I should clarifie that a few NSW trucks want to see the rules before they comit to making the trip up therre I tried to get hold of Metcalfe today but he is away so if anyone knows when he is back should get hold of him and get the reviewed rules so peoplr can make there minds up.
And or we should draw up a liust of rules we all agree on and present them to Dave ands see what he says.
SAM
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XRCC ROUND 2!!!
Moderator: evanstaniland
Yeah, i can understand where those guys are coming from! Whats the point coming all that way and get beaten by a rig that doesn't even attemp the course or a rig that doesn't even try to stick to the course and flatins every cone!
I only have a couple of rules (or scoring) that i think needs to be looked at!
At least 3 tyres must pass threw the gate to be classed as an attempt! If only 3 tyres pass threw you still get the 10 point penelty for touching a cone but if only 2 wheels pass threw then it should be classed as a "gate not attempted" and get 50 point penelty for leaving the course! (or something like that, i'm sure most of you know what i mean)
I also think a point system where by the furtherest threw gets the most points!
There are some more but they are the ones i think have a big influence on the event!
I think its a good idea if we all get together, talk it threw and discuss our reasons and come up with some changes (if nessesary) and submit them to DAVID METCALFE, from what i have heard and seen he has only had the VIEWS of a select FEW rock crawlers!
I am sure if a heap of us (the regular attenders of XRCC) got together and worked on some of the rules it can only improve the SPORT!!!
I only have a couple of rules (or scoring) that i think needs to be looked at!
At least 3 tyres must pass threw the gate to be classed as an attempt! If only 3 tyres pass threw you still get the 10 point penelty for touching a cone but if only 2 wheels pass threw then it should be classed as a "gate not attempted" and get 50 point penelty for leaving the course! (or something like that, i'm sure most of you know what i mean)
I also think a point system where by the furtherest threw gets the most points!
There are some more but they are the ones i think have a big influence on the event!
I think its a good idea if we all get together, talk it threw and discuss our reasons and come up with some changes (if nessesary) and submit them to DAVID METCALFE, from what i have heard and seen he has only had the VIEWS of a select FEW rock crawlers!
I am sure if a heap of us (the regular attenders of XRCC) got together and worked on some of the rules it can only improve the SPORT!!!
how about 2 classes of points.
1: for those who complete the course, least penalty points comes first.
2: for those who did not complete the course, least penalty points comes in behind the worst completed score.
1: for those who complete the course, least penalty points comes first.
2: for those who did not complete the course, least penalty points comes in behind the worst completed score.
[url=http://bigred.redbubble.com/][color=red][b]You can follow me but its gunna hurt ![/b][/color][/url]
event pics http://bigred.redbubble.com/
event pics http://bigred.redbubble.com/
big red wrote:how about 2 classes of points.
1: for those who complete the course, least penalty points comes first.
2: for those who did not complete the course, least penalty points comes in behind the worst completed score.
The only problem i can see with that is you could get someone that attempts to DRIVE everything and does not quite finish and then the next guy winches nearly every obsticle but FINISHES with the worst score of the ones that finished but still in front of the guy that gave it A GO!
XRCC Round2
Hi back in the land of the living, until Tuesday night. Will be back from Round 2 of the winch challenge Tuesday night 2nd. July.
If you have noticed I have reduced the entry fee to $165. (no food supplied) this will help you out a little bit.
as for the rules, the only change will be to the scoring. The main one will be that you must attempt all gates ( all 4 wheels to get through, cone penalties will be taken of the end score) or you score up to where you got less penalties. The one way to score in my mind at the moment is. eg. if 6 vehicles finish the course (10) gates the one with the least forward & reverse penalties ( not including cone penalties) will get 100pts next down 95 next 90 next 87 then 84, 81 so on. If 4 only get to the 9th. gate the one with the least penalties will get 78 pts then 75, 72, 69. This will keep the scoring closer & at the end of the day everyone should have a postive score. Just remember the cone penalties & any others will come off at the end.
I will only take ideas direct by phone.
All for now MMM
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
Thanks Dave!
Its good to see some of the rules getting a tweak here and there!
I love the all wheels must pass threw the Gate!!!!!!!
Also the furtherest threw gets the highest score is also a excellent move, this will now make everyone at the least start the STAGE!
Also the Price reduction, A big thumbs up!!!!!!!!!
Its good to see some of the rules getting a tweak here and there!
I love the all wheels must pass threw the Gate!!!!!!!
Also the furtherest threw gets the highest score is also a excellent move, this will now make everyone at the least start the STAGE!
Also the Price reduction, A big thumbs up!!!!!!!!!
Dave I think your scoring system will end up being confusing.
My idea for the scoring is .
10 gates per course. First one is worth 100 and then works its way down to 0 beeing the last gate.
Penalties:
reverse=1 point
stop for 6 seconds=1 point
winching=20 points
safety breach=30 points
gate breach= 10 points per cone.
gate bypass= 30 points ( if less than 3 wheels pass through gate.)
course bypass=200 points.
So that would mean that a perfect run would give a score of 0
Any ideas people .
SAM
My idea for the scoring is .
10 gates per course. First one is worth 100 and then works its way down to 0 beeing the last gate.
Penalties:
reverse=1 point
stop for 6 seconds=1 point
winching=20 points
safety breach=30 points
gate breach= 10 points per cone.
gate bypass= 30 points ( if less than 3 wheels pass through gate.)
course bypass=200 points.
So that would mean that a perfect run would give a score of 0
Any ideas people .
SAM
OVERKILL ENGINEERING
www.overkill4x4.com
www.overkill4x4.com
overkill wrote:Dave I think your scoring system will end up being confusing.
My idea for the scoring is .
10 gates per course. First one is worth 100 and then works its way down to 0 beeing the last gate.
Penalties:
reverse=1 point
stop for 6 seconds=1 point
winching=20 points
safety breach=30 points
gate breach= 10 points per cone.
gate bypass= 30 points ( if less than 3 wheels pass through gate.)
course bypass=200 points.
So that would mean that a perfect run would give a score of 0
Any ideas people .
SAM
Sam i like it!
Its does seem very simple!
And like you said it gives everyone a Benchmark to go by!
Re: XRCC Round2
XTREME MMM wrote::)
If you have noticed I have reduced the entry fee to $165. (no food supplied) this will help you out a little bit.
as for the rules, the only change will be to the scoring. The main one will be that you must attempt all gates ( all 4 wheels to get through, cone penalties will be taken of the end score) or you score up to where you got less penalties. The one way to score in my mind at the moment is. eg. if 6 vehicles finish the course (10) gates the one with the least forward & reverse penalties ( not including cone penalties) will get 100pts next down 95 next 90 next 87 then 84, 81 so on. If 4 only get to the 9th. gate the one with the least penalties will get 78 pts then 75, 72, 69. This will keep the scoring closer & at the end of the day everyone should have a postive score. Just remember the cone penalties & any others will come off at the end.
I will only take ideas direct by phone.
All for now MMM
OVERKILL!!!
It might be worth a call, your ideas will help, i think they are simple and worth contacting Dave, at the least he may adopt a simple approach!
After all we are just ROCK APES with wheels
POS wrote:OK so chatting with Sam K and Ruff, we were wondering how many rigs so far!
POS
OVERKILL
STRANGEROVER
1MADENGINEER
CORE
BOBTAIL
NICK
DAVE
GONADS and MICK
CHEZZY
Humphrey (one of the Woomba boyz)
Rhett (Country boy and Country Rig= No Fear)
maybe's
ShortyMQ(another Woomba BOY)
RUFF
Outs!!
Antunac
BJ
4X4ENGINEERING
PETER KINKAID
So who else will there be!
So there we go a few more taking up the CHALLENGE!!!!!
Good to see the WOOMBA BOYZ getting in there and GOING HARD (unlike those BOOMBA BOYZ)
overkill wrote:POS I willl ring him tomorrow and discuss them with him.
Does anyone have anything else to add.
I think we should just copy the US system. Seems to work really well and produce very good driving.
Its basically -
stop - 1 point
reverse - 1 point
hit gate - 10 points
winching - 30 points
Now once you accumulate 40 points you DNF and get pointed out and recieve 40 penality points.
Same goes for exceeding the time allowed, safety violation, more than 50% of rig going outside a gate or not attempting an obstacle. All these infringements makes you point out and you recieve 40 penality points.
Now the biggest difference with this system is that the course is run over many seperate obstacles (each obstacle is composed of a few gates - say 2 to 5 gates)and each obstacle is scored seperately. So for example you might have course A. Course A is composed of 6 seperate obstacles. Each obstacle is composed of between 2 to 5 gates. In each obstacle there is only one major hard section and the gates in each obstacle basically defines the hard section. This way if you point out or DNF of break something its not the end of the world cause you just go onto the next obstacle and try again. In this way most peoply dont winch cause there is really an incentive to drive it cause if you carnt drive it and you DNF that obstacle the guy who just winched wont be that much in front of you (say 40 penality vs a minimum of 30 penalities) and in either case you both move on to the next obstacle and go again.
Now as opposed to what Pete Kincade has started here with XRCC where the scoring and course setup is flawed. What he basically did IMO is taken the US rules and then applied them to a long course with many gates and many hard sections which causes a problem with what happens if you have a hard part at the beginning etc and causes you to play safe and winch etc... Or if somebody has a really good try and breaks on the first hard part of the stage then they basically have stuffed themselves cause they miss the rest of the stage which may comprise a third of the entire event (as apposed to say one tenth or twentyth in the many individual obstacle format) This format doesent encourage aggressive driving which is what the crowd wants to see IMO.
IMO this is why the scoring doesent work well nor does it encourage GETTIN IT AWN type of driving.
What we should do IMO is just copy the US guys cause they have been down this path a long time ago.
Sam
Oh yeah!
What goes around comes around!
Your scoring system has my approval Sam K!!!!
Sam (StrangeRover) i also agree very strongly with you as i know we have discussed this many times, the biggest issue i see is that the XRCC format of combining a number of Difficult obstacles does not allow the US style rules, the only way they would work is if the FORMAT change to suit those rules!
I think at the moment i could not see David Metcalfe changing the entire Format, i can see him adapting some of the rules we think need modifying!
The US system simply would not work how the XRCC is set-up at the moment!
Hell some of us use 40 points just to get past the first obstacle!
What goes around comes around!
Your scoring system has my approval Sam K!!!!
Sam (StrangeRover) i also agree very strongly with you as i know we have discussed this many times, the biggest issue i see is that the XRCC format of combining a number of Difficult obstacles does not allow the US style rules, the only way they would work is if the FORMAT change to suit those rules!
I think at the moment i could not see David Metcalfe changing the entire Format, i can see him adapting some of the rules we think need modifying!
The US system simply would not work how the XRCC is set-up at the moment!
Hell some of us use 40 points just to get past the first obstacle!
Last edited by POS on Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
POS wrote:Oh yeah!
What goes around comes around!
Your scoring system has my approval Sam!!!!
Not my system - its RCAA or whatever they are calling it now.
If you look at Pete Kincades rules its a copy of their system but changed around a bit to suit a long stage multiple hard sections format which IMO actually stuffed it.
Sam
Strange Rover wrote:POS wrote:Oh yeah!
What goes around comes around!
Your scoring system has my approval Sam!!!!
Not my system - its RCAA or whatever they are calling it now.
If you look at Pete Kincades rules its a copy of their system but changed around a bit to suit a long stage multiple hard sections format which IMO actually stuffed it.
Sam
Sorry Sam i was refering to Sam keck getting Ruff for being from NSW and having to eat Grasshoppers
I realised how that sounded as you posted just before me!
I think it woul also be alot easier to design obstacles this way also cause they can be more seperated out and dont necessarity have to flow on from one to another although if they do flow on then its good also. But with the many seperate obstacle format gives the course designer a lot more flexability to pick all the good bits out of the available terrain.
Sam
Sam
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