winch mount idea

[shakes]

Was toying with the idea to mount my winch in a cradle with a "haymen reese" style tongue on the back of it and modify the bullbar to suit.

It'll keep my winch outa 90% of the crap and let me winch front or back if needed. and save some weight right up front.

the only major issue's I can see is strength and being abit annoying diggin out a big heavy winch while waist deep in mud! It'll be going on a rangey ute

Cheers
Simon

[of4x4]

you mean like this?

http://www.brawn4x4.com.au/port_a_winch.htm

[sierrajim]

you mean like this?

http://www.brawn4x4.com.au/port_a_winch.htm

Great in theory however:

1. They (as you said) are heavy, PITA to drag through a bog hole.
2. When mounted in such a way they greatly decrease approach or departure angles potentially damaging the winch.

have been there and done it before on my old vit when i was being lazy and couldn't be bothered building a bar to mount the winch to.

[toughnut]

Have you thought about how you would wire it up? Another way you could mount it is under the tray facing backwards. Run the cable from the winch to the back of the tray (where you have a fairlead) around a pulley and route it under the cab and out a fairlead at the front and finish it with a hook. If you want to winch forward it wont be any different to normal and if you want to winch backwards then you just feed the portion of the cable that wraps around the pulley at the rear, through the rear fairlead and attach a snatch block and hook to the cable. Winching rearward would always be slower because it will always be a double line pull. Not that you would want to winch too fast rearwards anyway. There is a pic on this site of a landy that has this setup. It looks really trick. I just don't have time to find it.

[droopypete]

Have you thought about how you would wire it up? Another way you could mount it is under the tray facing backwards. Run the cable from the winch to the back of the tray (where you have a fairlead) around a pulley and route it under the cab and out a fairlead at the front and finish it with a hook. If you want to winch forward it wont be any different to normal and if you want to winch backwards then you just feed the portion of the cable that wraps around the pulley at the rear, through the rear fairlead and attach a snatch block and hook to the cable. Winching rearward would always be slower because it will always be a double line pull. Not that you would want to winch too fast rearwards anyway. There is a pic on this site of a landy that has this setup. It looks really trick. I just don't have time to find it.

I may be wrong here but when using it for a front pull wouldn't that turn an 8000 pound winch into a 6000 (or less)?
Peter

[lilpigzuk]

Have you thought about how you would wire it up? Another way you could mount it is under the tray facing backwards. Run the cable from the winch to the back of the tray (where you have a fairlead) around a pulley and route it under the cab and out a fairlead at the front and finish it with a hook. If you want to winch forward it wont be any different to normal and if you want to winch backwards then you just feed the portion of the cable that wraps around the pulley at the rear, through the rear fairlead and attach a snatch block and hook to the cable. Winching rearward would always be slower because it will always be a double line pull. Not that you would want to winch too fast rearwards anyway. There is a pic on this site of a landy that has this setup. It looks really trick. I just don't have time to find it.

http://www.red-ibex.com/vector_winch_system.htm

This winch system is protected by world wide patents, Therefore if you copy the system you can expect the wrath of lawyers from Foers Engineering. This page is intended to educate the inquisitive 4x4 enthusiast only

[toughnut]

Have you thought about how you would wire it up? Another way you could mount it is under the tray facing backwards. Run the cable from the winch to the back of the tray (where you have a fairlead) around a pulley and route it under the cab and out a fairlead at the front and finish it with a hook. If you want to winch forward it wont be any different to normal and if you want to winch backwards then you just feed the portion of the cable that wraps around the pulley at the rear, through the rear fairlead and attach a snatch block and hook to the cable. Winching rearward would always be slower because it will always be a double line pull. Not that you would want to winch too fast rearwards anyway. There is a pic on this site of a landy that has this setup. It looks really trick. I just don't have time to find it.

I may be wrong here but when using it for a front pull wouldn't that turn an 8000 pound winch into a 6000 (or less)?
Peter

Not sure how it would reduce it when the cable is only going through one pulley to turn the running direction 180 degrees. You only use the pulley to stop the cable from rubbing on turn points.

[toughnut]

Have you thought about how you would wire it up? Another way you could mount it is under the tray facing backwards. Run the cable from the winch to the back of the tray (where you have a fairlead) around a pulley and route it under the cab and out a fairlead at the front and finish it with a hook. If you want to winch forward it wont be any different to normal and if you want to winch backwards then you just feed the portion of the cable that wraps around the pulley at the rear, through the rear fairlead and attach a snatch block and hook to the cable. Winching rearward would always be slower because it will always be a double line pull. Not that you would want to winch too fast rearwards anyway. There is a pic on this site of a landy that has this setup. It looks really trick. I just don't have time to find it.

http://www.red-ibex.com/vector_winch_system.htm

This winch system is protected by world wide patents, Therefore if you copy the system you can expect the wrath of lawyers from Foers Engineering. This page is intended to educate the inquisitive 4x4 enthusiast only

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Cheers.

[shakes]

exactly what i was planning! thanks for the idea's

main reason for doing this is I have a winch but just a std arb bar. for the amount of time i actually use it (and time to mod the existing bar), thats lookin the way to go.

Thanks
Simon

[droopypete]

I may be wrong here but when using it for a front pull wouldn't that turn an 8000 pound winch into a 6000 (or less)?
Peter

Not sure how it would reduce it when the cable is only going through one pulley to turn the running direction 180 degrees. You only use the pulley to stop the cable from rubbing on turn points.

I am only a closet physicist and may get shot down here, but here goes,
if the winch is facing rearward at the centre of the car and running through a fixed pully which changes the pulls direction by 180 degree's with the hook exiting the front, and we say the winch is pulling 8000 pounds,
assuming there is no friction on the pully (which there is) wouldn't the winch be trying to pull the pully in as much as the hook?

To put it another way if the pully wasn't fixed to the car, could you hold it by hand while it was pulling 8000 pounds? I think not, so there must be some power loss to the hook through the pully, there will be a formula for it I am sure but I was at the pin ball machines the day they talked about that

Ok there is my theory, shoot me down or prop me up, I want answers
Peter.

[ausoops]

yes you will lose a bees dick of force due to friction, but there are no other losses apart from that.

and with that link, the drawing of the red car (his so called cable car mode) don't do it. it will rip your winch out of its housing or break the cable/shackles.

[SLOGQ]

I seem to remember when i got my riggers ticket ( a few years ago its a bit fuzzy), that running a cable through a snatch block at 180 degrees doubled its force. I thing they call it sheving or something........

But i cant be sure

[toughnut]

I seem to remember when i got my riggers ticket ( a few years ago its a bit fuzzy), that running a cable through a snatch block at 180 degrees doubled its force. I thing they call it sheving or something........

But i cant be sure

You're half right. For winching to double the force you use a double line pull which attaches the hook to the vehicle and a pulley (snatch block) to an anchor point. As for losing pulling force through a fixed pulley like that it wont happen because you are not changing the line speed. Follow me for a moment. If you do a double line pull you increase the pull of the winch but you slow the line speed of the hook because it doubles back on itself. If the hook is attatched to the anchor point then the line speed and pulling power will not change. The only difference you will have is a minute decrease in power due to the extra friction involved with routing a cable like that.

[DaveS3]

Similar Thing. A few guys in the LROCV have this style setup, using either eletric or PTO winches.

[80UTE]

I seem to remember when i got my riggers ticket ( a few years ago its a bit fuzzy), that running a cable through a snatch block at 180 degrees doubled its force. I thing they call it sheving or something........

But i cant be sure

You're half right. For winching to double the force you use a double line pull which attaches the hook to the vehicle and a pulley (snatch block) to an anchor point. As for losing pulling force through a fixed pulley like that it wont happen because you are not changing the line speed. Follow me for a moment. If you do a double line pull you increase the pull of the winch but you slow the line speed of the hook because it doubles back on itself. If the hook is attatched to the anchor point then the line speed and pulling power will not change. The only difference you will have is a minute decrease in power due to the extra friction involved with routing a cable like that.

Nicely put makes sense and is correct, its no different to the winch cable exiting the front fair lead at 90 deg when doing a side pull apart from friction no change in capacity.

wally

[droopypete]

I seem to remember when i got my riggers ticket ( a few years ago its a bit fuzzy), that running a cable through a snatch block at 180 degrees doubled its force. I thing they call it sheving or something........

But i cant be sure

You're half right. For winching to double the force you use a double line pull which attaches the hook to the vehicle and a pulley (snatch block) to an anchor point. As for losing pulling force through a fixed pulley like that it wont happen because you are not changing the line speed. Follow me for a moment. If you do a double line pull you increase the pull of the winch but you slow the line speed of the hook because it doubles back on itself. If the hook is attatched to the anchor point then the line speed and pulling power will not change. The only difference you will have is a minute decrease in power due to the extra friction involved with routing a cable like that.

Nicely put makes sense and is correct, its no different to the winch cable exiting the front fair lead at 90 deg when doing a side pull apart from friction no change in capacity.

wally

Well if Wally says so it must be true, bugger I will go back to my closet.
Peter.

[benjamin78au]

hi guys hate to hijack, this , but just curious, how would you set it up if it was like a porta winch , style, as i think alligator clips, wouldn't handle the ampage you need to draw.

I have a 5000 pound winch , which i going to put in a cradle, and then use straps or chain to hold it to car.

Also what is the thinest plasma rope out there around the 5000 lb mark, most of the stuff is 8 or 9 thousand stuff, as i only get 15 m of cable. more could be handy.

bj

[of4x4]

benjamin78au: I'd imagine that you'd need a high amp plug/socket arrangement similar to those they use on elecric forklifts for charging / battery replacement. I couldn't find a pic in a quick look on the net, but you can sort of see the setup in the Brawn link I posted earlier (looks like a little box on the power leads).

The other end of the leads would be bolted to your battery terminals.

[benjamin78au]

yeha that is the way i was thinking, hav that style connector, up behind the head light bucket, and have about 6 meters on the winch end, i was looking in to gator clips, as it means it is an easy affair, to hook it up to some one elses 4wd.

bj

[Loanrangie]

Anderson plugs is what you need but only rated up to 350 amps.

[droopypete]

http://www.narva.com.au/Terminals_12.html