XRCC Rules for 2003

[Cheezy4x4]

Dave, I just got home from the XRCC and would like to commend Peter, Sam and all the people that made it happen. This event was one of the best events that I have participated in, was fair and everyone jumped in to help each other, and I wouldnt hesitate to participate in any event these people orgonise in the future. Well Done Boys.

As for entry to the next rounds, put me down for all of them.

Could you please post all the specs for the outlaw class vehicles, as of tomorrow I will be starting a full rebuild of my new vehicle, to be ready by the XRCC first round.

Also people have told me that you can move heaven and earth, so can you please see what you can do about moving QLD closer to Victoria.

[Strange Rover]

The OUTLAW Class will be run at all XRCC Events & the modified class will have more to work with. I feel that tyre size in this class is more important then anything else max 36.5 x 13.5???????????, what are you feelings on this.

For the modified class the max tyre size is probably the best control method. I would go for 37in to include the Goodyear MTR 37x12.5 and possibly the BFG crawler and the procomp (if they do ever make one). This sort of tyre could work on a lot of rigs and would have to be a good thing in terms of getting potential sponsors for the sport.

Sam

[bj on roids]

Dave, I just got home from the XRCC and would like to commend Peter, Sam and all the people that made it happen. This event was one of the best events that I have participated in, was fair and everyone jumped in to help each other, and I wouldnt hesitate to participate in any event these people orgonise in the future. Well Done Boys.

As for entry to the next rounds, put me down for all of them.

Could you please post all the specs for the outlaw class vehicles, as of tomorrow I will be starting a full rebuild of my new vehicle, to be ready by the XRCC first round.

Also people have told me that you can move heaven and earth, so can you please see what you can do about moving QLD closer to Victoria.

ROFL: cheezy, im sure if there was an award for furthest travelled you'd win it, thanks for the lend of your snatch strap!! cheezy even let a spectator have a drink from his esky, due to camp being so far from the events, what a champion!!

[XTREME MMM]

You are all correct PK & crew did a great job, sorry for my absence.(That is why it went so well????????????)
Tyre size is going to be the important thing in the modified class regardless of what is done to the vehicle. Glen has suggestered 37" I would suggest that it would be a measured size not what is marked on the tyre. This is the sort of feed back I want. By taking on board all the comments, I can come up with a set of rules to make the XRCC stand out from the crowd. I am a new boy on the block so am willing to listen to all. After all it is the competitors that win the trophies not MMM.
Keep the feedback coming. Talk soon.

PS By the way some people may think I am good but I know I am!!!!!!!!!!
Could be an XRCC Round in NSW 2003 but will be 2 in 2004.

Regards MMM

[POS]

Dave,

The weekend was awesome had a great time and look forward to the next round.

Here are some suggestions that may help (just my opinion)

1 Tyres size for the modified class should be 37 inch as marked on the side wall.

Reason being if you measure the height you will have guys airing down to make the lower class.

2 more spectator access points (i know thats difficult)

3 Comentry over a PA would be cool and really spark the crowds up.

4 You need more than one person scoring, and at the end of the round they check the scores off to each others.

5 Second row of bunting to keep the crowd back a safe distance.


These are some ideas i thought would help.

I am at NO WAY SUGGESTING that pete didn't run an awesome event just
trying to help out.

ALSO IF SOMEONE DOES WANT TO SUGGEST AN IDEA KEEP IT CONSTRUCTIVE.

Thanks Dave and Thanks once again Pete

[v8zuki]

xrcc what can i say AWWWWWSSSOOOOMMMME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CANT WAIT FOR NEXT ROUND i can feel the welder coming on !!pete u did a fantstic job. all i think we need is 2 or 3 scoring marshals so there is no confusion about scores. but of course that takes more volunteers, anyway next year i will be there at every event, so bring it on ,come on every body get your rigs ready . OUTLAW CLASS RULES

[big red]

from a spectators point of view the access around the course was ok with heaps of shade.
BUT... you need a big board or pamphlets showing where the stages are being held and what time they start.
maybe have a short first stage starting at 8am so everyone can finish before lunch and then start the second stage at 1pm then it doesn't matter what time it finishes.
dont bother with a saturday night stage as everyone is too buggered from the big day [also gives the competitors time for repairs and rest]
have the same huge mean stage on sunday at 9am as it doesn't matter so much if the competitors break.
Keep all spectators out while a car is competing [i was also guilty ] but let them walk across the course to try a different vantage point between cars.
maybe start and finish the cars with a horn blast so we know when they are coming

[big red]

continued:
have a list of competitors with vehicle details,class etc at the office as well.
I really enjoyed the weekend but needed some info.
I can tell you one thing, i'll be at the next one...it was awesome

[OVERKILL ENG]

One thing you have to consider is that as the comp grows which it will is that If you run one stage at a time it only takes one major failure and that holds the whole day up and the spectators get boared and hostile(day one Tuff Truck last year).Also have you thought about a entry limit.If the interest in the comp converts to entrantsI think you could have one big comp.
Just my 2 bobs worth.
SAM

[Strange Rover]

I think that a good idea would be to have a ball that sits on top of the cone so that if the ball is knocked off the gate has been missed and if its still there then the gate has been cleared. This would have to make it alot easier to score and its more obvious for the competators and spectators if a gate has been hit. The ball could be tied to the cone externally with a cable so that is doesent roll away when its hit.

I think that the rules shold be made as absolutely simple as possible without exceptions or special instances. The US guys have got their rules down to about half a dozen or less and i think its a great way to go. I dont think that there needs to be "bonus obstacles" or anything special that complicates things. Just set the gates and then drive them any way you can, forwards, backwards, sideways or on your roof. I dont think it should matter.

The biggest challenge to this type of event is the course layout. Creat an awsome track and you got an awesome event. Its that simple. The beauty of the cone system is that if you include an absolutely killer abstacle that only the top rigs can complete you dont stuff the comp for the less capable rigs cause they will just not complete the gate and move on to the next obstacle.

DAMN its going to be a big year. XRCC is gonna spank some arse.

Sam

[XTREME MMM]

What has been created here devil only knows. It is great to have some great feedback. Just on a few things:-
1:- Pete again did a great job
2:- With tyre size it will have to be measured this will stop any special marked tyres being used ( it has happened before ) the tyres will be measured on the ground at a set pressure ( to be set ) possible 24psi.
3:- PA system will be a must during the day.
4:- Extra bunting should not be a problem.
5:- Scoring will be carried out by the Stage Manager & his assistant.
6:- The idea of the ball in the cone sounds very interesting, will follow up.
7:- I go along with the idea of no Saturday night Stages, this gives us time to have a sit around & a cup of tea or two talking about all the - "if this had happened I would have come?????????????"
8:- If Round 1 has a large entry the stages will all run together this will allow for an earlier day. More time for a cup of tea. Remember you can go on the bag the next morning. Zero Limit!!!!!!!!!!!!
9:- Getting late. Talk later

Regards MMM

[POS]

The ball idea is awesome that would be the best move as it would eliminate any confussion for the driver as well as the spectators.

Gee your a smart cookie Sam

[Pal]

2:- With tyre size it will have to be measured this will stop any special marked tyres being used ( it has happened before ) the tyres will be measured on the ground at a set pressure ( to be set ) possible 24psi
.

.Measure the tyres horizontally, not vertically!
36.5 is plenty big enough for Modified class.
.

[tjpete]

One thing you have to consider is that as the comp grows which it will is that If you run one stage at a time it only takes one major failure and that holds the whole day up and the spectators get boared and hostile(day one Tuff Truck last year).Also have you thought about a entry limit.If the interest in the comp converts to entrantsI think you could have one big comp.
Just my 2 bobs worth.
SAM

Sam,

I might have misunderstood you, so forgive me if I have. Are you suggesting just 1 MEGA round, like TTC?

I think that what has fired so many teams and spectators is the series concept. People can build a machine and run it the whole year over several rounds and that is what makes this more attractive.

Perhaps a series final at the end of the season where teams from each state qualify for the final round?

Hope I have not misunderstood you bloke, but hey, whatever, 03 is going to be big!

[bj on roids]

i like the idea of a series from each state

THEN a season finale (different location each year) in which the most consistenet teams from each state say top 3 go head to head in a 9 car challenge or something, the winner could win cool prizes as well as a TTC entry or similar? maybe?

[JK]

Nah, all 9 should win an auto TTC entry. To get that far they will have had to prove they were worthy. At least we will have 9 of the most awesome outlaw rock buggys in the country at TTC... bring it awwwn.

[RUFF]

Sam,

I might have misunderstood you, so forgive me if I have. Are you suggesting just 1 MEGA round, like TTC?

I think that what has fired so many teams and spectators is the series concept. People can build a machine and run it the whole year over several rounds and that is what makes this more attractive.

Perhaps a series final at the end of the season where teams from each state qualify for the final round?

Hope I have not misunderstood you bloke, but hey, whatever, 03 is going to be big!

Pete

I think what Sam is trying to say is that instead of all nine of us on the weekend completing one stage at a time maybe we should send say 5 to one stage then 4 to another which would obviously take more officials but would make the competition flow a lot better because if there is a breakage on a course you dont have 9 vehicals waiting to compete.
Which is how TTC was run this year.The spectators have something to watch when a recovery happens by moving to the next stage instead of getting board and leaving.

Remember it is the spectators that make this sport what it is.

[POS]

Guys,

WHAT THE!!!!!!!!!

I am not going to compete in a series of AWESOME tracks just to qualify for TOUGH TRUCK.

WHY, Tough Truck aint so tough really compared to XRCC.

Unless TTC organisors have some serious tracks hidden away than why should that be the pinicle of the year.

What we've got at the moment is fine.

1. Practice Round

2. Round 1 (first in best dressed, who says you need to limit cars to 30, i doubt if you left it open we would be lucky to get 40 "SERIOUS RIGS" at the moment)

3. Round 2 ( if you had 30 rigs in round one the top 25 are auto selected for round two, this allows any one with a new rig to enter and does not disadvantage someone who drove well in the first round.)

4. Round 3 (Same as round 2)

5. Round 4 ( The big one "KING OF THE ROCKS" top ten after the first three rounds go FULL ON to win the title.)

Just my opinion.

After the weekend i dont even know if i will enter TTC (not if every time someone gets stuck they pull the winch)

[RUFF]

But i only pulled the winch once

[JK]

Fair comments POS.

My point was in the same vein as yours in that XRCC is a superior comp to TTC, and that any truck that was capable of competing in XRCC would be more than capable enough to enter and be competitive in TTC.

So all entrants in the final round of XRCC could be automatically entered in TTC, and they could choose to do so at their discretion. Not that XRCC is a qualifying for TTC, rather an automatic entry due to proven ability.

XRCC is certainly going to shake-up the comp scene. It is going to be a formative year for 4b competition.

[RUFF]

I dont think in this type of event tyre sizes in any class should be limited.

Why?

Because if you think in a production modified rig you can get bigger than 36.5 under it without modifying your suspension mounting points or links or lifting higher than is allowed then go for it cause it is not going to perform.
I think prod mod class needs to be just that.Vehicles that have been modified by bolt on accessories only(such as ARB/TJM and the sort) not 5link conversions or dropped hangers and modified wheelbases.
Putting a 36.5 limit on modified is putting Cruisers and patrols at a disadvatage as a zook with 36.5s will have way more ground clearance than the cruiser/patrol(and some body cutting and springs will accomidate 36.5s on a zook).

Remember we are driving this stuff not winching.

I also beleive there needs to be at least 3 indipendant scorers/judges and at the end of a stage they add there total scores for a competitor and average it out.There is no confusion here there has to be someone out of the 3 always watching the competitor.This event moves to fast and Gates get out of view with only one scorer/judge.

Also a roll over in a stage should not automaticaly be a DNF if you can get the rig going again and it is sound and has been inspected and you have time remaining you should be able to continue.

The reversing through a gat fiasco should not have even been discused. As stated in the breafing this was going to be a technical event that would take a lot of thought and if reversing through the gate meant winning then in my opinion(and i know in all the competitors i spoke to in their opinions as well) it was a well thought out move.In one comp in the US the winning team has rolled through the last gate on there roof to take the win.

The ball idea in the hat i beleive to be the best idea then there is no confusion as to wether the hat was hit.

Last thing. The time limit for stages needs to be increased as on the sunday there is no way any rig could possibly have compleated the entire course within the allocated 10min(i would put money on this).Rigs were having trouble on the Sat as well and i know it wont take much for a spotter or an official to be run over or fall over and get injured when we are going as hard as we can to get the course finished in the allocated time.I know i nearly ran my spotter over and i also watched Rob Davies nearly run over his spotter because we were both pushed for time and trying to finish without a TIME OUT.


Ps; Pete you done a fantastic job and i couldnt have hoped for a better result and this is not critisising(sp) you in any way but as we all know this is all a learning experiance for us.

[POS]

Dirt pig, i see where your coming from, good call.

I also agree that one or two rounds should be run down south, but i dont know if they have anything as tough

[Cheezy4x4]

I agree with the being able to finish in reverse, but I dont with the finish on your roof ect, as this is a technical event, not who can smash bash or roll there POS with the best result, and I spose I am guilty of it as on the last track I took out my door to get the last 2 gates in time, not proud of it, but did it.

I also agree with the tyre size, a zook would have an advantage with 36.5 tyres over say a GQ, maybe a % larger than stock may be the go.

I think the 10 min time limit was OK as it made you think of what gates to take and what to miss if you have to.

I think everyone could drive the tracks at XRCC given enough time, but thats not what its about is it.

I also agree that Pete did a fantastic job, Its harder than it looks.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[RUFF]

Sorry Cheezy i wasnt saying i would roll on my roof on purpose or anyone should but this actually happened by accident in an american comp and the rig just happened to roll through the last gate and clear it and was awarded the points.It had nothing to do with strategy.

[POS]

Yeah i didn't think of the time limits to much as i dont even know if we were getting pinned for dnf or not.

I suppose if they want us to CRAWL not drive and bash our way through than the time limits would need to be extended slightly.

I think the time limit for Stage 1 and 2 were fine but to attempt the hourseshoe on three and complete the stage you would be going pretty hard

[Cheezy4x4]

True

[bj on roids]

very good points tony, but i was trying to hit my spotter cause i was unhappy with him, not because of the time limit!!

cheezy for MODIFIED I think that a % over stock is the best option, because cruisers and GQs on 36s vs a zook on 36s, is BS, a zook on 36s is equivalent to a gq or cruiser on 44s!! so this needs to be looked at!! i dont think "tyre limit" but limiting it to 4" over stock tyres or similar might be the go?

[XTREME MMM]

This is the sort of feed back I want. I tend to crawl before I take great leaps & bounds, so lets not jump to far ahead just yet. Lets get Round 1 under my belt & then it might be time to take giant steps.
XRCC at no time can be compared to TTC.(YET) TTC at the moment is the event to aim for (for now) Yes I do believe that XRCC winners should get auto entry to TTC.

I have already deceided that XRCC would move South as well it may even happen in 2003 but it will be there in 2004.

I have got no problem with a vehicle reversing into the finish garage after all this is a test of skill. If you roll & can recovery your vehicle without any outside help go for it. If assistance is given by anyone you will DNF. The times will be set to give you ample time to complete the course. One of the things I am toying with is if you go around a gate you will lose 50 pts. if you winch it you loose 30pts because the idea is to drive it & complete the set course, the crowd does not want to see a car drive around all the gates & then possibly win the event.

Tyre size, That is quite true about a spook with 36 compared with a GQ with 36. POINT WELL & TRUELY TAKEN. If say we allowed a " upto 4" " To stay in the modified class & any larger goes into "OUTLAW", how do you think that will work??????????? If you think this would be ok I would put out a size list for all vehicles.

Keep the comments coming.

MMM

[moose]

just to let you know !!
A zook with 33's , has 3/4' more clearance than GQ with Q78s !!!!!!
under the centre of the diff pumpkin !!!

[OVERKILL ENG]

Pete you did misunderstand me what I was refering to was that the first year of Tuff Truck they ran one stage on day one and there were heaps of breakages.It took something like 11 hours to get 30 cars through and the crowd got really bored and quite hostile.I was just suggesting that as the event gets bigger it may be worth looking at running more than one stage at a time.
The fact that Xrcc is a series is ths best move anyone in the sport has made.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.