Edis / megasquirt ecu - install

[F'n_Rover]

Thought i'd start a new thread about installing and setting up the edis system. So far I've only got some pics of a test jig I just made up but will post up more when I do it.



This photo was taken with the unit going around 2000rpm, sparks didn't show up - but were there.




The sensor mounting is not overly critical - I had it working from 1 - 15mm away from the crank wheel. This looks messy but is very basic to wire up. Haven't tested with the ecu connected yet. (next job)

[F'n_Rover]

I've got the system running in the landie . The ecu isn't hooked up yet as i'm still trying to work out the spark timing table. It runs without the ecu but is gutless, as its in the factory limp home mode - 10 degrees btdc.


Just have to get some new plug leads that are the right length.

[ausoops]

what brand of lathe is that? its about the size im looking/dreaming for.

[F'n_Rover]

what brand of lathe is that? its about the size im looking/dreaming for.

It's a Hafco (generic chinese). Handy thing to have, use it all the time. Ok for the small light stuff.... But IMO - look around for an old trade school lathe or go bigger, as big as you can afford and have the room and power for.

Simon

[F'n_Rover]

I've got it all working, the megasquirt gave me a few headaches, but nothing too hard. Tip - the megatune tuning software needs to be set to invert the spark output when using edis on the ms1.

this is the spark table I'm running ATM. needs more fine tuning, but runs well with these settings. (lpg) holden 186

Also - Had to change spark plugs to resistor ones - Used commodore v6 plugs. Too much noise with standard plugs

had to run a seperate power feed direct from the battery for the ecu (too much noise causing ecu resets)

[guzzla]

can someone please explain 2 me what an EDIS system is ?

[F'n_Rover]

can someone please explain 2 me what an EDIS system is ?

ford coilpack ignition (wasted spark)..... no more distributer

[F'n_Rover]

Tom - posting the pm hear for other people, Don't want to type it again.

Dude,

The module showed up - thanks mate nice work on the import.

Hey one thing where did you get your megasquirt and what version did you buy and finally how much was the unit.

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks again

Tom

Hi Tom.
No problems with the questions, glad someone else is interested in this stuff as well I got mine a few years ago from glens garage, (i've been slack ) Its version 1 on the v2.2 board, running the ms'n extra firmware. (download this firmware and load it in later) This version of firmware does heaps of extra stuff - in a lot of ways it is better(more features) than the version 2 megasquirt.

The trouble with using the v1 (extra code) on the v2.2 board is it involes a few custom board mods - though nothing too difficult. Finding the info on what to do is the hardest bit. The megasquirt site and forum is a real headfcuk to sort out.

All up, I paid around $200au for the full kit. This included the stimulator (test board - ie, dummy car), but just spent another $80 on the relay board. Get this - It'll be a nightmare to wire up otherwise.

V2.2 board will only run v1 firmware (classic-no spark) or the upgraded extra firmware (spark - edis). this is the cheapest option - around $200 us with the relay board (kit diy). dont buy the stim board, you can borrow mine for testing. You can buy the full kit built and tested for around an extra $100. A good option if you couldn't be stuffed doing the diy assembly.

If you want to buy the prebuilt v1 unit - ask for it to be built for running the extra code - no mods by you then, just plug and play.

Sorry I can't offer much info on the v2 megasquirt, but if $$ arn't tight it's a very good option especially on the v3 board. It would be around the same of better spec as the microtech ecu. Pricing for the latest built ms is around $600.

I can spoon feed you through a v1(2.2 board) build but the v2(v3 board) is an unknown to me.

Cheers
Simon

edit - here's a good link on it, http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?s=4f6 ... =6759&st=0

[davejb]

Well done, your going to shame me into getting my act together and do mine.
Dave

[RoldIT]

Although this info really (at this stage) has no use to me, I must say I find it very interesting.

It's budget and something different, keep up the good tech. (There hasn't been nearly enough around here recently )

[murcod]

Excellent work, thanks for taking the time to post up the progress and "how to's". You're doing something I've always wanted to do but never been game enough to!

[David_S]

Thanks Popeye. Interesting Post. Let us know how you get on.

I am about to start changing my P40 engined MQ to fuel injection with a megasquirt ecu. Will try to use my existing dizzy at first and eventually hope to install Ford EDIS (Electronic Distributorless Ignition System). Some time ago I replaced the old points with Pertronix ignition. I hope to be able to use the output from this system as an input to the Megasquirt to control the ignition advance and retard. Megasquirt II has a high current circuit which can directly control a coil. The old Hitachi dizzy will then function only as a crankshaft position indicator, rpm measurer and rotor arm, that is after I have immobilised the vacuum and centrifugal advance and retard mechanisms. Megasquirt II will work apparently with most types of ignition modules including Ford TFI, GM HEI etc.

Any comments on whether or not this proposal should work are welcome.

Prices for Megasquirt kits and assembled units seem to be pretty much the same wherever you get them. A megasquirt II PCB 3 unassembled kit costs $US250, a relay board kit $US65, and a stimulator board (used for testing the ECU before installation) $US40. I got (rather am awaiting) mine from SparkandFuel who so far have been very helpful. US Postal Service Airmail Parcel Post to NZ was $US43.

[David_S]

can someone please explain 2 me what an EDIS system is ?

As Popeye says it is a waste spark system, but if you are like I was a couple of weeks ago that may not mean much to you. In brief with EDIS you fit a 36-1 toothed wheel (as in the pics) to the front of the crankshaft. One of the teeth is missing i.e it has 36-1=35 teeth. A variable reluctor sensor fixed to the block detects the missing tooth and therefore the position of the crankshaft and sends the output to the electronic control unit (Meegasquirt) which computes rpm , dwell and ignition advance and sends a Spark Out Signal to the EDIS Module usually mounted on the firewall. This module controls the coil pack (3 coils for a 6 cylinder, 4 for 8). Each coil fires two cylinders simultaneously, one on the compression and one on the exhaust stroke. The spark on the exhaust cylinder is "wasted" i.e. it fires but no ignition occurs. Not much energy is lost with this spark as the gases are not under compression so there is little resistance. So with this system there is no need for a distributor.

The sensor is positioned so that the default firing position is 10º BTDC so you have a limp-home mode if your electronics fail.

At least I think that is how it works. Someone correct me please if I am wrong!

David

[F'n_Rover]

can someone please explain 2 me what an EDIS system is ?

As Popeye says it is a waste spark system, but if you are like I was a couple of weeks ago that may not mean much to you. In brief with EDIS you fit a 36-1 toothed wheel (as in the pics) to the front of the crankshaft. One of the teeth is missing i.e it has 36-1=35 teeth. A variable reluctor sensor fixed to the block detects the missing tooth and therefore the position of the crankshaft and sends the output to the electronic control unit (Meegasquirt) which computes rpm , dwell and ignition advance and sends a Spark Out Signal to the EDIS Module usually mounted on the firewall. This module controls the coil pack (3 coils for a 6 cylinder, 4 for 8). Each coil fires two cylinders simultaneously, one on the compression and one on the exhaust stroke. The spark on the exhaust cylinder is "wasted" i.e. it fires but no ignition occurs. Not much energy is lost with this spark as the gases are not under compression so there is little resistance. So with this system there is no need for a distributor.

The sensor is positioned so that the default firing position is 10º BTDC so you have a limp-home mode if your electronics fail.

At least I think that is how it works. Someone correct me please if I am wrong!

David

Yeah - that pretty much sums it up. The beauty of the edis system is that it controls everything to do with the spark side - and will run as a stand alone system. All it recieves from the main ecu is the timing advance curve.

BTW - the 10 degree limp home setting sucks. I was running around on this for a few days before i had the ecu sorted. LPG does not like 10degrees . I exploded a muffler, was like a bomb going off - felt like the car jumped a couple of feet in the air.


Now that I have a semi decent timing curve, I have not had a single backfire. With the dizzi (standard curve) backfiring on gas was a very, very common thing.


RE - tuning the spark curve :
I am not having much luck doing it by feel. The cruising and idle settings are close, and have made a big difference in economy and smoothness - but at full throttle i am still down a fair bit on power compared to the dizzi.


Cruising at 80 - 100kph now only requires a slight touch of throttle, whereas before it required a fair bit. This is IMO the best thing about these sort of setups - having the vacuum advance setting perfectly matched to the fuel you are running.

The full throttle power should be little difference to what could be achieved with a well setup dizzi, but a dizzy could never match an ecu's part throttle/low end performance.

The mtr in the truck is soon to be swapped for a new donk - so i am using it as a bit of a test mule / guinea pig. Its good not having to worry about stuffing it up with wrong spark timing. When the new mtr is in - it's straight off to a dyno shop. No way would i trust my done by feel timing on a $$ new mtr.

[David_S]

Popeye, have you considered fitting a wideband oxygen sensor and controller which will read your air fuel ratio directly and help with your tuning? I think there is a Megasquirt kit for the controller. Otherwise unfortunately they are not particularly cheap - $US199 from SparkandFuel and others for a package comprising Bosch sensor, cable, controller, bung and plug, laptop software etc. Output can go direct to the Megasquirt ECU or to a PC via a serial connection. Works with all fuels including LPG

I am getting one to go with my conversion to fuel injection but intend using it first to tune my carb setup before the conversion. Would be useful for the dyno test too I should think. I might even install a couple of bungs in the exhaust pipes of my sons' two Honda 125 twin motorbikes which have dual carbs so that we can check the mixture throughout the throttle range. A bit hard to do it by ear with dual carbs.

David