, so please show if you're in the area.

As i understand it, the point of sending questions in early, is to allow for answers to be given, vehicle specifics would be hard and i would expect be generalised.

Spock

take a video camera (4WD TV segment???)

[HeathGQ]

whats about - What is the recognized procedure for determining bump stop distances so we can work out 1/3 of that, therefore ensuring our vehicles are road legal?

[NICK]

whats about - What is the recognized procedure for determining bump stop distances so we can work out 1/3 of that, therefore ensuring our vehicles are road legal?

how does this also relate to a hilux which has 4 different bump stop lengths in one model. what if you were to change the bump stops to shorter ones or longer ones offered in that model?

NICK

[Area54]

whats about - What is the recognized procedure for determining bump stop distances so we can work out 1/3 of that, therefore ensuring our vehicles are road legal?

You know I have this covered for you Heath.

[HeathGQ]

whats about - What is the recognized procedure for determining bump stop distances so we can work out 1/3 of that, therefore ensuring our vehicles are road legal?

You know I have this covered for you Heath.

ssshhhhhh.... dont let that stop me from having fun

[ISUZUROVER]

OK, I have another question which I think is important to a lot of people.

The modification guidelines state that tyre diameter can be increased by no more than 15mm from the largest diameter tyre/wheel fitted to that vehicle. As I understand it, this measurement is based on the "standard" size for that "largest" tyre - published in the "Tyre and Rim Association of Australia Standards Manual".

Now for a common example of 7.50x16 I understand that there is a standard diameter for:
7.50x16 with on-road tread pattern
7.50x16 with off road tread pattern

So which one of these should be used? And when you add the 15mm to this figure, do you select a tyre with a manufacturer specified diameter of this measurement, or a Standard size from the "Tyre and Rim Association of Australia Standards Manual" with this measurement.

[DamTriton]

OK, I have another question which I think is important to a lot of people.

The modification guidelines state that tyre diameter can be increased by no more than 15mm from the largest diameter tyre/wheel fitted to that vehicle. As I understand it, this measurement is based on the "standard" size for that "largest" tyre - published in the "Tyre and Rim Association of Australia Standards Manual".

Now for a common example of 7.50x16 I understand that there is a standard diameter for:
7.50x16 with on-road tread pattern
7.50x16 with off road tread pattern

So which one of these should be used? And when you add the 15mm to this figure, do you select a tyre with a manufacturer specified diameter of this measurement, or a Standard size from the "Tyre and Rim Association of Australia Standards Manual" with this measurement.

I still think that a simple "Based on what engineering? May I see the paperwork and calculations that have lead you to this (seemingly arbitrary) figure?" Throw it back at them to prove/justify their regulations, rather than trying to work with their inconsistancies.

Any paperwork should be available under the FoI legislation. It would be interesting to see what happens if you were to put in a formal application for the documents under "discovery" (Legalese???), or class action.

[DamTriton]

Bit of a tangent............

What if we were to set up a company in Vic/NSW ("Offroad Entertainment Vehicles Pty Ltd"), and all vehicles were handed over to the company (ie. company vehicles, commercial registration) with a sum of money to cover Vic/NSW registration.

The vehicles would would have to comply with the roadworthiness rquirements of the state of ownership, and would be independant of the residential address of the owner.

Therefore, a Qld driver could legally continue to drive the "company car" issued to him (co-incidentally the same one he provided to the company), without persecution in Qld.

Finer details would need to be worked out......




Thinking out aloud (sort of...)

[ISUZUROVER]

So Pinball, any updates???

Can you post the list of questions that you submit on here and then post the answers you get?

[greenfourby]

Bit of a tangent............

What if we were to set up a company in Vic/NSW ("Offroad Entertainment Vehicles Pty Ltd"), and all vehicles were handed over to the company (ie. company vehicles, commercial registration) with a sum of money to cover Vic/NSW registration.

The vehicles would would have to comply with the roadworthiness rquirements of the state of ownership, and would be independant of the residential address of the owner.

Therefore, a Qld driver could legally continue to drive the "company car" issued to him (co-incidentally the same one he provided to the company), without persecution in Qld.

Finer details would need to be worked out......




Thinking out aloud (sort of...)

Aside from the practical issues of setting this up, a company car may create FBT implications and I think there are still rules about how long a car can be permenantly in another state before you put it on their rego system