Vitara cv strength

[Wolverine]

OK before you start to flame, I have read all the posts on lifting the vit and excess drop etc and how it affects the cv angles and that causes them to break.

SO would it be fair to say that the strongest set up (without modifying it) would be the stock set up. Ie no lift and stock spring travel.

I have read all the carnage stories but I want to run 33' muds. I have got them on without lifting it so everything is stock.

SO what are your opinions on the strength with this set up.

Before you ask I want to play in the rocks, have the standard gearing with 5.12s, locked rear and possibly wanting to weld the front.

[bazooked]

i reckon be prepared to bust the ali housing.

[CHOPZUKI]

your front end is going to scatter all over the rocks if you weld it

[Wolverine]

Yeah good point, when that happens I will look at the price of a steel one from a grand vit. If too expensive then I will be looking at SAS I guess.

But so far spares for the vit have not been too pricey as the wrecker has heaps. When I got some spare cv's off him he said hewas pretty sure they were the first ones he had sold.
It appears people over here dont abuse vitaras YET

but any way is it the load that causes the housing to break or do they go from smashing into things.

Cheers

[antt]

anything causes them to break, too bigger tires, hittin something, getting bound up, driving over the gutter.

if you're playin on the rocks with 33's, you'll break a cv every 1 or two trips out. i broke 2 in 2 days at a comp which finally gave me the shits enough to swap in hilux diffs

[GV_Qld]

I'm not going as far as antt, i'm only upgrading the CV's..

[Wolverine]

What cv's are they?

[SiKiD_01]

What cv's are they?

HILUX

[cj]

USD$300 for the parts to adapt them. The guy who is making the fitting kits runs 37" rubber with the Hilux shafts and they seem to be working out great. I have some waiting to go into my new Vit.

[mysterioussasvit]

dont even bother with ifs it will end up costing you more in parts than a sas conversion. ie.diffs cvs bracketry and scary with no travel in a shorty going down hill

[cj]

I quite like my IFS and it's never been scary. Now with a few solutions around to some of the old problems it's actually not too bad at all. Mine works quite well.

[mysterioussasvit]

yeh i had mine sorted with ok travel in front. but when all the weight is on the front wheels no up travel. and this got uglly on a few occasions when you have to drive through a small rut. but with sas same track same rut no probs.

[Wolverine]

That toyota cv mod looks good. So I assume you run it with a steel cast gv diff?

[cj]

You don't have to but if you do you have pretty much solved the weak points of the front end.

If you want an alternative locker to the ARB then have a look at Trail Tough. They now have an auto locker for the front of a Vitara/Sidekick for USD$299.

http://www.trailtough.com/sidekick.htm

[Wolverine]

I found a steel diff from a 98 grand vitara today. My vit is a 92.
What do I need, is it just the diff. Will the centre and cv's etc from mine fit into that or do I need the whole lot.

I am assuming it is just a bolt in replacement.

Cheers

[Wolverine]

Also is this the toyota adapter kit. Is the spacer attached to the flange for the passenger side and bolts to the toy cv.

But what is the deal with the other thing. I cant visualise how that fits.

["CANADA"]

Also is this the toyota adapter kit. Is the spacer attached to the flange for the passenger side and bolts to the toy cv.

But what is the deal with the other thing. I cant visualise how that fits.

hub spacer by the looks of it...

[Wolverine]

Just a though, that spacer for the flange would be nice and easy for the passenger side and for the drivers side you could do the "hagen" mod to allow the driver's side to run the easy pull out cv (pass side cv) and then you would only need another spacer. You would also not need the hub spacer as both cv's would be the passenger side ones and would be bolt on.

This would mean the stubb axle that goes into the diff centre on the drivers side would still be vit though, does tyhis usually break or is it cv that goes first. But then again it appeasr that the cv mod still runs the vit axle on the pass side.

Does this make sense or am I all wrong.

Please feel free to find faults in my theory, ifs is all new to me!!!!

[SiKiD_01]

with stock CV drive shaft angles, the cvs are pretty good.

its when you start lifting the front IFS 3" or more, that the angle becomes too extreme. this is were the CVs are weakest, as they will have about 60% contact and strength as compared to stock.

ok, picture this: stock ride height, CV and shafts are parrallel to the ground.

la 3" lift on the ride height and IFS, and the angle gets pretty steep. this is on the flat.

but now, remember, when the suspension cycles, there is also more droop and compression.

i have 3.5" lift on the front of my vit, and with OME struts, i have a further 4" of droop from that height. so now, when the front tyre comes off the ground, the actual measurement is about 7.5" lower than stock. this angle is not anywhere near where a CV can operate at its strongest, and this will break.

further, if you are turning/steering, and the front suspension is in droop, you can create a situation where the CV might as well be made out of match sticks.

this is why calmini have front diff lowering brackets. they lower the front diff about 2", which almost allows an acceptable working range for the CVs and shafts.

running a left side axle on the right only means faster changes on the trail or when out wheeling. people (hagen) were always breaking CVs, so a quick and easy change meant less time off the track.

hilux CVs are the same both sides (please correct me if i am wrong) and if you get the hilux IFS kit, it will be the same as running a left side axle on the right, but with a shite load more strength, esp when only running 31"-33" tyres.

the other flange/adapter is for the hilux free wheeling hub. the suzuki one will not fit the hilux shafts.

[Wolverine]

I see makes sense now! I think for now I will get the steel diff and see how I go with the stock cv's for a while. I might still "hagen" it for convenience of changing. At this point I have an ample supply of cheap cv's.

I am hoping with the stock set up and with a fair bit of panel and other things removed the reduced weight will also work in my favour.

So back to the housing question. Will a diff housing from a 98 grand vit bolt up to my 92. and is the housing all I need.

[cj]

running a left side axle on the right only means faster changes on the trail or when out wheeling. people (hagen) were always breaking CVs, so a quick and easy change meant less time off the track.

..................

the other flange/adapter is for the hilux free wheeling hub. the suzuki one will not fit the hilux shafts.

Actually it also means that you only have to carry one type of spare and the other items are a replacement bush to suit the new shaft dia. and a freewheeling hub spacer due to the increased length of the outer Toy shaft.[/b]

[cj]

So back to the housing question. Will a diff housing from a 98 grand vit bolt up to my 92. and is the housing all I need.

Yes

[Wolverine]

Cheers for all your help guys. I guess I will start on it tomorrow arvo!!!!

[Wolverine]

Sorry one more question.

Is the back half of the diff (centre/3rd member or what ever you call it) on vits alloy aswell. if it is I guess it is a weak point also.

If so I will need to get the Gv centre.

[GV_Qld]

yes, grap that too. I'm running a complete GV and arb locker in the front with the mod to run the same cv/driveshaft both sides. i was braking a cv every 3 to 4 trips. after the hilux cv mod this should be a thing of the pass

[Wolverine]

GV_QLD did you have to redrill the hole for the a-arms on both sides for the mod to runn the three bolt flange cv on both sides.


I was reading the write up and it didnt state if you did it on both. I am assuming so to keep both side even.

Here is a pic of what I mean. Also did you cut up two more axles tyo space it to the right length or did you just make a spacer to fit and if so what width was it.

Here is the link again if you dont know what I am talking about.

http://www.zukiworld.com/month_120102/f ... endmod.htm


Cheers

[SiKiD_01]

if you have read the article, and looked/searched on zukiworld, you would know that it is the Hagen front end WIDENING mod.

this is one of the old school mods that were done to widen the front end (to match a rear dana/ford/wagon diff widths). it also allowed vits to run bigger tyres, as redrilling the REAR mounting holes moves the ball joint outwards and forwards. this gives more firewall clearance.

(its also like when a IFS toyota surf/4runner does a SAS, the rear diff on a IFS is wider than its SA counterpart. so when a yota IFS goes SAS, they need to fit a widening kit or wheel spacers to give extra width to match the rear)

now because the actual hub spindles have been moved out about an inch, they have had to make spacers to fit the original CVs. if you dont make spacers, the axle shafts would be too short and fall apart or explode.

you can cut the right hand side inner CV cup, and weld a 3 bolt left hand side flange on to take a left hand side axle shaft. this does not require any spacers, as you have not widened the front end. this also may not be the ideal way to go about doing it, as there are other ways. (such as CJ's machined stub with bearing and seal combo)

running a left hand side axle on the right hand side means you are preparing your vit for CV breakages on the trail or when wheeling, and a quick fix/change can see you continueing the trip, but it also means you are not prepared to go SAS or splash out for the american yota CV shaft kit.

so run the left hand side axle on the right hand side if you think you will be going hard every weekend expecting to break a CV.

IMHO, there are other mods that are more practical on a vit than running left hand side axles both sides, or the hagen widening. (things like sorting out the suspension, and how to make it work better, or fitting a locker to the rear diff, or some crawler gears etc.) but by all means, if you want to give it ago, please do. i havent done it yet because i havent had the need to. (and plus i'm planning a 6" IFS lift, not including my 3" BL!)

and Hagen is the name of the guy who 1st did the widening mod, thats why its called that.

[cj]

running a left hand side axle on the right hand side means you are preparing your vit for CV breakages on the trail or when wheeling, and a quick fix/change can see you continueing the trip, but it also means you are not prepared to go SAS or splash out for the american yota CV shaft kit.

Actually I am prepared to splash out on the Toy shaft kit as I picked up some shafts and hubs a while ago in preparation for the mod. Even a Toy shaft can bust and how do you think you fit the same Toy shaft on both sides? You will still need to modify the drivers side to accept it.

[SiKiD_01]

running a left hand side axle on the right hand side means you are preparing your vit for CV breakages on the trail or when wheeling, and a quick fix/change can see you continueing the trip, but it also means you are not prepared to go SAS or splash out for the american yota CV shaft kit.

Actually I am prepared to splash out on the Toy shaft kit as I picked up some shafts and hubs a while ago in preparation for the mod. Even a Toy shaft can bust and how do you think you fit the same Toy shaft on both sides? You will still need to modify the drivers side to accept it.

i wish i could get the toy shaft kit. just likei wish i could get the calmini 3" lift kit, and some crawler gears too. but all those are way out of my reach. so for those who can afford it, just do it.

OK before you start to flame, I have read all the posts on lifting the vit and excess drop etc and how it affects the cv angles and that causes them to break.

SO would it be fair to say that the strongest set up (without modifying it) would be the stock set up. Ie no lift and stock spring travel.

SO what are your opinions on the strength with this set up.

Before you ask I want to play in the rocks, have the standard gearing with 5.12s, locked rear and possibly wanting to weld the front.

and for wolverine, are you worried you are going to break your CVs? have you broken one yet? or are you trying to avoid the CV breaking situation before it ever happens? i've always gone out, and when something breaks, i come back and try to make it better, or try to prevent it breaking again. if you break something, you will have a good idea of how well it holds up and how much it can take before it breaks, and also what you can do before it lets go.

[Wolverine]

Thanks guys for the info.

Sikid I am expecting to break cvs so I am looking at a way to ease the pain when it happens. I basically want to be able to easily and quickley change them over. Thasts why I was looking at the hagen mod, more for the quick changing than the widening or anything else. I know it doesnt make the front stronger, its more about harm reduction!!!!!

Things like suspension and gearing are not real concerns at the moment as it is a budget beater. The toy cv mod kit would be nice but would cost nearly as much as the car. The rear is welded already and is .

Like you said it will be a matter of drive it and see what happens with the front. If I dont break a cv all the time then cool but if I do and it becomes too much of a PITA then I will look at the other options.

I am going to get some axles today/tomorrow and cut them up on the weekend. Will post on how it goes.

Cheers