Lpg on deisel is a real go

[michael a]

Hi Guys,

I got lpg put on my td42 it has really made a huge difference. I got 35% more go out it.

Hills that i used to go up in 4th now in 5th. it spins up 35s on the road now with a little fan as well.

[Mkdude]

what did it cost? got pics of the install?

[sudso]

Did you have it dynoed before and after, and did anything else get fixed along with the install?

cheers

[adamj1300]

how does it it improve the economy over?
whats the diesel uasage for every 100kms ?

[michael a]

Have not done a full tank my install pics will be on deisel gas web page soon. cost $4200

that was all i had done to it.

You can tell the increase by turning gas on and off.
If you want H.P its the way to go but.

[mnpalmer]

How big is the LPG tank, and where is it fitted?

[cuzza]

Turbo or no turbo?

[nads]

Turbo or no turbo?

i'd be guessing turbo if the difference is that noticeable.

[bilby]

from memory the best way to do this is tap the LPG in
BEFORE the turbo , the LPG is a cold gas and keeps the
turbo temp down allowing more boost to be run

i have found the article if someone
can post it up for me

[michael a]

Its a turbo

tank mounted under floor on drivers side. I have a 3in body lift so it sits flush with the rails.

[awill4x4]

from memory the best way to do this is tap the LPG in
BEFORE the turbo , the LPG is a cold gas and keeps the
turbo temp down allowing more boost to be run
i have found the article if someone
can post it up for me

Yep, I've seen one of these installs on a Discovery with the LPG guys next door having a laugh at what a piss poor installation it was. A simple egg ring mixer upstream of the turbo that wasn't held securely and could turn in the inlet piping that really restricts air flow into the turbo (even without it turning). A really simple 2 bar map sensor and valve to regulate gas flow with some suspect wiring and plumbing. All this supplied and fitted by one of the largest LPG installers in Vic for $4500+. The guys next door couldn't believe it, they were nearly rolling on the floor with laughter.
The car had just had the head replaced by another mechanic and was blowing black smoke enough to fill their factory when it was on their dyno.
Mike, the owner of the place next door has had the diesel/LPG guys coming in trying to get him interested in doing diesel/LPG installs, he just tells them to piss off he can't believe the bulltish they're sprouting.
Mike tends to end up with the problem cars that other installers have done and with the government rebate the shonky guys are coming out of the woodwork.
Regards Andrew.

[sudso]

Well it obviously works well on some for other people

[michael a]

You just need to go ti the right place someone that does them only.

[micka1]

his dyno read outs were with standard gears (4.11) running 35 s went from 83 hp to 113 hp with the gas switched on nothing was done to the motor just prior tune .
set up looks very professional and neat it works very well .
gas is injected prior to the turbo in the inlet stream .

[turps]

Well it obviously works well on some for other people

Think Andrew was saying that some of the gas/diesel kits are very poor quality so look at whats being fitted.
Theres been enough fitted here and OS in both light and heavy trucks. To say that it does work. Just check the quality of what you are fitting for the $4g+ price tag.
Oh and I want it on my next LWB GQ if theres room. But will fit a turbo/intercooler first.

[bogged]

Well it obviously works well on some for other people

Think Andrew was saying that some of the gas/diesel kits are very poor quality so look at whats being fitted.
Theres been enough fitted here and OS in both light and heavy trucks. To say that it does work. Just check the quality of what you are fitting for the $4g+ price tag.
Oh and I want it on my next LWB GQ if theres room. But will fit a turbo/intercooler first.

findin somewhere good for the tank is what pisses me off, want a LR diesel tank first, but probably wont go with the LPG in the end.

[sudso]

Well it obviously works well on some for other people

Think Andrew was saying that some of the gas/diesel kits are very poor quality so look at whats being fitted.
Theres been enough fitted here and OS in both light and heavy trucks. To say that it does work. Just check the quality of what you are fitting for the $4g+ price tag.
Oh and I want it on my next LWB GQ if theres room. But will fit a turbo/intercooler first.

findin somewhere good for the tank is what pisses me off, want a LR diesel tank first, but probably wont go with the LPG in the end.

I agree, the quality of components, correctly matched systems and correct installation are key components of the systems future reliability. As for "LPG fitters coming out of the woodwork" I suppose that's expected as there's a big demand now for them.
I know a fitter near me who used to have his own LPG fitting business but sold up and took on a workshop managers position for a dealer, he still has his LPG license but said the rules and regs for being a fitter etc. were getting tighter and tighter and anyone doing it has to keep up the training, fitter testing etc. to keep up to speed with the latest developments. Mainly due to the changing technology of vehicles and systems and also that "fitters" are coming out of the woodwork but everyone should ensure their chosen fitter is currently licensed.

He told me of one vehicle in his town that had it done (not by him) and it made no difference to power, torque or economy although it runs fine. It is installed on 6.5 lt. t/d in a Landcruiser. He said until he knows more about the systems and whether they are proven he wont touch them, also you need the computer software to tune them etc.

It seems to be 50/50 success rate from what I've heard so far but even that is all 2nd hand info.

cheers

[awill4x4]

I was talking to Mike the LPG gas fitter about these systems today and he's going to a seminar in the next couple of weeks to find out some more info but at the moment he is very unimpressed with what is being sold to you diesel guys.
For the same money in a petrol engined 4x4 you can get a sequential injected gas vapour system complete with a sophisticated laptop programmable computer with its own dedicated LPG injectors in each inlet runner just like your petrol ones.
It looks like you diesel guys are getting ripped off big time with what's being supplied.
Regards Andrew.

[YankeeDave]

I was talking to Mike the LPG gas fitter about these systems today and he's going to a seminar in the next couple of weeks to find out some more info but at the moment he is very unimpressed with what is being sold to you diesel guys.
For the same money in a petrol engined 4x4 you can get a sequential injected gas vapour system complete with a sophisticated laptop programmable computer with its own dedicated LPG injectors in each inlet runner just like your petrol ones.
It looks like you diesel guys are getting ripped off big time with what's being supplied.
Regards Andrew.

couldnt agree more

[michael a]

If I just had a mixer installed I would agree as well.

I have a computer controled system with a map sensor.

The gas is only turned on when in use.

And you are only paying 2k not 4k because you gate 2k back from the goverment.

[micka1]

the system is fully adjustable via laptop and the gas is altered by the system depending on boost and engine speed via a map sensor and small computer under the dash . and you receive $2000 back from the government . so i think 35 % increase for $2000 is a good deal seeing as it is actually a good system not a backyard job like others spoken of and it works .

[MyGQ]

I have heard from my local LPG place (who are quite good, they had my old Mav on LPG running better than anyone else ever could) that diesel and LPG are bad and that alot of diesel's blow their heads on that mix.

[ricduza]

When I asked my local LPG installer about diesel/LPG, he bagged it too. He is probably the biggest installer in Western Sydney, but only does petrol vehicles. I think he does't know, so just is negative about it. It seems to be a typical and all too common Aussie response to ignorism these days. I have done quite a bit of research and the principle seems to be very good for the engines. It has been quite common for years in large diesel motors, so there has been plenty of time to tell if engine damage has occured and I haven't found anyone so far who has evidence of harm. We all seem to know of a mates, mates cousin who may have had a problem, but who cares. Diesel/gas is cleaner burning and there is much less fouling of the oil, so fewer oil changes are needed etc.

My advice would be to satisfy yourself that the guys will do a professional installation and can guarantee the claims they are making in the way of gains and if you're happy, go for it. Then let us all know with documented proof of the results so we can all then make an educated decision for ourselves. Good luck with it.

Ric

[awill4x4]

If I just had a mixer installed I would agree as well.
I have a computer controled system with a map sensor.
The gas is only turned on when in use.
And you are only paying 2k not 4k because you gate 2k back from the goverment.

Of course you've got a mixer, it's mounted upstream of the turbo into the turbo air intake, and it's just a simple egg ring mixer, nothing special at all. Let's have a look at just what happens to your LPG when it's introduced into an intake system at this point shall we?
If your turbo diesel is a non intercooled version then it's not so bad as the inlet tract is relatively short, but introduce an intercooler and now you have compressed LPG and air going from the turbo through the piping and intercooler all the way to the inlet manifold, in short a highly combustible mixture in a large volume.(especially if it's a front mount intercooler)
Now, I'm the 1st to admit a backfire is less likely to occur with a diesel but if does just what is that flammable mixture (under boost pressure as well) going to do? I've seen petrol/LPG engined cars next door flat bedded to Mikes factory with numerous blown airboxes, airflow meters and probably the most impressive was an F150 with both rocker covers blown up off the heads and through the bonnet and the timing cover was in a dozen pieces, most impressive!
An ignition in the turbo intercooled diesel/LPG would probably be worse particularly if it's pushing 15lbs or more of boost the current crop of small capacity diesels are producing now.
Another thing to think about is the ZD30 Patrols with this conversion, the intercooler has a habit of leaking through the tubes where they enter the header plates and this is a relatively common problem. It's been well reported on numerous forums "my intercooler is leaking what's the problem" So now there's the possibility of air and LPG leaking under pressure from the intercooler into a nice hot engine bay, not a very encouraging thought.
Regards Andrew.

[michael a]

Andrew maybe you should do some more research on this before you start mouthing off.>>>

I have a cpu controled system not just a mixer. Also many times have you ever heard a deisel backfire If it did I would be very worried it wouild mean your pump timing is out so your got big problems anyway.


What other mod is going to give you better fuel economy a 35% increase in power run cleaner produce max boost 500rpm earlier for 2k???

[MyGQ]

never heard of or seen a diesel backfire at all, Diesel's are so much better timed than petrol. petrol engines have the spark plug, leads, coil, timing and points (if your car still has them), if one of them are out, backfire is easy

Diesel just has the pump, if its out, boy are you in trouble


On another note, can you put LPG onto a NA Diesel or do you need turbo?

[micka1]

you can put lpg on a n/a vehicle just doesn't get quite as good results .

i agree with the other posts if you don't know the system or anything about diesels why cut in and have a go at something you don't know diesel and petrol are completely different motors . diesel backfire your kidding mate , how many people have seen this ( not me for one ).

and i think 35 % more horsepower and torque ( with dyno papers to prove ) with a cleaner running motor , better fuel consumption and longer range is pretty good for $2000 . awill4x4 show me another mod that does all this for the price and at the same time show me a backfiring diesel haha

[RRturboD]

Diesels and GAS ... rather than carry on uninformed, those who are considering or want to know more, have not have a look at the Aussie site that flogs the stuff: www.dieselgas.com.au the reports and charts etc paint a pretty good picture.

[zen]

alisport in the uk does a system for the tdi discovery..£400..computer controlled..(though runs on propane gas not lpg as such..)

[michael a]

I took it away on weed end doing some big hills where I would be in 2nd was able to hold 3rd easy. Heaps more go on the dirt in 2wd as well. Gas tank maybe a bit small I think that I should have got a bit bigger one.