Gti Samurai fuel pump query

Post by **beaver700** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:13 pm

Hi people,

For those out there who have attempted the gti conversion into a sierra. I have hit a wall at a fuel pump dilema. Because the my sierra is carbied, and the gti is EFI, a use of a high pressure fuel pump is required. However, I do not know what fuel pump to use. I have tried looking for a N12 Turbo ET / EXA High Pressure Fuel Pump, (as used on the Pulsr website), however, I have had no sucess. Does anyone know another fuel pump which would suit this conversion? With minimal modification. The pump needs to be intank...

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Post by **christover1** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:41 pm

beaver700 wrote:Hi people,

For those out there who have attempted the gti conversion into a sierra. I have hit a wall at a fuel pump dilema. Because the my sierra is carbied, and the gti is EFI, a use of a high pressure fuel pump is required. However, I do not know what fuel pump to use. I have tried looking for a N12 Turbo ET / EXA High Pressure Fuel Pump, (as used on the Pulsr website), however, I have had no sucess. Does anyone know another fuel pump which would suit this conversion? With minimal modification. The pump needs to be intank...

Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks

We often use a Vitara/Trakker Tank they have built in pumps.
christover

Post by **lilpigzuk** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:54 am

I ended up using the swift tank itself in my SJ410. Not the best idea, but I was running out of time to finish the project, and it works a treat.
Im just restarting a rebuild on my SJ413 (G13B powered) flatdeck and have just sourced a vitara tank for a tray of beer

Havent done an exact measurement but it looks like it will be close to the standard mounts (not that that is a big concern as 3 out of the 4 mounts have rusted off

)

Post by **HRZOOK** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:01 am

Half way down the page
http://home.iprimus.com.au/pulsr/g13b/h ... nicals.htm

Post by **beaver700** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:29 am

Thanks for the replies guys,

Do you know how much I am looking at for a vitara or swift tank?

I would prefer to find the right pressure fuel pump and modify the sierra tank....

Any other suggestions.

HRZOOK, on that site is where I have been getting my sources. The fuel pump featured there is very hard to find...

Thanks again

Post by **nicbeer** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:02 pm

Should be able to use a VL crummydore pump also. they mount external to the tank

Post by **jtraf** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:10 pm

If you go with the external pump you will need to run a surge tank....

The efi tanks have a swirl bowl in them to stop the motor running dry on corners and hills and stuff and to cater for this if you run the orginal tank and an external pump you will need to factor this in.

Surge tanks can be bought for around the $100 mark.

If you find someone with swb Vitara efi tanks I am interested as well.....

If you are not going to run a back seat and don't mind modding the floor a jimny tank would be excellent. I was planning this route but I want the back seat of my LWB to stay in place....

James

Post by **beaver700** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:24 pm

Gday again,

Just another question. On the gti Samurai website I have been following, it says 'the use of a high pressure fuel pump is required'. When it says high pressure. What sort of pressure is required?.

I prefer to put in an in tank fuel pump, I want to avoid the surge tank idea

Also, what sort of wiring does the fuel pump require? Does it simply need to be connected to the battery or coil?

Thanks again.

Post by **Santos** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:32 pm

thing is neither he camira or the vl have a surge tank

the idea of a surge tank is case the car has a sudden surge of fuel use leaving the pump pumping air into the stream,

In all fairness a pump that put out for a 3l plus application probably would never fall into trap as it be suppling a motor displacing one third of its total output.

(a lot of early efi bikes have external pumps , haven;t seen a surgetank one yet)

Post by **christover1** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:37 pm

the other choice many make, is to mount the high pressure pump just below the tank, so it has a constant supply, thus not needing a surge tank..Though it still may be wise, some efi pumps are very costly, and die quick if they suck air..
Some off road angles may cause concern...
Overheating of the pump can be an issue, too, so make sure its mounted with plenty of fresh air round it.

christover

Post by **jtraf** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:59 pm

surge tank is more for the fact that offroad angles may starve the car on angles....Surge tank picks up from the bottom and not the middle or side like some tanks.

Easiest bet is to get a vitara tank or coily sierra tank and fit internal pump to it.......

I am right in the middle of this myself....

Post by **beaver700** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:44 pm

Does a vitara tank fit up to a sierra gti setup? What I mean is will the fuel pump already in the tank be suitable?

Thanks

Post by **christover1** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:58 pm

beaver700 wrote:Does a vitara tank fit up to a sierra gti setup? What I mean is will the fuel pump already in the tank be suitable?

Thanks

We have at least one car in our club running the Vitara tank/pump...Its into a turbo cappucino motor, in a Sierra. He has had no trouble with it.
I'm sure there are others, but brain has gone to bed before I did.

christover

Post by **Toos** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:26 pm

I use a Holden Statesman external fuel pump on my gti engine below the fuel tank with no surge tank. I have never had a problem with it angles or any other time. Cost about $170 new. Fuelmiser brand part number FPE-240.

Post by **beaver700** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:42 pm

Gday again,

I was just wondering if a fuel pump similar to this one would suit this conversion. It doesnt require a surge tank, it will fit perfectly into my sierra tank, and has a filter sock

. I was just wondering if my fuel lines would need to be replaced with higher pressure fuel lines

which would cost a fortune knowing my luck...

It has reasonably high pressure, would this be too powerful?

Thanks for replying and helping me with this dilema folks !

Regards

This is the link to the pump:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... %3AIT&rd=1

Post by **jtraf** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:28 pm

carby sierra tanks are pretty much sealed so how do you install that pump?

Your going to need an external pump if you use your original tank

Post by **beaver700** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:45 pm

Hi,

Just a quick question. Would a 1.3 1986 zook have an intank pump or an external pump near the cylinder head?

Would it be possibly to cut a hole big enough to fit the an assembly into the tank, then seal it up with sealant after the job, similar to the one on this website?

http://home.iprimus.com.au/pulsr/g13b/ (under mechanicals, halfway down page)

Thanks again

Post by **bazooked** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:08 pm

here is the answer to all ur problems if ya wanna choose to go this route as i have just done this on my 1.6 vit conversion. first of all there is no external pump on the market especially high pressure that sucks and pushes fuel, they only push so to speak, all the commodore external ones have a pre pump in the tank to feed the high pressure pump. if u use the coomy pump on its own it will be very noisy and u will void ur warranty because the pump is workin harder than it should be and wont last as long. ive got 2 pumps on mine , a 10 to 14 psi electric pn ge143 which i used to feed the vl pump, pn geo34 which is 36.2 psi same as the vit injected pressure. i fired it up today and you cant even hear the pumps running

. i went this way because i had a longrange tank and i didnt want to waste it or cut it up, so hopefully this should work a treat. thos part numbers are out of the goss book which coventries or veal use and both are around the $150 each mark.

Post by **beaver700** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:48 pm

Is there any particular reason why people tend to use commodore pumps?

Post by **bazooked** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:51 pm

/|\

Post by **Gwagensteve** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:49 am

G'day beaver,

"High pressure" means around 40+PSI
All of your soft lines will need to be changed for EFI line.
For us in Australia, we have to look for very rare coil sierra tanks if we want to do a drop in EFI conversion. Coil tanks have a swirl pot built in to them for the internal pump to sit in. this prevents the pump running dry.

However, the US market had EFI samurais in '91. These should have an internal pump in the tank.

IMHO it is not feasible to modify the tank to take a internal pump. to do it properly (i.e install a swirl pot inside the tank) it would be easier to build a new tank from scratch.

It would be possible to use a tank from a sidekick/tracker, there are a couple of different configurations and they will go in but none of them are a straight fit. There will be work on the mounts and your exhaust and rear shocks would have to move.

If there is no need to keep much load area, a sidekick/tracker tank can be fitted through the floor in the rear as they have a flat mounting flange. This gives excellent ground clearance, but interior space and messyness including having fuel lines and power in the cab with you is a hassle.

as has been pointed out, if you want to run your tank with the efi set up, the correct way will be to use a lift pump (external) feeding fuel into a surge tank, and then the high pressure feed pump drawing out of the bottom of the surge tank. The return line runs into the surge tank. This way, the surge tank will always be full.

This is required as there is no baffling at all inside a stock samurai tank and with the high flow of an EFI pump, if fuel sloshes away from the pickup, the car will stall almost immediately. Obviously this could be pretty dangerous.

As you can imagine, by the time you buy a surge tank, two pumps and all the other required junk (hose, fittings etc) it starts to look like you want a stock 91 samurai tank or to adapt a sidekick/tracker tank. these shouldn't be too dear from a wrecker.

Steve.

Post by **beaver700** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:32 am

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Steve,

So you think I need to two pumps...and a surge tank. Where abouts could I mount these on the sierra, where they could be out of the way. What sort of pumps would you recommend, are the commodore pumps best to use (for avaiability and price - ...quality), or are there other alternatives.

Thanks to all who are contributing,

Beaver

Post by **bazooked** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:34 am

no all high pressure pumps start at 40 psi, the range for efi pumps start at around 2.9 psi up to 65 psi. as i stated before the suzuki high pressure pumps are all 36.2 psi, same as the commy ones this is why they get used. i also wouldnot recomend using a higher pressure pump as ur gonna stuff around with ur relief vale which is built in to ur injector rail and put extra stress on ur lines.

Post by **beaver700** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:40 am

Gday,

would this be a suitable surge tank for this conversion?
Not sure on size, but I could ask

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Fuel-Surge-Tank- ... dZViewItem

Thanks

Post by **beaver700** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:56 am

I dont suppose anyone has photos of where they mounted their fuel pumps ?

I heard of one bloke using his gti swift tank with fuel pump, and it worked a treat!

What do you think about that idea?

Thanks fellas

Post by **beaver700** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:05 am

On looking around on ebay (of course) I came across this pump

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CALAIS-BERLINA-C ... dZViewItem

Would this be suitable for one of the two pumps I require.

If I need two pumps, exactly what sort do they need to be ? It would be good if they were common, that would save me looking all over the countryside for parts.

Thanks

Post by **bazooked** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:15 pm

are my posts invisible? as i stated above there r part numbers and were to get em from and here is a link to my thread, if ya cant work it out from here well may the force be with u.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... 3&start=90

Post by **beaver700** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:49 am

Gday again,

Now with these VL fuel pumps, where do you think it would be suitable to wire them to?. Maybe the ignition ? If yes what prangs are there to look out for?.

Thanks again,

Post by **Spike_Sierra** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:17 pm

just an update -

ive put a deposit down on a jimny motor, so im in the save boat as beaver dude..

ive got a vl pump from a wreckers today for next to nothing..

model number bosch 0 580 464 050
12v 014 747-27

what ever that means, i didnt see any pn geo 34 on it as bazooked mentioned, but its definatly from a vl.

beaver, any updates.

next mission is to get a pre pump.

edit: also found this

I have since fitted a fuel pump from a vl turbo reported to be good up to 400
hp.(bosch part number 0 580 464 070)

so now we have part numbers for both vl and vl turbo pumps

Post by **rgzook** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:21 am

when i done the 1.6 simgle point conversion in my zook i used a faset pump to lift the fuel out of the tank and then i used a pressure pump from the vl and the camira.

So you can keep the zook tank if you like...

RGZOOK

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Gti Samurai fuel pump query

Gti Samurai fuel pump query

Re: Gti Samurai fuel pump query

Who is online