A warning

[Red Bull RockIt]

The post is about RockCrawling.

Coming to compete in Australia, it was clear that your teams have learned very quickly how to drive and build crawlers. We were pleasantly surprised to see that you all have progressed in 2 years, to a level that took us 5 years to get to. Truly, with another year, you'll be completly caught up...

Here's the warning part...though you've learned many things from watching and reading what we do here in the states to get ideas, there is one thing you need to close your eyes to. You need to completely stay away from the form of sanctioning we have seen here in the states that has created some huge issues for everyone including: Teams, Sponsors, media, fans, insurance... I am not saying Don't work with a sanctioning body like WE Rock...I am saying that you guys and gals need to choose ONE and then work from there
The problem here is that there are TOO MANY sanctioning bodies and that scares people and splits the possibilities into fragments of what could be. Too many people going to the media and saying, "I'm running the greatest rockcrawling sanctioning body in the world!!!" Too many people going to the sponsors and saying, "You need to sponsor my sanctioning body as I'm the one that runs the best events!!!"...and so on and so on and so on. The people they are going to become discouraged and eventually may even be scared away.

A SUGGESTION to you mates.

CHOOSE a sanctioning body, negotiate a sanction, rules, and support system, and then be a promoter, not a sanctioning body. This makes it MUCH simpler for everyone and will not create this big, "who's worth working with?" question that sponsors, teams, media, and everyone else must answer.
Rules and event formatting are tunable for regions and special situations...just ask any team here...they'll tell you it is more important to work together by finding common ground, than to try to best each other and end up scaring money and media away.

This is not a small subject and definitly cannot be summed up in this one post but I figured I would start the ball rolling to let you know that things are more difficult here in the US than they should be...you don't want to follow in that path by having multiple sanctioning bodies for RockCrawling...ONE sanctioning body with multiple event promoters is the answer.

There you go, the topic is on the table...what do you think?

[bad_religion_au]

so basically, are you saying have 1 set of rules, 1 "body" (i.e. werock), then under that umbrella run multiple series (like the nsw and queensland werock series, and ozrock)

[POS]

The post is about RockCrawling.

Coming to compete in Australia, it was clear that your teams have learned very quickly how to drive and build crawlers. We were pleasantly surprised to see that you all have progressed in 2 years, to a level that took us 5 years to get to. Truly, with another year, you'll be completly caught up...

Here's the warning part...though you've learned many things from watching and reading what we do here in the states to get ideas, there is one thing you need to close your eyes to. You need to completely stay away from the form of sanctioning we have seen here in the states that has created some huge issues for everyone including: Teams, Sponsors, media, fans, insurance... I am not saying Don't work with a sanctioning body like WE Rock...I am saying that you guys and gals need to choose ONE and then work from there
The problem here is that there are TOO MANY sanctioning bodies and that scares people and splits the possibilities into fragments of what could be. Too many people going to the media and saying, "I'm running the greatest rockcrawling sanctioning body in the world!!!" Too many people going to the sponsors and saying, "You need to sponsor my sanctioning body as I'm the one that runs the best events!!!"...and so on and so on and so on. The people they are going to become discouraged and eventually may even be scared away.

A SUGGESTION to you mates.

CHOOSE a sanctioning body, negotiate a sanction, rules, and support system, and then be a promoter, not a sanctioning body. This makes it MUCH simpler for everyone and will not create this big, "who's worth working with?" question that sponsors, teams, media, and everyone else must answer.
Rules and event formatting are tunable for regions and special situations...just ask any team here...they'll tell you it is more important to work together by finding common ground, than to try to best each other and end up scaring money and media away.

This is not a small subject and definitly cannot be summed up in this one post but I figured I would start the ball rolling to let you know that things are more difficult here in the US than they should be...you don't want to follow in that path by having multiple sanctioning bodies for RockCrawling...ONE sanctioning body with multiple event promoters is the answer.

There you go, the topic is on the table...what do you think?

Totally agree, some of us follow very closly what is happening in the states and like you said, this is one area that i hope we can get sorted before it all gets to big.

[Red Bull RockIt]

so basically, are you saying have 1 set of rules, 1 "body" (i.e. werock), then under that umbrella run multiple series (like the nsw and queensland werock series, and ozrock)

Yes...and I realise it already is that to an extent but soon there will be a growth spurt that brings in new opinions and visions and SOMEONE will soon be thinking they can do it better by themselves...trust me, it'll happen. Well, they may have a couple of rules different, or other things that give the appearance that things just got better, but then there is a split in the PERCEPTION by media and such of a stable and consistant sport. This is a warning that something like this would actually hurt more than help.

Rules and event formatting can be tweaked to a point as long as the safety and fairness standards are kept in place. If someone has a better idea about running their own event a little differently than things are currently done, that does not mean they can't speak to the sanctioning body to come up with an acceptable rules and formet and still keep it under a single sanction banner that keeps the confusion out.

Right now in the states, there is:
Pro Rock
UROC
NeuRock
WE Rock
RRock
CalRocs
and a number of other smaller events that create their own rules. Some share a few rules or partial sanction but the confusion is definitly there...

It would be far better if it was:
The ProRock national Rockcrawling series (then in small print) sanctioned by "whateverrock"
The Utah RockCrawling challenge, (then in smaller text) sanctioned by "whatever rock".
and so on...all (or most) under the one banner so there is consistancy and familiarity in the buildup of the sport.

[bad_religion_au]

so basically, are you saying have 1 set of rules, 1 "body" (i.e. werock), then under that umbrella run multiple series (like the nsw and queensland werock series, and ozrock)

Yes...and I realise it already is that to an extent but soon there will be a growth spurt that brings in new opinions and visions and SOMEONE will soon be thinking they can do it better by themselves...trust me, it'll happen. Well, they may have a couple of rules different, or other things that give the appearance that things just got better, but then there is a split in the PERCEPTION by media and such of a stable and consistant sport. This is a warning that something like this would actually hurt more than help.

Rules and event formatting can be tweaked to a point as long as the safety and fairness standards are kept in place. If someone has a better idea about running their own event a little differently than things are currently done, that does not mean they can't speak to the sanctioning body to come up with an acceptable rules and formet and still keep it under a single sanction banner that keeps the confusion out.

Right now in the states, there is:
Pro Rock
UROC
NeuRock
WE Rock
RRock
CalRocs
and a number of other smaller events that create their own rules. Some share a few rules or partial sanction but the confusion is definitly there...

It would be far better if it was:
The ProRock national Rockcrawling series (then in small print) sanctioned by "whateverrock"
The Utah RockCrawling challenge, (then in smaller text) sanctioned by "whatever rock".
and so on...all (or most) under the one banner so there is consistancy and familiarity in the buildup of the sport.

i totally agree with this, and my feeling is that werock and ozrock may be the start of this split. and i thought that it'd be a shame that they weren't incorporatet/ run in parralell/ overseen by the same sanctioning body. hopefully your wisdom is read and taken into account by the top dawgs

[Strange Rover]

Im not splitting anything.

I already have the rules, regulations, competition format and vehicle specifications given to me by WE Rock at the start of this year and thats what Im running.

I think its easy for sombody to look at whats currently running and then think that they can do it better. Hell - even I have a few ideas about what should be changed in the rules but instead of just running my own rules I spoke to the "sanctioning body" ie Big Rich about what I think and got feedback on whats possible and where the sport is heading. I totally understand why the WE Rock rules are how they are and Im backing them 100%. I believe that uniformity in this sport is the key to it growing nationally and internationally.

Now - that being said we do have a seperate sanctioning body that will grow and become more prominant in this sport. This sanctioning body is the CCDA http://ccda.4wd.org.au/cms/ . These guys will have their own rules and vehicle requirements and insurance for this sport so that anybody who wants to run a rockcrawling event can go to them and they have everything needed to make it happen.

So for me the future plan for WE Rock is fairly simple - I just stick with WE Rock USA and grow this sport in Australia and internationally.

Now as for OZ Rock - Cheezy looks like he wants to do things a little bit differently. He's running vehicle specs that are a bit looser than WE Rock (meaning WE Rock rigs comply with his rules but Oz Rock rigs might not necessarily comply with WE Rock) and I can understand why he is doing this. We actually did this this year - ran looser rules than WE Rock USA to get the competition numbers up but from now on in we are running the proper WE Rock rules.

Sam

[Roctoy]

so... before this gets too big here in Aus, it would be a good idea to have some sort of agreement with the CCDA that states all rockcrawling events (Not Club style events like Nissan Trials etc) be sanchioned by the CCDA?
And somehow a regulation of this is compying with a general set of rules, Maybe based on WE Rock (cause this is a great standard to go by)

Would it be that hard to conform??? Really. Before we get carried away.

We are looking at competing in both series' next year, it'd be stupid to have to alter the specs of the vehicle to be able to compete in each different event, if it comes to that.

Chris

[MissDrew]

I think you`ll find the only differance between ozrock and werock vech specs is in ozrock you need to run either window nets or wrist restrants. Plus there is only 1 class (for now) which as far as I know the classes will be the same as werock.

I haven`t spoken to cheezy about ozrock very much but the way I see it and am looking at it is ozrock is more just a vicwerock. But I could be wrong here as like I said I haven`t really spoken about where he wants it all to go.

[ljxtreem]

Pretty much Guts, and at the moment Ozrock is being run under the sanctioned CCDA rules.


Mock

[ljxtreem]

so... before this gets too big here in Aus, it would be a good idea to have some sort of agreement with the CCDA that states all rockcrawling events (Not Club style events like Nissan Trials etc) be sanchioned by the CCDA?
And somehow a regulation of this is compying with a general set of rules, Maybe based on WE Rock (cause this is a great standard to go by)

Would it be that hard to conform??? Really. Before we get carried away.

We are looking at competing in both series' next year, it'd be stupid to have to alter the specs of the vehicle to be able to compete in each different event, if it comes to that.

Chris

Chris,
dont think you would have to change anything on your car, Open\super modified is the same as we rock, anything goes almost : ). and for modified your buggy has to be a 2 seater, max 37inch tyre, can be a tube chassis, can run hydro steer, no rear steer and the chassis can be a little shorter in the front than the we rock rules.

safty rules are the same for both classes, catch cans, kill switches, fire walls, skid lids, coverd radiators, wrist restraints/window nets fire extinguishers and helmets.

Better to have almost an even amount of cars in both classes, than most of the cars in supermodified and only a couple in modified.

The way the corses are set, points and scoring, all the same as we/cal/oz/U/R/Neu/pro rock

So appart from a few subtle vehicle class diferances, its all the same shite, and there would be no problem running a rig in both, a rig just might not be in the same class in both.


Mock

[Red Bull RockIt]

The way the corses are set, points and scoring, all the same as we/cal/oz/U/R/Neu/pro rock

They are NOT the same...each has it's own way of doing it and it really has become confusing...for the media, teams, and fans.

[POS]

The way the corses are set, points and scoring, all the same as we/cal/oz/U/R/Neu/pro rock
Mock

Man thats some funky scoring you'd have going!

All those events have slightly different scoring, rules and vehicle specs. I think thats Dustins point!

Even Slightly different causes issues!

[Micka]

The point that Dustin is making is a good one...but not achieveable IMHO.

There will be disagreements over rules/specs/managing of events...whatever, and this will result in the formation of a multitude of bodies in the future. This happens in just about every sport. There is always someone who thinks that they can do it better, rightly or wrongly.

And the worst part is...its usually someone who was involved in setting up the first one. It happens in business everyday.

The real point is to make WE Rock that much better and that much more professional than any other pop-up series, that they are soon swallowed up by WE Rock. There is already an awesome foundation on which this year's series was run, and it will only get bigger and better. But to do that, there needs to be some very real and very serious - and planned ahead of time, Sam - promotion of this sport to ensure its growth. Any products and events need to be ruthlessly advertised. There needs to be a detailed design for how each event is planned, promoted, staged and run. Media - mainstream media - need to be made aware of this sport. 4WDTV and the other guys do an awesome job...but the real growth lies in the bigger outlets getting hold of it. That can also bring with it a whole new set of dramas...but that can be dealt with then.

You have an awesome product. You have the characters that are already media savvy. All that needs to be done is to take it to them.

Micka

[Red Bull RockIt]

The point that Dustin is making is a good one...but not achieveable IMHO.

There will be disagreements over rules/specs/managing of events...whatever, and this will result in the formation of a multitude of bodies in the future.

There's where the beauty of sanctioning comes in. The events can still have variances in the rules, event formatting, vehicle specs if they negotiate for it. At the same time, it still gives an impression of a solid sport. Trust me..where your sport is at right now, you all would proceed further and faster if you would work together with a sanctioning body doing events with different formatting, than you would working seperatly doing events with different formatting.
The sad thing is, those "renegade" promoters (guys who start new sanction bodies) are usually just disgruntled people that had a vehicle that they felt should be in a different class, or had something they thought should be legal but wasn't, or had a call go against them in competition, or any number of petty BS things that happen every event...and instead of just recognising that that is the way it goes with some things going your way and other things not going your way...they instead just say they can do it better, when all they end up doing is muddying the waters in the sport by splitting the teams/media/sponsors/fans/comp sites, and a whole lot more. Those guys cause more harm than good.

We're talking about SANCTIONING here only though so don't take my comments as new people shouldn't try to promote their own specialty events. I fully believe that that makes the sport more successful as long as they are working under a unified sanction...

[ljxtreem]

The way the corses are set, points and scoring, all the same as we/cal/oz/U/R/Neu/pro rock
Mock

Man thats some funky scoring you'd have going!

All those events have slightly different scoring, rules and vehicle specs. I think thats Dustins point!

Even Slightly different causes issues!

Didnt know that , didnt want to change that bit, the scoring and event rules, that would be confusing if you competed in both

Mock

[ljxtreem]

The point that Dustin is making is a good one...but not achieveable IMHO.

There will be disagreements over rules/specs/managing of events...whatever, and this will result in the formation of a multitude of bodies in the future.

There's where the beauty of sanctioning comes in. The events can still have variances in the rules, event formatting, vehicle specs if they negotiate for it. At the same time, it still gives an impression of a solid sport. Trust me..where your sport is at right now, you all would proceed further and faster if you would work together with a sanctioning body doing events with different formatting, than you would working seperatly doing events with different formatting.
The sad thing is, those "renegade" promoters (guys who start new sanction bodies) are usually just disgruntled people that had a vehicle that they felt should be in a different class, or had something they thought should be legal but wasn't, or had a call go against them in competition, or any number of petty BS things that happen every event...and instead of just recognising that that is the way it goes with some things going your way and other things not going your way...they instead just say they can do it better, when all they end up doing is muddying the waters in the sport by splitting the teams/media/sponsors/fans/comp sites, and a whole lot more. Those guys cause more harm than good.

We're talking about SANCTIONING here only though so don't take my comments as new people shouldn't try to promote their own specialty events. I fully believe that that makes the sport more successful as long as they are working under a unified sanction...

Australia is hardly like that yet, WE rock is santioned by a US body, OZrock is sanctioned by an Austrlian body.
I cant see the problem at the moment, would WErock want to be sanctioned by the CCDA, I dont think so, as do OZrock, dont want to be sanctioned by a US body.

I think we should all just keep the peace and leave it, Its this politics that could damage the sport.

I think both series work quite well (remember there are only 2 rockcrawling series in Australia)

Peace out

Mock

[Red Bull RockIt]

AND...something very important.

If you are going to grow your event beyond a once a year fun thing with classes designed for a certain region with only a few rigs, by all means, make the classes to fit the vehicles that will attend.

HOWEVER, if you are planning on playing with the big boys and making this something long term, you'd better pay CLOSE attention to the international standards so your competitors can compete among the world in their same class. Creating select classes just because your vehicles are a certain way now, just might be a decision far worse than making some small changes to the rigs to make them fit the regulations being used on 90% of the competition crawlers in the world.

The following is an example only, any rule could be used in this one's place: Someone that bitches that they don't like the modified rules because they have to add a short extension to their frame to make it come to the front of their tires doesn't realise that the rule is used and followed very closely everywhere else for a reason. It is a rule that levels the playing field for approach angle, but that's not the point. Making new rules just for a couple of guys is the wrong way to approach this if you ever plan on it being more than a weekend of fun once a year. It takes a couple hours of work and only a few dollars to change the crawler to fit that rule...by changing the rule, you've now opened the class up and taken away one of the levellers.

Keep in mind, the rules we use have been made over an 8 year span, taking the best rules and adapting them to best level the field for the long term. UROC came along with their vehicle rules formatting two years ago and changed something that was already working perfectly...it has taken until now to get people to realise that screwed things up pretty badly and cost everyone (especially the teams) as we all made the change, and now have had to change back.

As for the CCDA using the WE Rock rules...I have no clue. But I would suspect that they, of all people, should be working side by side with WE Rock if they are. The CCDA, no matter their experience in other areas of offroad, is still very young in the sport of competition rockcrawling. WE Rock is now an international body with the support of the best teams, sponsors, and media...they have been around since the very beginning here in the US and that experience cannot be topped. Many of you saw what one weekend with Lil Rich did for the sport down there...don't take that for granted.

[ljxtreem]

The point that Dustin is making is a good one...but not achieveable IMHO.

There will be disagreements over rules/specs/managing of events...whatever, and this will result in the formation of a multitude of bodies in the future. This happens in just about every sport. There is always someone who thinks that they can do it better, rightly or wrongly.

And the worst part is...its usually someone who was involved in setting up the first one. It happens in business everyday.

The real point is to make WE Rock that much better and that much more professional than any other pop-up series, that they are soon swallowed up by WE Rock. There is already an awesome foundation on which this year's series was run, and it will only get bigger and better. But to do that, there needs to be some very real and very serious - and planned ahead of time, Sam - promotion of this sport to ensure its growth. Any products and events need to be ruthlessly advertised. There needs to be a detailed design for how each event is planned, promoted, staged and run. Media - mainstream media - need to be made aware of this sport. 4WDTV and the other guys do an awesome job...but the real growth lies in the bigger outlets getting hold of it. That can also bring with it a whole new set of dramas...but that can be dealt with then.

You have an awesome product. You have the characters that are already media savvy. All that needs to be done is to take it to them.

Micka

OZrock, not Pop up

Mock

[Strange Rover]

Australia is hardly like that yet, WE rock is santioned by a US body, OZrock is sanctioned by an Austrlian body.
I cant see the problem at the moment, would WErock want to be sanctioned by the CCDA, I dont think so, as do OZrock, dont want to be sanctioned by a US body.

I think we should all just keep the peace and leave it, Its this politics that could damage the sport.

I think both series work quite well (remember there are only 2 rockcrawling series in Australia)

Peace out

Mock

What I think will happen if Oz Rock progresses is that if people build modified rigs to suit Oz Rock rules then these rigs wont be competitive in WE Rock. So these rigs probably wont compete in WE Rock and therefore the sport of rockcrawling in Australia (as a whole) wont progress as fast as it would if we all ran the same rules.

For example Cheezys rig on a set of 37s is built right to the limit of Oz Rock Modified rules (or should that be the other way round - I guess Cheezys rig came first) but this rig would get its arse handed to it if it competed in WE Rock (bit of smack talking here - sorry, I couldnt help it ) and so probably wouldnt compete.

And Mock - FYI - XRCC has run about 6 rockcrawling events, WE Rock has run 4 events (plus 2 others) and Oz Rock has run 1

Sam

[RUFF]

And Mock - FYI - XRCC has run about 6 rockcrawling events, WE Rock has run 4 events (plus 2 others) and Oz Rock has run 1

Sam

And also Q Rock have ran 3 succesfull Rock crawling events.

[bad_religion_au]

can i ask who werock gets there insurance through?

i was under the impression that's a big reason OZROCK went through CCDA (but i don't know much )

another reason for the segregated series imho, is the whole "few comps below sydney" approach of werock. in my opinion (which may not count for much) if ozrock and the current "werock" worked together, under a common body (dustin's "santioning body"), with ozrock handling the southern states, and werock handling the northern, with a combined final points tally (i.e. to decide the people to go to the US) and a combined final, say in milboroughdale (spelling) then it would grow things so much more smoothly (with a combined rules set no "series" loyalty)

i understand sam (aka strangerover) you especially, but all the haultec boys have had a huge hand in growing the sport, and it may feel like people "cashing in" on your work, with the whole "combined series" talk, but in the end, we (well i) all just want rock crawling to take off, be it to spectate, or to amp us enough to get us off our asses and build a buggy.

[Strange Rover]

can i ask who werock gets there insurance through?

i was under the impression that's a big reason OZROCK went through CCDA (but i don't know much )

another reason for the segregated series imho, is the whole "few comps below sydney" approach of werock. in my opinion (which may not count for much) if ozrock and the current "werock" worked together, under a common body (dustin's "santioning body"), with ozrock handling the southern states, and werock handling the northern, with a combined final points tally (i.e. to decide the people to go to the US) and a combined final, say in milboroughdale (spelling) then it would grow things so much more smoothly (with a combined rules set no "series" loyalty)

i understand sam (aka strangerover) you especially, but all the haultec boys have had a huge hand in growing the sport, and it may feel like people "cashing in" on your work, with the whole "combined series" talk, but in the end, we (well i) all just want rock crawling to take off, be it to spectate, or to amp us enough to get us off our asses and build a buggy.

The WE Rock finals were insured through the CCDA.

Having Oz Rock run WE Rock sanctioned events that counted towards the WE Rock series would suit me perfectly. Even just including Oz Rock events towards the WE Rock series points would work but for the moment Oz Rock are looking to run different vehicle classes, they are running different competition rules and I think their competition format is a bit different as well.

Sam

[bad_religion_au]

can i ask who werock gets there insurance through?

i was under the impression that's a big reason OZROCK went through CCDA (but i don't know much )

another reason for the segregated series imho, is the whole "few comps below sydney" approach of werock. in my opinion (which may not count for much) if ozrock and the current "werock" worked together, under a common body (dustin's "santioning body"), with ozrock handling the southern states, and werock handling the northern, with a combined final points tally (i.e. to decide the people to go to the US) and a combined final, say in milboroughdale (spelling) then it would grow things so much more smoothly (with a combined rules set no "series" loyalty)

i understand sam (aka strangerover) you especially, but all the haultec boys have had a huge hand in growing the sport, and it may feel like people "cashing in" on your work, with the whole "combined series" talk, but in the end, we (well i) all just want rock crawling to take off, be it to spectate, or to amp us enough to get us off our asses and build a buggy.

The WE Rock finals were insured through the CCDA.

Having Oz Rock run WE Rock sanctioned events that counted towards the WE Rock series would suit me perfectly. Even just including Oz Rock events towards the WE Rock series points would work but for the moment Oz Rock are looking to run different vehicle classes, they are running different competition rules and I think their competition format is a bit different as well.

Sam

woot there's one side... OZROCK BOYS? can we kiss and make up (as long as i'm not watching ) lol or at least get some discussions proceeding.

similar vehicle specs = easier on compeditors
run in with werock = easier world domination (through us handing the yanks their ARSES at the global finals)
and then we have the east coast represented in comps. I LOVE IT

[Red Bull RockIt]

I guess before I say any more, I should ask this question...how is CCDA and OzRock working with WE Rock? I know that the CCDA and Det were there at Milbrodale and Det seemed to be a professional and concerned guy trying to make sure everything fell into place with their side of the event. Lil Rich covered the other side, bringing everyone up to speed on what you would see at a top US event. The way things ran, I'd assume that it would be a no-brainer for them to work together for the long run and quick integration of the sport. Obviously, Sam was one of the big pushes for growth this season brought the people together and as the WE Rock Aus. person, I can't leave him out of that last statement either...

Back to the CCDA - Det seemed to have a handle on one side of the sport, but in short, the US will set the pace for awhile and without working side by side with the sanctioning body that creates those standards, there will be a lapse in Aussie performance. Your teams would arrive at an international competition already at a disadvantage...that means the following wouldn't happen.

run in with werock = easier world domination (through us handing the yanks their ARSES at the global finals)

However, until you guys learn to drive like a girl, that won't happen anyway


To close this subject for me for a bit (I'm heading to a place without internet access for two weeks), I'll just say that you guys really need to look further into working together. You THINK you can do it alone, competing against the other, but soon your country will just be a strung out bunch of rules and formatting that discourages EVERYONE.
What I have been suggesting all along is not hard, not selfish, not unprofessional...it is a smoother way to make things work for Australia. Don't think small.
Outline it this way in your mind and tell me it does not work…

1. Sanctioning body provides expertise in the general rules and outlines of formatting used in international competition.

2. Someone like the CCDA partners up with that sanctioning body to assist with the logistics of the business side of the events.

3. Someone like Sam creates the Australian division of the sanctioning body as a neutral representative to insure communication between everyone and at the same time has the opportunity of promoting his own number of events under the sanction.

4. Every other competition has the chance to contact the sanctioning body (Sam and CCDA working together) who is partnered with someone like the CCDA to ask for support and/or sanction.

5. The smaller, "FUN" events have more leeway in the rules for regional type trailrigs to "get their feet wet" in the sport and have fun for a weekend. Maybe they decide they want to do bigger events and will develop rigs to do that. If not, they are instantly hooked as fans and bring others with them making the spectator base at events larger, buying more magazine subscriptions and watching the coverage of the events on TV.

6. The "small" events with a vision to grow into something long term would have less leeway in their rules/formatting so they become a simple stepping stone...in turn they are allowed a LITTLE leeway as they may be trying to draw from a small amount of vehicles in a difficult region to draw from.

7. The "medium to large" events in larger places with more teams available would have the easiest draw, therefore would be allowed less leeway than the rest as it is clear that some formatting needs to be in place to keep up with the rest of the world.

It is quite simple and is the way to AVOID politics. If you think this subject is about politics, wait a year with things going in 4 different ways...not only will you have politics in a big, bad way, but you'll also have angry sponsors, media, teams, and fans...not to mention you being angry that everyone is angry.

[Micka]

The point that Dustin is making is a good one...but not achieveable IMHO.

There will be disagreements over rules/specs/managing of events...whatever, and this will result in the formation of a multitude of bodies in the future. This happens in just about every sport. There is always someone who thinks that they can do it better, rightly or wrongly.

And the worst part is...its usually someone who was involved in setting up the first one. It happens in business everyday.

The real point is to make WE Rock that much better and that much more professional than any other pop-up series, that they are soon swallowed up by WE Rock. There is already an awesome foundation on which this year's series was run, and it will only get bigger and better. But to do that, there needs to be some very real and very serious - and planned ahead of time, Sam - promotion of this sport to ensure its growth. Any products and events need to be ruthlessly advertised. There needs to be a detailed design for how each event is planned, promoted, staged and run. Media - mainstream media - need to be made aware of this sport. 4WDTV and the other guys do an awesome job...but the real growth lies in the bigger outlets getting hold of it. That can also bring with it a whole new set of dramas...but that can be dealt with then.

You have an awesome product. You have the characters that are already media savvy. All that needs to be done is to take it to them.

Micka

OZrock, not Pop up

Mock

Wasn't referring to Ozrock, Mock, old mate.

Talking about angry spin offs from the 2 that currently exist. As Dustin pointed out...a united front will benefit everyone.

Micka

[bad_religion_au]

run in with werock = easier world domination (through us handing the yanks their ARSES at the global finals)

However, until you guys learn to drive like a girl, that won't happen anyway

i agree with everything you said, shame it's coming from someone who relies on his wife to make him look good

[sierrajim]

So after reading this thread i'm thinking that you guys are trying to suggest that because Werock was here first that everyone else should follow?

I may be wrong, if i am feel free to delete this post, but it seems as if this thread is aimed toward the beginnings of Ozrock. The points raied are true and valid, one voice can be heard, a dozen voices cacell each other out.

[Red Bull RockIt]

So after reading this thread i'm thinking that you guys are trying to suggest that because Werock was here first that everyone else should follow?

I may be wrong, if i am feel free to delete this post, but it seems as if this thread is aimed toward the beginnings of Ozrock. The points raied are true and valid, one voice can be heard, a dozen voices cacell each other out.

Jim, my point is not pointing at ANY sanctioning body...I have kept references to a minimum because I do my best to promote the sport as a whole. SO, to me it doesn't matter who you choose...your issue it is to choose something, and stick to it...Whatever you choose, if you plan on playing with the big boys, it'd better be something aligned with the states or it'll hurt Australia in the long run.
It's not about who's first...it's about who (or a combination of who) will take the sport the furthest.

I know how I would do it if it were me in your shoes...but it's not me so I'll simply provide you with a few ideas and let you guys hash it out.

[Red Bull RockIt]

i agree with everything you said, shame it's coming from someone who relies on his wife to make him look good

I surround myself with people that make me look good. Think about that same exact comment relating DIRECTLY to this thread...

If the Aussies surround themselves with an already internationally succesful foundation of regulations, have somebody handling the business end of things, and have regional promoters running events in tune with what their region will spend money to see/sponsor/compete in, then you've surrounded yourself business-wise with people that make you (Aussie RockCrawling) look good.

[Strange Rover]

So after reading this thread i'm thinking that you guys are trying to suggest that because Werock was here first that everyone else should follow?

WE Rock wasnt here first. XRCC was here first and then Q Rock followed.

WE Rock has just progressed quicker because of the US involvement.

Sam