Flexing a 105 Series

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Any help appreciated
I have a HZJ105 (live axle) and am looking at what I can do with the suspension. I want to lift it as little as possible, but increase articulation significantly. Obviously disconnects on the swaybars is step 1. It also must remain a primarily road car. Finally, any shock adsorber swaps must be matched with equivalent bump stop changes as I see too many broken shocks / mounts because the shock is being used as an upper or lower bump stop.

I hear differennt stories re. bushes restricing movement, so any known measurements and limitations would be appreciated. I have only just bought the car, so still have a lot to measure and learn about it.

It currently has an OME setup in it with Castor Correcting bushes. These make me worry about cracking front diff mounts.

Thanx
Paul

[BEU77y]

I've got an 80, and have just got a HZJ105 to replace it. Am planning on swapping most of the parts.

I've tinkered heaps with the 80, and the 105 is basically the same underneath.

Sway bars... removing both of them turns it into a boat on the roads. Funny but not the best to drive.
The front sway bar makes it handle about 70% better.
Daily driving without the back sway bar is not a huge problem.

Changing springs depends a bit on what is on/in the car. Steel bullbar? Steel rear bar? 2nd battery? winch? Heavy stuff in the back? Loaded all the time, or just for holidays?

My 80 is on 2" King springs with Rancho 9000's with in-cab adjuster.

The shocks provide the bottom limit (bump stop) any way.
I've never had any problems with mounts... and my 80's got 430k on it. 150k that I've put on it has been serious punishment.

I've found medium rate springs provide good movment on and offroad.
I've got a 2nd set of heavy duty rear springs for holidays when fully loaded. I've got it down to 15 mins to change them with no rear sway bar. I changed a set on a mates on the way to the Cape in about 45 mins. Standard springs with a hired Kimberly camper just doesn't cut it.

I've just done some work to our 105. It's been lifted but none of the steering checked... handled like a shopping trolley. Scary.
Put a set of offset bushes in the front ....rubber ones are sold by Pedders for about $200.. I've heard about lack of flex in the poly bushes, so I stayed clear of them.

A mate put poly bushes all round on his 5" GQ patrol, spat out a rear bush 15 mins into the bush. Clunk, clunk.

Finally... if yours is locked... what are you worried about... just use the magic buttons dude.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Lockers are cheating, and I hang out with too many rover boys, the travel makes me jealous. I have them, but prefer to drive through.

Using shocks as bottom stops is OK up to a point. If the spring have too much left in them - ie huge preload and long, then it wil be hard stop. I have seen a few cars with snapped shock shafts - guess the cause.

Surely someone out there has done measurements of this stuff?

Paul

[Yumsylux]

sounds like you already know what you want to do. Why are you asking around?

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

I am hoping to avoid a day spent dropping coils in and out measuring distances. I don't feel like bashing all the bushes out to figure out what binds and how much can be gotten out of each joint. Figure different people would have done parts of this already.

eg. any more than 200mm diff side to side will cause bush x to bind. Longer travel than this is pointless without installing y.

[BEU77y]

I've flexed my 80 so many times that most of the bushes are flogged out. Great for that extra bit of flex....
If you want to keep up with Rover's... you'll have to go a five-link front end!

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

The rovers are running the same 3 link front end, and a similar rear end. Some run a nifty centre ball joint on the rear top. If the system and geomety are similar, it should offer simialr potential.

Paul

[dow50r]

Gday
The limiting factors are shock length and front 3 link...the rear will flex with no trouble, ralphs from a gq with top pin eye adapters and a pair of front 75 series bump stops added to the rear will give you another 75mm travel down, and limit travel up by an inch, (so bigger tyres wont rub
Front...6 inch lift gq tough dogs worked out well for my 3 inch lift....they held the spring in place while giving correct travel.
The 100 will need 5.5 degree caster plates and a 4 inch lift, plus you can go body ontop of that...anything more than 4 and you will be paying for alot of mods...and it gets too far away from road orientated...
I hear that there is a mod available for the front diff, where the front mounts for the control bars is pivoted in the middle of the diff...that sounds like a good mod for articulation. Any1 know anything about it???
Andrew

[stinger]

I run 6 inch (apparently) lifted coils on Ranchos that have pin to eye convertors. Also have 35s and lockers an no sway bars.

Back full flex, no problems on when on the stops the other full flex to end of shock with no pressure left on spring.

Front, not so good, have replaced front bushes with rubber one recently not much different in flex to half shot rubber bushes. What I find is that it the inherant design of the 3 link front that binds up quickly and starts to pull the body over.

The centre pivot that dow50r speaks off I think is an offering from over kill. They did do a 5 link front for the 80s for a short time but apparently could not get it right. I am not certain what people expect when you improve the flex in the front, I would assume that it would loose some of its onroad ability. My thoughts only but this whole game is a compromise.....

Thinking about having a go at a fine link front myself..... Lockers will take you a long way but the more wheels on the ground the more traction you have

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

I run 6 inch (apparently) lifted coils on Ranchos that have pin to eye convertors. Also have 35s and lockers an no sway bars.

Back full flex, no problems on when on the stops the other full flex to end of shock with no pressure left on spring.

Front, not so good, have replaced front bushes with rubber one recently not much different in flex to half shot rubber bushes. What I find is that it the inherant design of the 3 link front that binds up quickly and starts to pull the body over.

The centre pivot that dow50r speaks off I think is an offering from over kill. They did do a 5 link front for the 80s for a short time but apparently could not get it right. I am not certain what people expect when you improve the flex in the front, I would assume that it would loose some of its onroad ability. My thoughts only but this whole game is a compromise.....

Thinking about having a go at a fine link front myself..... Lockers will take you a long way but the more wheels on the ground the more traction you have :)

This is what I like to hear.
Your rear is on the stops on one side, and with almost zero on the spring on the other at full flex. Sounds like a great setup. More lift than I really want, but great setup. Now for the questions
1. Are the bump stops factory?
2. What is the shock?
3. Any idea on the shock travel?
4. Any idea on the spring length / rate?

Thanx
Paul

[stinger]

Unfortunately I did not set it up.

1. I believe the bump stops are standard for the 94 model that mine is.
2. The shocks are Ranchos 9 way adjustable, with pin to eye kit.
3. I have never measured the shock travel
4. Again not certain on the spring length or rate, next time I flex her up I will try to remember to measure it, but it could be a week or two before I get out wheeling again. The rear springs are blue and front are red, not that that will help much and the guy I bought it off said it was 6" lift and it was done in Sydney.....

Not much help sorry, except I am not over impressed by Rancho, I have broken off most of the adjusters on rocks and do not find much of a difference between the settings.
Cheers,
Stinger

[lay80n]

Centre pivot - x-link from dobbin engineering. Overkill fitted one to a 80 diff they swapped into a new hilux. Contact dobbin engineering for the info on these, or check the thread in general tech called X-LINK by the professor.

Layto....

[dow50r]

The Toughdog ralphs i used impressed me because they compressed further than a OME shock, but extended further by 2 inches....so that gave alot more usable travel...they really controlled the spring well, because they are hard and tough...load her up and they were perfect.
Andrew