For those that missed it in all it's glory
Seriously I'd luv nothing more than seeing more SAS'd Jabbers running around
You can save the pics to your PC and use Windows pic viewer to blow up to read the text.
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~frankyz/Jabber1.jpg
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~frankyz/Jabber2.jpg
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~frankyz/Jabber3.jpg
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~frankyz/Jabber4.jpg
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~frankyz/Jabber5.jpg
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~frankyz/Jabber6.jpg
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Jabber Overlander Article.
Moderator: -Scott-
Jabber Overlander Article.
Last edited by Bitsamissin on Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I just luv my "clacker Jabber"
hay bitsa,
great article in the mag, top pics too.
i have followed your build up of the jabber over the last 12 months or so, as im sure most members have.
however i was wondering if you wouldnt mind puttting finger to key board and doing us a bit of a speal, on how you made the decisions on the various parts of the project.
eg.
axle selection - any other type you may think suitable(in hindsight)
different axle setups for different roles, eg 3 link for touring, 5 link for max flex. some people may just be sick of repairing ifs and want a milder setup for more general usage.
insurance issues
costs involved(in general)
has cheezy been able to put a $$ value on doing a 'customer' vehicle(seeing as you guys have done all the development !)
anything you would do different next time ?
it seems there are a few interested members, looking at the possibility of doing an SAS. i think everyone would be very interested in your comments (if its not too much hassle, with the new family member an all)
cheers
cookie monster
great article in the mag, top pics too.
i have followed your build up of the jabber over the last 12 months or so, as im sure most members have.
however i was wondering if you wouldnt mind puttting finger to key board and doing us a bit of a speal, on how you made the decisions on the various parts of the project.
eg.
axle selection - any other type you may think suitable(in hindsight)
different axle setups for different roles, eg 3 link for touring, 5 link for max flex. some people may just be sick of repairing ifs and want a milder setup for more general usage.
insurance issues
costs involved(in general)
has cheezy been able to put a $$ value on doing a 'customer' vehicle(seeing as you guys have done all the development !)
anything you would do different next time ?
it seems there are a few interested members, looking at the possibility of doing an SAS. i think everyone would be very interested in your comments (if its not too much hassle, with the new family member an all)
cheers
cookie monster
99 GU Patrol Wagon 4.2td
Sure, if I was doing it again I would do some things differently knowing what I do now.
Firstly the axle selection wasn't easy it basically came down to a Dana-44 (left side pumpkin) from a Jeep Wagoneer or a Bundera/Hilux axle. People asked me about a Patrol axle but IMHO they are way too big and will rob precious front clearance.
The Jeep axle was the perfect width, left hand drop pumpkin but low pinion design. Parts are harder to get and more expensive. The Tojo axle was slightly too small but legal spacers can be used to get the exact width, diff had to be reversed but a high pinion Bundera centre can be used. IMHO a high pinion front diff is necesary for the front propshaft to line up and provide more ground clearance. I also wanted to match the Mitsu 5.29 rear diff ratio and only Toyo's are available with a 5.29. Dana's only have a 5.13 or 5.38 ratio that is closest.
I decided on the Tojo axle because of the availability of spares and the 5.29 available ratio.
The diff housing reversal (to swap the pumpkin to the left side) cost around $600. Be aware that Bundera internal axles are slightly different to Hilux ones (lengths are slightly different) so I chose a Hilux housing and used a Bundera high pinion centre.
If I was doing it again I would have used a 80 Series axle and high pinion diff cut down to accept Hilux size axles and use the 3 link Cruiser suspension.
The reasons for this are :-
- bigger Cruiser brakes (rotors & calipers) and you can run the larger 100 Series pads for even better braking.
- bigger (stronger) CV's
- 3 link will handle better onroad and get almost as much flex as the current 5 link using say Wizard or 3rd's arms.
- steering links would have been Cheezy customs for ultra strength.
For the rear I would have done a 5 link for better onroad handling.
You can get very good flex out of a well designed 5 link (not quite as good as an A frame) but with much better onroad handling.
I can understand that people want to swap out the IFS and not touch the rear as it flex's ok.
It's not as easy as that.......................
Firstly I believe a 2" body lift is mandatory for a conversion like this, it just creates more precious room for chassis mounts and will allow more suspension up travel.
For a daily driver you would want reasonable onroad handling while keeping the truck as low as possible.
The lower you keep the truck the less front flex will be available and the least likely the drive shaft angles on the rear will be effected.
Mine is not a daily car so offroad performance took precedence over onroad behaviour but we kept the height to a minimum anyway.
I would guess mine is equivalent to a 5" spring lift with a 2" body lift.
I get good front flex and absolutely awesome rear flex but at the expense of onroad handling.
It's all a balance and really depends on how far you want to go and how much $$$ you want to spend. Unfortunately there is no clear cut formula only the advice and experiences from people who have done it.
But a rough idea would be around the $4-5K mark for a front conversion only. Remember this can blow out easily just add a ARB locker and new diff gears (plus install) and there's $2K. Mine was around the $10K mark but I had a lot of other things done and some extra's added in.
Of course the truck will have to be fully engineered for the 4x4 specific insurance to be valid. I haven't done this yet as more work is still needed.
At the moment I luv the current set up, sure onroad it rocks and rolls but when you get offroad all that pales into insignifigance. It's so much better and more comfortable, feels more stable than the IFS and keeps the body more level as the wheels will follow the terrain.
I do plan to put in a custom rear swaybar with an Articulator which should improve onroad behaviour and the front shock towers are to be raised to run a slightly longer shock for a bit more travel. Thats pretty much all I need/want to do with the suspension as it is.
My advice is to find a reputable 4x4 shop who has lots of experience with solid axle swaps and be very specific/clear on what you want and how much you want to spend.
I'm always happy to answer any questions because I'd luv to see more SAS'd Jabbers out there
Firstly the axle selection wasn't easy it basically came down to a Dana-44 (left side pumpkin) from a Jeep Wagoneer or a Bundera/Hilux axle. People asked me about a Patrol axle but IMHO they are way too big and will rob precious front clearance.
The Jeep axle was the perfect width, left hand drop pumpkin but low pinion design. Parts are harder to get and more expensive. The Tojo axle was slightly too small but legal spacers can be used to get the exact width, diff had to be reversed but a high pinion Bundera centre can be used. IMHO a high pinion front diff is necesary for the front propshaft to line up and provide more ground clearance. I also wanted to match the Mitsu 5.29 rear diff ratio and only Toyo's are available with a 5.29. Dana's only have a 5.13 or 5.38 ratio that is closest.
I decided on the Tojo axle because of the availability of spares and the 5.29 available ratio.
The diff housing reversal (to swap the pumpkin to the left side) cost around $600. Be aware that Bundera internal axles are slightly different to Hilux ones (lengths are slightly different) so I chose a Hilux housing and used a Bundera high pinion centre.
If I was doing it again I would have used a 80 Series axle and high pinion diff cut down to accept Hilux size axles and use the 3 link Cruiser suspension.
The reasons for this are :-
- bigger Cruiser brakes (rotors & calipers) and you can run the larger 100 Series pads for even better braking.
- bigger (stronger) CV's
- 3 link will handle better onroad and get almost as much flex as the current 5 link using say Wizard or 3rd's arms.
- steering links would have been Cheezy customs for ultra strength.
For the rear I would have done a 5 link for better onroad handling.
You can get very good flex out of a well designed 5 link (not quite as good as an A frame) but with much better onroad handling.
I can understand that people want to swap out the IFS and not touch the rear as it flex's ok.
It's not as easy as that.......................
Firstly I believe a 2" body lift is mandatory for a conversion like this, it just creates more precious room for chassis mounts and will allow more suspension up travel.
For a daily driver you would want reasonable onroad handling while keeping the truck as low as possible.
The lower you keep the truck the less front flex will be available and the least likely the drive shaft angles on the rear will be effected.
Mine is not a daily car so offroad performance took precedence over onroad behaviour but we kept the height to a minimum anyway.
I would guess mine is equivalent to a 5" spring lift with a 2" body lift.
I get good front flex and absolutely awesome rear flex but at the expense of onroad handling.
It's all a balance and really depends on how far you want to go and how much $$$ you want to spend. Unfortunately there is no clear cut formula only the advice and experiences from people who have done it.
But a rough idea would be around the $4-5K mark for a front conversion only. Remember this can blow out easily just add a ARB locker and new diff gears (plus install) and there's $2K. Mine was around the $10K mark but I had a lot of other things done and some extra's added in.
Of course the truck will have to be fully engineered for the 4x4 specific insurance to be valid. I haven't done this yet as more work is still needed.
At the moment I luv the current set up, sure onroad it rocks and rolls but when you get offroad all that pales into insignifigance. It's so much better and more comfortable, feels more stable than the IFS and keeps the body more level as the wheels will follow the terrain.
I do plan to put in a custom rear swaybar with an Articulator which should improve onroad behaviour and the front shock towers are to be raised to run a slightly longer shock for a bit more travel. Thats pretty much all I need/want to do with the suspension as it is.
My advice is to find a reputable 4x4 shop who has lots of experience with solid axle swaps and be very specific/clear on what you want and how much you want to spend.
I'm always happy to answer any questions because I'd luv to see more SAS'd Jabbers out there
I just luv my "clacker Jabber"
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