Shock questions

[DeWsE]

Hi guys,

I have been thinking about shocks, and what would be the best under a zuk. Now my first zuk I used N76 OME parts on each corner. These shocks were very smooth on the road and nice and soft on the ruf stuff. They have a 10” stroke and are designed for dune racers so you get the idea of what they are like. Unfortunately what they were not good at was helping control the suspension cycle over rocks and larger obstacles. (these cost about $140 a corner)

From what I have heard all the cool kids are using Rancho 9000 and procomps..

The advantage with the ranchos is that they can be tampered with to set the stiffness that you want. This means that if I brought them and I didn’t like the setting I could play with it till they suited my driving. (I am guessing they cost around $190 a corner)

Procomps on the other hand I have heard they are stiff even on a lux, but have the added advantage of internal bump stops, so there is no stuffing around with stops. But not being adjustable is a real down side because they can not be adjusted to suit the light weight of a zuk. (about the same cost as the rancho I think)

So my question is what shocks are people using and how are you finding with them. Part numbers would be good as well : )

PS: I'm thinking 10 inch's of travel would be good..

[grimbo]

Alrighty then here we go.

I am using the OME N76 on the front and Rancho 9012s on the rear. They were initially combined with Old Man Emu medium duty rear springs (approx seven year old springs so nicely settle in) all round with the secondary leaves removed. the rear also has a 3/4 eliptical setup. All SPUA.

This setup gave me a great ride on and off road. Flex was good and more importantly balanced and progressive, no sudden unloading of weight etc.

I then bent the front springs badly by doing something stupid. In the mad panic to try and get the car road worthy again during the whole canary debacle somehow RidePro rear springs went on the front. This threw the whole thing out of whack. I now have a very stiffly sprung front and softly sprung rear end.

I still have to fiddle with the front springs to get them right.

besides all that rambling the shocks are fine for my use. They both have sufficient travel and damping qualities. I don't muck around with the settings on the ranchos and to be honest have no idea what they are set on at the moment but I think it is 1 or 2 onthe 5 position dial. They were bought more because they were at the time the only shocks that were affordable with suffiecient travel in hem (about 7 years ago)

i hope this answers your question but I don't see why you need to know you don't even have a Sierra

[DeWsE]

Alrighty then here we go.

i hope this answers your question but I don't see why you need to know you don't even have a Sierra

It's only been a bit over a year... I have about 8 months to start wheeling my own stuff if I go by your time line tehehe

I'm in the process of selling my two cars so i can get back on it. I keep getting side traked with making it huge, then it becomes to much then I loose interest because of the cost etc.

[jeep97tj]

I would go the rancho, even if u only do 1 axle at a time, after having them on the lux im hooked.

Sure once they are set u probley wont touch them again, unless u are towing or stiffining them up u bit for off road but when u are starting something from scratch, eg different springs and shock mounting angles they will come in very handy.

Do u think u need 10" of travel on a mild sierra?? I wouldnt buy your shocks till last.

[DeWsE]

I would go the rancho, even if u only do 1 axle at a time, after having them on the lux im hooked.

Sure once they are set u probley wont touch them again, unless u are towing or stiffining them up u bit for off road but when u are starting something from scratch, eg different springs and shock mounting angles they will come in very handy.

Do u think u need 10" of travel on a mild sierra?? I wouldnt buy your shocks till last.

Yeah your right shane, but I don't want to be buying new shocks in a years time when I get bored with the wittle tires...

As for the adjusting, I only mean adjust them to suit me then leave them that way, none of this adjusting to go off road crap.

This all in mind, my plans are: soft top, Internal cage, 31's, stock ruf and stock forosa RIR (Rear In Rear) and some crawler gears. Just trying to keep it simple and cheap.

My biggest problem with the N76 was I had a hard top (weight) and springs which where a bit to soft and the mount was to far forward..

[jeep97tj]

I have a pair of trailing arms and some coils here for the rear, u know u want to

[nicbeer]

Two cars? i thought u only had 1.

What is stock RUF? are u meaning using a stock setup on the front or extending it less than you had on the last zook. With the RIR do you need to extend chassis?

I have kyb shocks in mine. good shocks for my use but might have to look at fitments to see if there is a big enough one for your use.

Rego'd or hacker.

Nic

[DeWsE]

I have a pair of trailing arms and some coils here for the rear, u know u want to

Hahaha you are so excited about doing it, But atm I don't want lift just an easy DD... Just waiting for zac to give me the money for the laser.

[redzook]

i run the procomps non adjustable stiff as a honey mooners on the road (does help tighten up the supesion alot car handles great on the road i belive these have a fair bit to do with it)

off road i like them as well normally not goin to fast so shocks dont feel that stiff

[DeWsE]

Nick I also have a VT wagon... I only got it recently thats why you don't know about it. Was a good price and I wanted something different. But I'm over it already.. can't drive speed humps coz it's to low, can't rub curbs coz of the rims etc.. It was a good price at the time.

This car will be rego'd. I meant Stock rears up front, none of this swanky OME $200 a piece buiso. Tim used a RRO YJ it from memory to mount the Foroza, but like you know the chassis has about 100mm on the rear to play with unlike the front. I'm undecided on the RUF at this stage, but i'm not worried about extending the chassis. (I will get it engineered this time though I think)

Timmy, cheers for the answer. I know you used the rancho on redzook1 so figured you have been able to compare them. I would prefer a tight suspension system on the road so I'm not hitting the bumpstops going around corners.

I also like the idea of them because they will help control the amount of cycle at slow speed unlike something that is softer and doesn't hold it as well. I LIKE TO CRAWL

Although I will not have near as much unsprung weight as you so they will be alot different. But on the other hand I will have to lean these over a bit to get them in without any lift.

Cheers for the imput guys

[markil]

I'm a cool kid I run the pro comps. Like Tim said, they are pretty stiff on a zook, but they work well and they give a decent ride out of them on and offroad.

[bushpig59]

This subject about shocks is not going to die here's my2 cents worth...
Sorry cant talk now 4WD TV is now on......
Will Post more in 30mins.........
I really will!!

Well I am back from 4WD TV

Look at this link
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... 732eb71970
As this has more on the subject of springs
Went out last week end in the mud bowl and hill climbs and she worked well...

[Gwagensteve]

Dewse,

Having bought, dyno'ed and fitted Rancho's on sierras (and my G, and my Dad's 80) I would say that i fyou are going to fab mounts, I would go N76 for a sierra.

Rancho won't release dyno information and believe that any 9000 will work in any application it fits in because of the adjustment range.

THIS IS NOT TRUE!!!! Some of them will be totally incorrect for a sierra.

I can't see the point in buying a $200+ shock that might have whacky valving that you an never really "adjust" to be right.

99009's might be cool. (but are very soft, and have the less travel than a N76's) 99112's are almost the same as a N76, but tend to get run on 1-2 all the time on the front of a sierra.

with a soft top and a 31, I think the N76 will be sweet, and be very hard to beat for value for money. They are going on my next project. Maybe, if you had a much heavier wheel tyre combination and a higher COG, they might be a bit soft, but the cars running them here in melbourne with up to a q78 seem pretty happy on them.

Steve.

[duncan]

Dewse if you want Ranchos let me no ill get them for you real cheap pm me if you want them

[Gwagensteve]

Never, ever, ever, ever use the "bumpstops" in some shocks as axle bumpstops. they are NOT designed for this and neither are your shock bushes/mounts (or your suspension geometry)

The "internal" bumpstops on some shocks are designed to prevent metal/metal bottoming in the shock should all else fail and are not a substitute for correctly placed axle bumpstops.

I shuddered hen I saw Fred Williams in Petersens doing this with Clampy before UA'05, because I thought that lots of other people would think they could do it too.

Remember that your shocks should always have 1" of compression left when your axle is hard bottomed on its bumpstops. This will prevent shock, mount etc damage.

Mosrt shock positions will prevent useful leverage being developed on the drooped wheel because the shock mounts outboard of the spring anyway (or the bottom mount is very close to the spring) so you will be loosing effective travel if you "bumpstop" your car via the shocks in any case.

[lay80n]

Didnt Fred state that the shocks he was using (cant remember the shocks brand and cant find the issue dammit) have a built in bumpstop designed for this. Not that i am saying its a good idea, as really i dont like the idea as it stressed the shocks and mounts in ways not designed for. I been lookin at now shocks for my rig too and had pretty much decided on the N76's too, nice to see that i am not way off track. Currently run RS5000 in the front, and crappy ones monroe ones in the rear till i finnish it off.
Layto....

[Toj0]

I had the rancho's in the rear and found them to be great under the coily when I was on suzi diffs, but found them lacking when I went over to hilux diffs, the added weight of the diff seemed to negate the earlier smoothness.

Since the diff swap and winch I have run pro comp 9000's (gas) in the front. These have been great with the added weight from the winch, diffs and bigger tyres, however if your thinking about a stock suzi, why not go the pro comp 3000's? They are foam filled not gas therefore not as harsh a ride.

The pro-comp dealer explained the difference being - the 9000's (gas) will physically push the wheel down into a hole (active resistance) whereas the 3000's (foam) will allow the weight of the vehicle and diffs etc to do all the work by providing passive resistance. (I guess this is similar to a dampner)

[Gwagensteve]

A couple of points Tojo,

When discussing the effectiveness of Ranchos for you application, please state the part number.

Nearly all RS9000's are valved differently so the part number you have tried might be very critical to your opinion of their performance.

In relation to gas vs foam shocks, I think the dealer you are buying product from has a very strange way of selling product.

Gas shocks are not designed or intended to assist in forcing wheels anywhere. Gas shocks self extend for the same reason an air shock works - the nitrogen in the shock is compressed by the rod of the shock displacing more volume inside the shock, so when the load is removed, it gradually pushes the rod back out.

This action is usually very slow (if the shock has useful rebound damping) and something you will notice is that the amount of force required to stop the shock self extending can appear quite large but once you stop it, they are ususally quite happy to sit where they are (i.e they will not push a load any distance)

The self extending effect is a by product of the gas pressure used in the shock to stop the oil foaming. It is not a feature that "pushes wheels down"

the ES 3000 is a foam cell shock. These shocks use foam like roll bar padding between the outer tube of the shock and the inner tube. This tries to prevent the foaming. (once the oil foams, the valving becomes much less effective, and your shocks "fade")

With the advent of softly sprung (coil) cars with large suspension travel, (Range Rover onwards) shock valving needed to become much stiffer because coil cars have little or no friction in their suspension . This stiffer valving works the shock much harder and causes the oil to foam much quicker. Gas pressure shocks became more prevalent becuause they perform better under high load/stiff valving than foam cell shocks. They can be valved anyway you like but most you come across will have soft compression/stiff rebound which is typical of coil sprung setups where the objective is to counter the bounce that coil cars have. This is not really the hot setup for a sierra though, as you have noted.

when the damping is very soft, there is less need for a gas shock as they do not suffer foaming as badly.

OME N76's are a gas pressure shock and they are not harsh at all, they are very softly valved in both compression and rebound. They were intended for volkswagen based race buggies and as such are intended to a soft spring, light car and long term use, so the gas is useful to stop fade.

Steve.

[germo]

I have pro comps in my sierra.

i think there great for handling, and not a problem off road. good for slow stuff. and good handling when going fast

mine are gas and 5 stage adjust.

and I have been running them on the stiffest setting. the rears are at 45 degrees, so this half the effect.

and the fron has 1 inch of up travel, so I'd rather the shock stop as much bump as it can, so the bump stops don't get slam as hard, and hopefully stop the diff bending!! as much.

putting new springs in the front, to give more room!

enjoy ashley

[roc box]

i run ranchos in the front cant remember the n.o off the top of my head can get it if ya want though and monroe gas in the rear .the fronts have 10 in travel [roughly]the rears have abuout the same ,theyre to suit 2in lifted lux.they have plenty enough travel for the 3/4 spoa heres a pic to show what sort of travel they have

[roc box]

sorry mate pics dont seem to be working