Auto or maunal??

[fnqcairns]

Bogged, you really need to fix your diet, to suit one of your typical paddys....err... posts the texture looks all wrong this time round

Jessie not really interested in training you but like many skills a person will have a hard time comprehending it without being able to do it, it is not used 100% of the time it is used when and if the extra control is needed and it shits on the sluggish go-wo power supplied by an auto.

Precisely the reason why trials bikes that are auto/centrifugal are at a lower level of competency in that arena. Weight is not an issue (who is going to hop a 2 T 4wd 1m ) , it is simply the control (control is control regardless of gearing) that the manual system allows over an auto if the technique is used (Trials bikes use the EXACTLY the same technique) regardless of application was the point, it is hard won with practice, nothing less.

But unless you know you will never know, practice it replace a clutch and see what it can do for you (not that I care). Unless you own an auto! learn it come back and tell me it doesn't work you will then be able to tell me why!

cheers fnq

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

I like autos for the simple fact u can left foot brake.

[jessie928]

fnq,

bloke you have no idea what my competencies are ;P
now you have turned it into a mission to try and prove with " myths" and statements how manuals are better than auto's if the user is trained as a quantum pysicist with a masters in heel and toe'ing.

you are fighting a loosing battle....



Jes

[fnqcairns]

Hi Jessie no battle I really don't care that much one way or another. It's a forum take it or leave it. I could be blowing it all out my ass or I may not be, but unless you have done it it's hard to take you serious as nothing you said sounded like someone who was talking from practical experience.

I am sure some who have the experience, don't like the technique for slow work and prefer an auto regardless but someone who has never done it cannot know. I used to be able to do it OK, today I have lots of trouble I found out and prefer to use the basic driving technique I use in shopping centres or an auto.

I have never stopped using the less skillful application of it. Anything more and I cannot do it without thinking hard and mucking up. A couple of easy applications in 4wd one is on steep slippery hill starts and another is slow to very slow underway to talk the LSD into helping more due to brake force when needed. Anyway it's a big world.

cheers fnq

[redzook]

I like autos for the simple fact u can left foot brake.

i left foot brake in my manual a fair bit

but auto v's manual no doubt auto is the best

[Shorty40]

In the process of swapping the buggy to auto.

No question in my mind. Auto all the way

[-Scott-]

Nah it's a skill and you mentioned another application I can still do that OK-ish, a good analogy is trials bikes where those with the skill will chose a manual clutch and consider the centrifugal clutch bikes a bit of a joke.

FFS! Stick to the subject! Centrifugal clutches and torque converters are not the same thing!

You are arguing abuse of a manual clutch system to achieve the same performance provided as standard by an auto. I reckon I can hold an auto on a steep hill much longer than you can hold the same place while slipping the clutch in your manual.

And, in case you're wondering, I've never owned an auto in my life.

Scott

[Gwagensteve]

FNQ,

The ONLY time you can match an auto with a manaul is with extremely low gearing and a light, responsive car. Greg's 660cc manual sierra (1200kg wet, 120:1 low range) is great fun, but the car we are building for him now is an auto with the same crawl ratio once corrected by the converter.

I have extensively driven auto and manual cars offroad and trying to clutch slip, heel and toe and otherwise play around with a manual is never, ever going to match an auto for capability.

I maintain that an auto isn't easier to drive off road than a manual. There are lots of tricks and vehicle knowledge that are required to get the best out of an auto. I have seen lots of very badly driven autos, but even the best manual drivers will be packing death on the same stuff that the auto driver will just breeze through.

I have no idea what Fnq has driven, built or seen, but IMHO it is no comparison, th harder the terrain you want to drive, the more you need an auto.

Control over the engines torque delivery SEPARATE from wheelspeed is the key.

Go auto.

If you get the crawl ratio right, downhills are no problem. I have been down some big decents in crawler gear equipped auto's (cj!) and they crawl really well.

[badger]

have driven heal toe quiet competently in fast cars ............. it has a purpose there

but unless you are in tight high speed rally or gymkana type events i cant see it would have any benefits in most forms of 4wding.

i hate autos with a passion but for some sports such as drag racing and 4wd events id pick auto 9 out of 10 times

i am currently building a bundera ute chopped 80 series running gear n a v8 and yes it a MANUAL but its for fun not comp work otherwise itd be auto

[Aquarangie]

Autos for me.

Mainly, because I'm a lazy bastard and I can't be botherd changing geatrs. Manuals as far as I have experienced are best at slow downhill crawling, but I use my handbrake (LR's have a trans handbrake on the rear driveshaft if you wondering).

I find you learn to control the braking downhill to eliminate the vehicle from getting away from you, but were all diffrent and what one type suits you it may not suit another.

Trav

[eduardo]

Hi mates

Gday from Portugal

Cant you just aplicate a torque converter betwen Manual GearBox and Transfer box, or something like that!!!

That would give you a taste of the two worlds

I usualy drive a Unimog (for train-wagon pulling) suited like that and is much fun

GdLuck

[philta]

u guys are a funny bunch.

track/race tarmac = manual (it feels good when u heel toe and perfectly match your revs/speed)

4wd/off road=auto, i smelt something nice coming from the clutch when i drove my mates sierra. LOL

i rather be a "steerer" than changing my clutch.

[Dozoor]

Mmmm the further into this the more i really wonder ,

Forget the smelly clutch , if its a comp car you would surely be running big ratios, over 100 -1 , and yes heal toe does come into it - if you cant operate all four brakes (wheels ) and apply throttle at the same time you arn,t taking advantage of your manual, It is the same as holding your foot on the throttle to load up a converter in transision from brakeing to driving force. Yes hanbrakes achieve the same but often small drums attached to drive shafts that lose affect when they just had a gut full of water.

Having said that , without driving double footed in a auto and loading the converter, you achieve a gap in driving or braking force, an uncontrolled
moment of your driveline . The higher your converter stall speed the larger the gap.



But if your into serious hard comps You will not compete with an auto
for a few reasons , one that comes to mind is the ability for an auto to achieve a more variable speed in a low ratio mode ,eg moving extremely slowly and need to achieve momentum .
If you havnt driven an auto with 100-1 plus low range you wouldn,t understand .
eg the auto will swap three cogs within 20ft
without a break in driveline force , try that with a manual box .

JMO