riddle me this-Loosing water-

Post by **pootrol** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:57 pm

been getting slowly worse and wondered if it might be a head prob.after a day a driving now it sucks the over flow radiator bottle dry + some of the radiator water.....missing.no leaks,no unusual pressure in cooling system,no water in oil.it is nearly a litre of water after a hard day of 4 wheeling its worse of course when when stop start the engine........any suggestions.........

Post by **giantracing** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:08 pm

crack in the head. what engine

Post by **pootrol** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:46 am

sorry 4.2 petrol ................

Post by **G_loomis** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:57 am

I was faced with the same problem with my HJ60 landcruiser...I started thinking worse case scenario...but it turned out to be the bottom radiator hose wasnt sealing 100%.

So my advise would be to check and double check everything before you take dramatic steps.

Take the radiator cap off at idle and check for bubbles...this is a sign on cracked head gasket if there are bubbles.

Post by **stevepet** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:55 pm

Had the same problem recently. Turned out to be a hose that would only leak while engine was running as soon as motor stopped leak stopped and as was spraying onto motor almost dried instantly so couldnt tell by inspection for water leaks. After saying that TB42 motor is renowned for cracking heads. Take oil filler cap off and pray there is no whit sludge on inside of cap. If still cant be traced take to a radiator place and have a pressure test done.

Keep fingers crossed big bucks for new or reco head. I have done two now running Allheads reco unit has extra cooling ports drilled in head. Seems to work OK looks messy and you always have to keep an eye on hoses for leaks.

Good luck

Steve

Post by **GQ Bear** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:58 pm

check for 1)milky oil,2) foamy water,3) bubbles in water and 4) excessive exhaust steam. 1) & 2) = cracked head. 3) & 4) = blown head gasket (hopefully)

Like Greg said, check all hoses for tight clamps and no little splits/cracks. Replace hose clamps if you haven't already as the factory nissan ones are a pos.

has it lost heaps of power too?

Mine had same symptoms and massive power loss as well as 3) & 4) mentioned above => Head gasket blown at no.6

, no cracks

I was lucky as i cooked the shite out of it a dozen or so times too! (not advisable)

Post by **pootrol** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:21 pm

thanks for the info........been keeping an eye on oil and ran motor with out rad cap but nothing strange.its pretty much just water now as i had to top so many times now.exhaust is a straight through 2.5" so i thought it normal to blow a bit of moisture when cold,which it does but goes away.some one did say today like some one here that it could be evaporating on to motor ...........ill do some more checking tomorrow.

Post by **Madmac** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:27 pm

this is an interseting read, mine has a similar problem, i put some chemiweld in it and it has stopped losing water, but i suspect it is letting exhaust gases into the water jacket, as it bubbles through the radiator. im toying with the idea of removing the head myself. if its cracked will i clearly see the crack once its off? or does it need to Xrayed or similar? if its just the gasket will i be able to see where the gasket is buggered?

Post by **GQ Bear** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:59 pm

hi-luxmadness wrote:this is an interseting read, mine has a similar problem, i put some chemiweld in it and it has stopped losing water, but i suspect it is letting exhaust gases into the water jacket, as it bubbles through the radiator. im toying with the idea of removing the head myself. if its cracked will i clearly see the crack once its off? or does it need to Xrayed or similar? if its just the gasket will i be able to see where the gasket is buggered?

chemi-weld could temporarily plug a small leak in radiator or hose, etc. aswell as head crack/gasket.

But bubbling in the radiator water suggests blown head gasket to me. (Can just be smallish infrequent single bubble every 10 secs or so). This suggests, like you say exhaust gases getting into water. A chemical test can be done too to detect traces of carbon monoxide in water.

A crack is usually quite obvious. Blown head gasket can be a bit harder to detect. Look carefully at both sides of gasket, surface of head and surface of block for tell-tale signs. rust deposits, pitting, etc. Your valves and surrounding surfaces should have deposits of carbon on them. If they are excessively clean ask yourself why. Have you been washing them with hot water?

If you remove the head you'll need to get it surfaced, so you'd be mad not to get it crack tested at the same time

oh, BTW get radiator flushed and flush your engine to get rid of that chemi-weld crap you tipped in

Post by **Darren Bell** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:18 pm

Hey pootrol dont want to tell you this

but the Nissan 4.2 petrol are renowned for doing the head gasket at the rear of the head right behind no six piston. There is two water gallerys there and there very close to the fireing ring on the gasket, if you are only useing the water you say you are pull the head off and have it cracked tested before you refit it but make sure you get it faced or you will be doing it again.
When you re fit the head replace the water pump and make sure you fit a pump with a cast iron impellor, the steal ones are crap and will cavetat and cause problems.
Most repairers wont warranty your head work unless you replace the water pump. When you refill with coolant remove the small hose at the top of the top radiator hose near the engine and fill it until water flows out the fitting and then put it back on.
When you first run the engine leave the radiator cap of until the engine is warm and continue to top up the coolant until it is full, these engins are dog for air locks and will give you greaf.
Cheers Darren
P.S. when these engins start to use water there normaly all the same problem, i have done about 30 of them over my time and all so far have been the same problem.

Post by **Madmac** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:10 pm

whats inolved with getting a head "faced", do you have to remove all the valves and springs before taking it in? i definately dont want to the job twice

Post by **GQ Bear** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:47 pm

hi-luxmadness wrote:whats inolved with getting a head "faced", do you have to remove all the valves and springs before taking it in? i definately dont want to the job twice

nah, just remove head and seperate manifold, then take it in as is. Many head specialists will prefer if you dont clean it either so they inspect it as is.

You've just gotta remove rockers and push rods in order to remove head. Don't touch anything else!

You'll need to re-set valve clearances at 0.32mm when you put it back together. Run it and then re-adjust clearances if out.

Mine's in the shop at the moment. Getting heavier springs and new valve guides put in while its off, and surfaced/faced. I've been told to use a graphite gasket which he got for me at cost.

some ppl suggest to have moulding plugs removed and holes welded for extra strength. Mine's been cooked that hot that many times if it was ever gunna crack it would have.

Post by **jkv6** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:47 pm

mate had same prob with falcon turned out to be welsh plug gets hot gets bigger seals the hole hot gets cold gets smaller makes hole thats why water loss when cold and over night in the falcon anyway check side of the motor for stains

Post by **pootrol** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:43 pm

all interesting.had a xf that blew the head gasket out behind no6 once before.had the gq it idling for 2hrs straight today infront of garage,noted overflow level.every so often checked over/under for water drips /none on driveway.turned it off then checked again nothing.after leaving for about 5hrs restarted but noticed overflow level down a bit.swithed off engine and the radiator returned the water to the over flow.on each start up no moisture blowing out exhaust.i have an after market crap over flow thats been extended back to firewall.i guess im looking for any thing other than removing the head but for no pressure in radiator had me a bit stuck........ill check for stains on block which will be hard due to mud and dust.......thanks fellas

Post by **Dean2** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:24 pm

check that the radiator cap is holding the correct pressure

Post by **Patchy** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:46 pm

another one to check would be your heater core. and depending on how your vehicles a/c, heater system is set up it could be leaking and just be loosing the water out the evap drian plug for the a/c system.
just a thought.

Post by **David_S** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:33 pm

For checking for leaks in hoses, radiator cores, welch plugs etc try pressurising the system. A radiator specialist can do this for you or do, what I did when trying to find out the cause of a small water loss, which was to connect my tyre inflator compressor to the rubber hose connecting the filler cap to the reservoir. As a result water spewed out of a pin hole in one of the radiator hoses which was completely undetectable before.

Post by **pearson** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:11 pm

chemi weld is your answer just put it in with the radiator and thats it

Post by **shakes** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:04 pm

Using chemi weld and the like is like using bandaids instead of getting stitches... it'll work for a little while, but will come back to scar you later.

Simon

Post by **pootrol** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:12 pm

thanks fellas ill do the pressure test,failing that ill disconnect the heater core for a bit.the rad cap is new but i would see water coming out some where if pressure wasnt right wouldnt i.?............rather look for some thing minor than discover its not the head.odds are with my luck it would be...........

Post by **blkmav** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:18 pm

You can spend all the time farting around trying to diagnose it or just go get the head done.

My example, new thermostat, pressure tested, radiator fixed, head ripped off and blown gasket.

Fixed now and it runs great except for the main seal starting to leak oil but I needed a new clutch anyway.

Post by **Patchy** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:14 pm

if you do your head gasket you will have to do all that sh#t anyway.
you would be more pissed if you sent all that money on doing your head only to find that its a small bypass hose thats worth $5 causing the problems.
i sugest look at the simple things first then work up to the bigger jobs, even if you spend the $80 or so dollas to pay for proper diagnoses. that way they can run pressure test (for external leaks) or a tee-kay test to see if its infact intenal (either cracked head or head gasket)

Post by **Patchy** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:22 pm

pootrol wrote:thanks fellas ill do the pressure test,failing that ill disconnect the heater core for a bit.the rad cap is new but i would see water coming out some where if pressure wasnt right wouldnt i.?............rather look for some thing minor than discover its not the head.odds are with my luck it would be...........

yeah you will see a leak, but its advised that you leave the pressure at 15psi in the system for an extended period of time. if its a slow leak it may take its time to show 30-45mins is a reasonable amount of time to leave a system under pressure, all leaks should be showing after this time.

sorry if you already know this but seen many people pressure test cooling systems for 5 or so minutes, see nothing and drive a car out only to have it come back the following week with a slow leak

Post by **pootrol** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:43 pm

well the results are in it looks like.left cap off again let idle and have seen a bit of white froth accuring now with the occasional bubble blowing out of the neck.guess now it comes down to pulling it apart or chem welding.

Post by **stevelb1** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:42 pm

I just had the same problem with my GQ 4.2 petrol, loosing 2-3 lts of water over a 4 day period, dragged the old girl to the mechanic and it was the water pump, new pump installed and it running like a dream.

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