I realise there are a lot of people putting great deals of time into discussions, etc. with native land owners, councils, etc. But it appears to me that we are loosing all of our places to play. True they may not be ours to beguine with, but if councils will spend a couple of grand building a skate park for the locals, and other responses to minority groups why can't we have access to already constructed trails?!
The public liability, fire hazard spiel may be brought up, but the facts remain that 4wding disturbs little more than a couple of animals either side of the track and it requires $0 funds for maintenance. From those in the pedestrian council (what a joke!) to others who are in the insurance industry, greenies... the list goes on, we are one of the few minorities that takes all of the bad publicity these groups throw at us and cop it sweet.
Are people not interested in that there is almost nowhere to legally go in Sydney for a drive? If I were a modification place like Overkill or Macquarie (sorry Sam & Duncan... you guys were the first to come to mind) I would think it would be in the best interests of my business to make sure that places were still open. I realise it's through no choice of your own, but if the current trend of track closures continue the most aggressive tyres you guys will be selling soon will be H/T's.
Again there are plenty of responsible offroaders that do the right thing... but where is this getting us?
Shannon
Maybe this seems like a cry... but am I the only person thinking like this?
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...game over!?
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
Re: ...game over!?
ITs not just sydney Qld is getting the same, and Melbourne will soon, they are starting with the Otways. But thats a long way off yet, they couldnt close the high country... but they could make it tar and sealed.
The thing is track maintance does cost $$. Simple fact. Look at how tracks end up after 1 weekend of rain and a pack of pricks that dont give a f uck... Ruts and shit everywhere, and these are for emergency vehicles to use as well.. I can tell you from personal experience in a Cat 1 Firetruck blasting down a track to save houses back of Menai, or Engadine etc....
You do your best to get there fast as possible, but if theres 12inch ruts all down the track, it phucks you up. People scream, they have investigations and stuff as to why the house burn down and people died. It comes back to the parks dept then and track maintance.
Its basically an easy way out for them. Close tracks costs them ZERO. Well costs them phuck all compared to the pounding some tracks cop in a year
I can hear what you are sayin, I rode bikes for 20 yrs, and same story for legally riding chook chasers, theres not that many GOOD places to ride. If your unregistered, forget it!...
I see the only way to go is to buy land and open up a Landcruiser Mountain Park type place. Or join a club that has land.
The thing is track maintance does cost $$. Simple fact. Look at how tracks end up after 1 weekend of rain and a pack of pricks that dont give a f uck... Ruts and shit everywhere, and these are for emergency vehicles to use as well.. I can tell you from personal experience in a Cat 1 Firetruck blasting down a track to save houses back of Menai, or Engadine etc....
You do your best to get there fast as possible, but if theres 12inch ruts all down the track, it phucks you up. People scream, they have investigations and stuff as to why the house burn down and people died. It comes back to the parks dept then and track maintance.
Its basically an easy way out for them. Close tracks costs them ZERO. Well costs them phuck all compared to the pounding some tracks cop in a year
I can hear what you are sayin, I rode bikes for 20 yrs, and same story for legally riding chook chasers, theres not that many GOOD places to ride. If your unregistered, forget it!...
I see the only way to go is to buy land and open up a Landcruiser Mountain Park type place. Or join a club that has land.
True bogged,
but i see little use in blocking off places in the middle of no where... what are the trucks driving out to save? When the bushfires were in our street dec last year and took out the house opposit us the BFB guys didn't even use the tracks prepared by themselves when everyone built, all they were intrested in was staying close to the sealed roads so they themselves could get the hell out of there....
I'm not intrested in opening Lane Cove N.P., but I can not see any use in blocking off roads like wheelbarrow and freds
but i see little use in blocking off places in the middle of no where... what are the trucks driving out to save? When the bushfires were in our street dec last year and took out the house opposit us the BFB guys didn't even use the tracks prepared by themselves when everyone built, all they were intrested in was staying close to the sealed roads so they themselves could get the hell out of there....
I'm not intrested in opening Lane Cove N.P., but I can not see any use in blocking off roads like wheelbarrow and freds
MQ080 wrote:True bogged,
but i see little use in blocking off places in the middle of no where... what are the trucks driving out to save? When the bushfires were in our street dec last year and took out the house opposit us the BFB guys didn't even use the tracks prepared by themselves when everyone built, all they were intrested in was staying close to the sealed roads so they themselves could get the hell out of there....
I'm not intrested in opening Lane Cove N.P., but I can not see any use in blocking off roads like wheelbarrow and freds
Agree.
Sometimes its too dangerous to put yourself between the house and fire, theres situations where the fire is just too intense (thanks greenies for not allowing burning off).
There has to be some simple answer, give the 4wd community 2000acres of land somewhere to do with what they like!!!!
God of Magnificant Ideas!
Nah ya not the only one worried by our governments actions be they local or federal, Here in Vic we have been told that the Otways is closed , some Officals say its quote" a seasonal closure only" whilst others are positive its permanant, at this stage I think its a wait n see deal.
I hear others saying " Our Assocations/clubs should be dealing with the issue" but the reality is that just doesnt happen with any great effect. Placing extra workload onto unwilling executive members of a local club wont work, every club I have ever been associated with has what I call the "silly six", 6 people that do EVERYTHING from organise meetings, social days/nights,club runs, fund raisers, and the day to day running of the club, like they could handle or want the extra responsibility. Even this very forum has a silly 6, they are the true dedicated ones and there just aint enough of em.
Here's an example.... this is a totally madeup club for the example.... the president of the "otways mud luvas 4X4 suziki mightyboy racing club inc" Mr J.Smith goes n see's John Howard to sook up about lost 4X4 driving areas...like Howard cares....Mr J.Smith represents say 50 members... like that will hurt at the next election !!!! The problem is we dont have the numbers to hurt the pollies, this forum has 1725 members as I type this, thats a hell of a lot more push than the Mr J.Smiths across Australia could ever get , yet we cant expect the top members of this forum to drop everything to take on a whole new task, I'm sure they have a life !!!!
Somehow we need to join ALL the clubs and assocations under one banner yet allow them to continue to act as the indivual identies that they are. This is how in American the National Rifle Assocation survives...sheer numbers, when the president of the National Rifle Association walks into the whitehouse and tells the countrys president he WONT do this to gun owners ...the president listens cause the NRA represents millions of votes across the USA. Here in Australia however there are a dozen different assocations that wont/cant get on with each other, thats why the firearms are gone, if they ever get together, it would be a much different story.
We need one Australia wide assocation that encompasses all clubs/groups and their differing ideas as to the various aspects of our sport, from the family that just wants to cruise a few forest tracks to the full blown rig owners that want the ultimate difficult offroad experiance/competition, then if that ever happens the president of that association could walk into parlament house and say "I represent 1,000,000 4x4 owners and you are gunna open up all tracks now! cause if ya dont we aint gunna vote for ya party at the next election ", then maybe you got a chance.
foot note: I was asked the other day "what club are you a member of?" my response was simple..... Outer Limits 4x4...... then came the knockout ..."we know that, we see the posts you put in and people are talking about some of the things you say in them, but you must be in some other club though ?".....nup just this one. So I now know that several locals are watching, one or two have registered that I know of (they havent posted a single thing yet ) and many more are watching and waiting. Well people, its up to you to help your selves, get off ya ass, put ya hand up to do something and help or stop acting like sooky la la's.
you'll get out of it what you put in !
I hear others saying " Our Assocations/clubs should be dealing with the issue" but the reality is that just doesnt happen with any great effect. Placing extra workload onto unwilling executive members of a local club wont work, every club I have ever been associated with has what I call the "silly six", 6 people that do EVERYTHING from organise meetings, social days/nights,club runs, fund raisers, and the day to day running of the club, like they could handle or want the extra responsibility. Even this very forum has a silly 6, they are the true dedicated ones and there just aint enough of em.
Here's an example.... this is a totally madeup club for the example.... the president of the "otways mud luvas 4X4 suziki mightyboy racing club inc" Mr J.Smith goes n see's John Howard to sook up about lost 4X4 driving areas...like Howard cares....Mr J.Smith represents say 50 members... like that will hurt at the next election !!!! The problem is we dont have the numbers to hurt the pollies, this forum has 1725 members as I type this, thats a hell of a lot more push than the Mr J.Smiths across Australia could ever get , yet we cant expect the top members of this forum to drop everything to take on a whole new task, I'm sure they have a life !!!!
Somehow we need to join ALL the clubs and assocations under one banner yet allow them to continue to act as the indivual identies that they are. This is how in American the National Rifle Assocation survives...sheer numbers, when the president of the National Rifle Association walks into the whitehouse and tells the countrys president he WONT do this to gun owners ...the president listens cause the NRA represents millions of votes across the USA. Here in Australia however there are a dozen different assocations that wont/cant get on with each other, thats why the firearms are gone, if they ever get together, it would be a much different story.
We need one Australia wide assocation that encompasses all clubs/groups and their differing ideas as to the various aspects of our sport, from the family that just wants to cruise a few forest tracks to the full blown rig owners that want the ultimate difficult offroad experiance/competition, then if that ever happens the president of that association could walk into parlament house and say "I represent 1,000,000 4x4 owners and you are gunna open up all tracks now! cause if ya dont we aint gunna vote for ya party at the next election ", then maybe you got a chance.
foot note: I was asked the other day "what club are you a member of?" my response was simple..... Outer Limits 4x4...... then came the knockout ..."we know that, we see the posts you put in and people are talking about some of the things you say in them, but you must be in some other club though ?".....nup just this one. So I now know that several locals are watching, one or two have registered that I know of (they havent posted a single thing yet ) and many more are watching and waiting. Well people, its up to you to help your selves, get off ya ass, put ya hand up to do something and help or stop acting like sooky la la's.
you'll get out of it what you put in !
[color=blue][size=150][b]And your cry-baby, whinyassed opinion would be.....? [/b][/size][/color]
Only problem then with "banner parties" like the outdoor/rec. is that they represent too many minorities... one group wants too horse ride through Hyde park and the next wants to hang glide off everything over 2m tall. At what point will 4wdrivers be heard? i.e. how far down the list are we... my thoughts... we don't even make the list 
Re: ...game over!?
MQ080 wrote:but if councils will spend a couple of grand building a skate park for the locals, and other responses to minority groups why can't we have access to already constructed trails?!this?
a couple grand wouldn't even pay the first unstallment to the surveyor to build one little ramp. The last skatepark they built here (big) came to half a million bucks. They could maintain and supervise (?) the use of a hell of a lot of bushland for a few years with that sort of money, I guess?? But I for one wouldn't be interested in driving around some fire trails with ranger stacey telling me where I can and can't drive..
I think it's time to bite the bullet and realise that, unless we have a drastic change in government, the future of this sport is on private property, with unregistered vehicles, and self funded insurance.....
YMMV and shit.....
Re: ...game over!?
Wendle wrote:MQ080 wrote:but if councils will spend a couple of grand building a skate park for the locals, and other responses to minority groups why can't we have access to already constructed trails?!this?
a couple grand wouldn't even pay the first unstallment to the surveyor to build one little ramp. The last skatepark they built here (big) came to half a million bucks. They could maintain and supervise (?) the use of a hell of a lot of bushland for a few years with that sort of money, I guess?? But I for one wouldn't be interested in driving around some fire trails with ranger stacey telling me where I can and can't drive..
I think it's time to bite the bullet and realise that, unless we have a drastic change in government, the future of this sport is on private property, with unregistered vehicles, and self funded insurance.....
YMMV and shit.....
this then brings to light a whole new bunch of outlaws running stuff without insurance and without the proper insurance. We all know insuarance is getting very costly, I wonder where the line will be drawn!
It will become just private property stuff though. In fact it practically is already up here.
hands and mums dont count!!!
Having been at Mq80s home in th recent fires the biggest cop out is porters road being closed for rejeventaion and access for the fire brigade, they didnt go near porters trails but rathered waited for the fires to come to the homes because noone in their right mind would go down porters in a fire for the fear of being trapped in.
Every website associatted with forums and 4wds goes this sucks tracks are being closed which is the case and everyone is passioante and would like to stop this trend. 4wds need to be unified together to get stuck into the governments taking into account its not just the federal liberal govenment repsonsible but also the state labour governments and the local governments. To get access to tracks again deals must made as in as a club we will be resposnisble for this section of the track and will maintain it and anyone not a part of a club shouldnt be given access because they are not accountable to the whole organisation thus taking out irreespobisble ratbags who have over the past given 4wding the bad name that is now associated it with it. Someone with computer knowlegde should set up a webiste with a pettion on it or if not lets organise a massive meeting to sign a pettiotn under the one banner to get up the government.
lots of different perspectives on it
Angus
Every website associatted with forums and 4wds goes this sucks tracks are being closed which is the case and everyone is passioante and would like to stop this trend. 4wds need to be unified together to get stuck into the governments taking into account its not just the federal liberal govenment repsonsible but also the state labour governments and the local governments. To get access to tracks again deals must made as in as a club we will be resposnisble for this section of the track and will maintain it and anyone not a part of a club shouldnt be given access because they are not accountable to the whole organisation thus taking out irreespobisble ratbags who have over the past given 4wding the bad name that is now associated it with it. Someone with computer knowlegde should set up a webiste with a pettion on it or if not lets organise a massive meeting to sign a pettiotn under the one banner to get up the government.
lots of different perspectives on it
Angus
Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative
Leviticus 18:12
Leviticus 18:12
God of Magnificant Ideas!
Otways update:
I was told this morning that not only will the otways be closed to 4X4s but they are going to totally ban ALL fishing from the coastline and immediate river networks aswell, thats ALL fishing ... amatures/recreational anglers included!!.
The ban will be from Geelong and go near to Warrnambool a distance of around 200ks as the crow flies or 4 hours behind the wheel if you drive the coastline. Personally I hate fishing (boring)and couldnt care less about that closurer but that gives you an idea of the mentallty behind our govt.
Perhaps an amalgation with the fishing fraternity might be the ticket, lets face it, alot of fishermen use 4x4's to get to their favourite spots and nodoubt there are many of the 4x4 fraternity that also enjoy a spot of fishing too. There are a LOT of amature/recreational fishermen out there and its a multi million dollar industry in this country !!!
Wont be long and swimming or walking on the beaches will be outlawed aswell due to the enviromental issues that will nodoubt be raised by the narrow minded tree huggers assocation.
In response to the fire comments, I'd rather take my chances on a rutted up track than fighting my way through virgin bush or almost totally overgrown tracks to escape the flames....wouldnt you ?
I was told this morning that not only will the otways be closed to 4X4s but they are going to totally ban ALL fishing from the coastline and immediate river networks aswell, thats ALL fishing ... amatures/recreational anglers included!!.
The ban will be from Geelong and go near to Warrnambool a distance of around 200ks as the crow flies or 4 hours behind the wheel if you drive the coastline. Personally I hate fishing (boring)and couldnt care less about that closurer but that gives you an idea of the mentallty behind our govt.
Perhaps an amalgation with the fishing fraternity might be the ticket, lets face it, alot of fishermen use 4x4's to get to their favourite spots and nodoubt there are many of the 4x4 fraternity that also enjoy a spot of fishing too. There are a LOT of amature/recreational fishermen out there and its a multi million dollar industry in this country !!!
Wont be long and swimming or walking on the beaches will be outlawed aswell due to the enviromental issues that will nodoubt be raised by the narrow minded tree huggers assocation.
In response to the fire comments, I'd rather take my chances on a rutted up track than fighting my way through virgin bush or almost totally overgrown tracks to escape the flames....wouldnt you ?
[color=blue][size=150][b]And your cry-baby, whinyassed opinion would be.....? [/b][/size][/color]
Had some spare time while i was typing my uni assignment today and sent emails of to today tonight and a current affair about our problems that we face with the closure of tracks with Sydney. They may not want to do a story on it but it cant harm trying last resorts before the game is over but they do get heaps of story suggestions but it would be nice for once if they did a story that wasnt on con artists or fat chicks who lost weight from some amazing diet.
Just an attempt i mean i wrote a letter in the local newspaper the week after porters road closed(porters is located in my area and shire) challenging the decision which was published in the letters to the editors but noone replied either way and it went no futher than that
Just an attempt i mean i wrote a letter in the local newspaper the week after porters road closed(porters is located in my area and shire) challenging the decision which was published in the letters to the editors but noone replied either way and it went no futher than that
Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative
Leviticus 18:12
Leviticus 18:12
God of Magnificant Ideas!
Well done Monty, atleast you can say you're doing your bit unlike many others.
Could you do me a favor and copy & paste what you sent to the TV program managers in this forum for all to see, it might encourage others to do something.
Also I'm not sure as to how the administrators/moderators would feel about this but maybe pasting a link to this thread/site might also be an advantage. pay to ask first me thinks
Question....
does any-one have email addys for local,state,& federal MP's????
Could you do me a favor and copy & paste what you sent to the TV program managers in this forum for all to see, it might encourage others to do something.
Also I'm not sure as to how the administrators/moderators would feel about this but maybe pasting a link to this thread/site might also be an advantage. pay to ask first me thinks
Question....
does any-one have email addys for local,state,& federal MP's????
[color=blue][size=150][b]And your cry-baby, whinyassed opinion would be.....? [/b][/size][/color]
When i wrote the emails i didnt say i was from outerlimits or anywhere just said i was a part of a 4wd club that is affiliated with the NSW and ACT 4wd associatiation. Unforuntly dont have the emails but i mentioned all the sutff we are upset about and said could it be a story is simplet terms. I said that is sucks that all the trails have been closed down for no real good reasons as such and that there is a problem that 4wd members are from many little clubs and there is no main banner like mentioned in this thread and that if we got on the show we could send out a message to everyone and try and unite as one againt the damm government.
I guess it would help us to get on air if other people also voiced their concerns to today tonight and accurent afair basically go to their webistes and their is a section that u can type an idea for a story and they will get back t u
aca@nine.com.au just email a current affair on this address as thats what they give u but today night is actually set up in their website.
Angus
I guess it would help us to get on air if other people also voiced their concerns to today tonight and accurent afair basically go to their webistes and their is a section that u can type an idea for a story and they will get back t u
aca@nine.com.au just email a current affair on this address as thats what they give u but today night is actually set up in their website.
Angus
Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative
Leviticus 18:12
Leviticus 18:12
V8Patrol wrote:does any-one have email addys for local,state,& federal MP's????
hunt through these and you'll find them.
Federal : http://www.aph.gov.au/whoswho/index.htm
ACT: http://www.legassembly.act.gov.au/
NSW: http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/
VIC: http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/mps.html
TAS: http://www.parliament.tas.gov.au/
NT: http://www.nt.gov.au/ntg/parlia.shtml
WA: http://www.wa.gov.au/government.html
SA: http://www.parliament.sa.gov.au/
QLD: http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/
Closed tracks = millions in lost tourism dollars.
Towns like Jamison in Vic wont exist anymore.
Its comparable to closing off some of he states beaches - htereis a lot of upkeep expense there also - but it is good for tourism, and keeps people happy.
I agree a united club effort is required. IT is very easy for narrow minded pollies to take the asy option and close off tracks.
Towns like Jamison in Vic wont exist anymore.
Its comparable to closing off some of he states beaches - htereis a lot of upkeep expense there also - but it is good for tourism, and keeps people happy.
I agree a united club effort is required. IT is very easy for narrow minded pollies to take the asy option and close off tracks.
4wd is not only recreation but also a sport, to add this is also a multimillion dollar industry.
in dollar value for this industry and others which prosper as a result, like tourism. we deserve more friendly attention and funding just like other sports.
4wdriving is not a bad thing, but we as a group are considered a problem to nature, while 4wds are available to buy and drive the government should be responcable for providing areas for 4wdrivers to use as a sport.
forget about national parks I'm talking areas free to use at any time for all 4wdrivers.
my other 20 cents worth
glen
in dollar value for this industry and others which prosper as a result, like tourism. we deserve more friendly attention and funding just like other sports.
4wdriving is not a bad thing, but we as a group are considered a problem to nature, while 4wds are available to buy and drive the government should be responcable for providing areas for 4wdrivers to use as a sport.
forget about national parks I'm talking areas free to use at any time for all 4wdrivers.
my other 20 cents worth
glen
God of Magnificant Ideas!
Re: ...game over!?
bj on Crack wrote:It will become just private property stuff though. In fact it practically is already up here.
Even the private Property bit is closing due to running costs.
Monty wrote:Had some spare time while i was typing my uni assignment today and sent emails of to today tonight and a current affair about our problems that we face with the closure of tracks with Sydney. They may not want to do a story on it but it cant harm trying last resorts before the game is over
The Emails will be in your sent folder.
Dude they are the ones telling of KILLER 4wds.. you think they give a f uck about our side of the arguement? Even though one is sponsored by Nissan.
How about the Car makers getting in on the arguement.. If theres nowhere to 4wd, then they wont sell cars will they? Just another option.
GO THE 4WD ASSOCIATION... About as useful as dogs balls on a mozzie.
MQ080 wrote:I agree, they should logically be in the fight. Only problem is all the manufactures are selling big numbers of "soft roaders" and to them money is money. So why try and push patrols when they can easily sell x-trails without "supporting" bush bashers.
watch a bit more TV and you will see the soft roaders riding on a few dirt tracks etc.. can't think of any off the top of my head though.
if you really want to make a big deal out of this, just watch what you say ie 'bush bahsers'
Have to agree with you on that one Brian time to open up the best playground in Sydney when are we doing it Shannon? straight down the back there aint no coming back up those cliffs though it was hard enough pullling up one 31 spare that went over thanks to Whitfield
Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative
Leviticus 18:12
Leviticus 18:12
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