I'm new to IFS 4x4s and in looking for uprated suspension kits for my shogun I've been onto ironman's website as i've had their suspension on my LC in the past and thought it supurb. But, it would appear that there are 3 torsion bars length options for a 1996 NJ Paj/Shogun/Monty... 1282mm, 1307mm and 1370mm. Assuming that they're all the same diameter, which one is appropriate? Am i right in assuming that the longer will flex more than the shorter? Am I right in thinking that the longer will allow you to screw up the torsion bar more for a higher front end lift?
All help is appreciated.
Thanks Harv.
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Torsion bars...
Moderator: -Scott-
Hi the susapension travel is limited by the front upper and lower bump stops. You can shave the top BS for a bit more down travel, or for more you'd have to consider flippping the upper ball joints. Ride height is governed by the adjustment on the torsion bars. Wind up the TBs and the RH increase, which increases clearance under the vehicle (but now by much - maybe 25-30mm max)...
BUT this comes at the expense of downward travel. So you may have issues with the suspension crashing out over bumps. The camber also changes and this can introduce worrying bump steer and premature CV boot failure as the drive shaft angle increases a lot. Overall, cause of these probs, I'd stick with the standard height.
Not sure what you mean by longer TBs flexing more. As noted, the flex is limited by the suspension bump stops and the general limitations of the IFS design. Not much you can do other than consider fitting a solid front axle!!
BUT this comes at the expense of downward travel. So you may have issues with the suspension crashing out over bumps. The camber also changes and this can introduce worrying bump steer and premature CV boot failure as the drive shaft angle increases a lot. Overall, cause of these probs, I'd stick with the standard height.
Not sure what you mean by longer TBs flexing more. As noted, the flex is limited by the suspension bump stops and the general limitations of the IFS design. Not much you can do other than consider fitting a solid front axle!!
Nice gq swb ute chop with a huffer for the good times
The 3 lenght have nothing to do with options .
Mitsubishi in their wisdom brought out three different lenghts .
You need to measure your torsion bar & buy the right lenght to suit.
Mitsubishi in their wisdom brought out three different lenghts .
You need to measure your torsion bar & buy the right lenght to suit.
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COIL SPACERS from $46pr
4WD SUSPENSION & BODYLIFTS 0418780611 A/H PH/FAX 07 33512692 - www.zordos4wdsuspension.com.au
COIL SPACERS from $46pr
4WD SUSPENSION & BODYLIFTS 0418780611 A/H PH/FAX 07 33512692 - www.zordos4wdsuspension.com.au
Hi Harvey
the longer bar of the same dia will be softer.
A longer bar has the capacity for more incremental movement over its length but with the travel governed by axle lengths, CV angles and therefore bumpstops its not relevent on a paj.
I'm a believer in the ball joint flip as it increases travel when you have a lift whilst reducing camber and CV angles.
J Top
the longer bar of the same dia will be softer.
A longer bar has the capacity for more incremental movement over its length but with the travel governed by axle lengths, CV angles and therefore bumpstops its not relevent on a paj.
I'm a believer in the ball joint flip as it increases travel when you have a lift whilst reducing camber and CV angles.
J Top
Ditto, I also noticed an improvement in ride quality as I hit the bumps stops less often.J Top wrote: I'm a believer in the ball joint flip as it increases travel when you have a lift whilst reducing camber and CV angles.
J Top
NJ
1994 NJ SWB, 3.5, 5 speed manual, 33's, XD9000, 4.9 diffs, Front & Rear ARB's, Safari Snorkel
2008-2009-2010-2011 Pavlova in the shed.
2008-2009-2010-2011 Pavlova in the shed.
just further to this....
I have been looking at suspension kits for my Shogun/Paj etc....
Ironman say 35mm lift
OME say 20mm lift
TJM say 50mm lift
all say 'torsion bars to suit lift' but am I right in thinking that statement cant be really true? Because I'm thinking given the responses above that my 1308mm length torsion bar will remain 1308mm length regardless and so it's just about winding up the torsion bars or.... do OME/Ironman/TJM make longer torsion bars for the lifts so that when wound up, I have the original 1308mm torsion bar left on my Paj - if that makes sense??
thanks
Harv.
I have been looking at suspension kits for my Shogun/Paj etc....
Ironman say 35mm lift
OME say 20mm lift
TJM say 50mm lift
all say 'torsion bars to suit lift' but am I right in thinking that statement cant be really true? Because I'm thinking given the responses above that my 1308mm length torsion bar will remain 1308mm length regardless and so it's just about winding up the torsion bars or.... do OME/Ironman/TJM make longer torsion bars for the lifts so that when wound up, I have the original 1308mm torsion bar left on my Paj - if that makes sense??
thanks
Harv.
The Torsion bar length is fixed for your vehicle, lift is just how far you wind them up.
I recently put the Ironman kit on. Pretty happy with the results. Their cheap shocks that came with the kit are just that...cheap. They will be replaced down the track, probably with Ranchos or similar.
Bit of a tip, Ironman kit for the swb NH was $650 (pick up) form Bursons at Seven Hills.
edit: oh you said "Shogun", I'm guessing you're not in Oz.
I recently put the Ironman kit on. Pretty happy with the results. Their cheap shocks that came with the kit are just that...cheap. They will be replaced down the track, probably with Ranchos or similar.
Bit of a tip, Ironman kit for the swb NH was $650 (pick up) form Bursons at Seven Hills.
edit: oh you said "Shogun", I'm guessing you're not in Oz.
[color=blue]blue swb gls 3.0 wanker[/color]
Please shed some more light on "ball joint flip" instruction, prurpose and some pics.NJV6 wrote:Ditto, I also noticed an improvement in ride quality as I hit the bumps stops less often.J Top wrote: I'm a believer in the ball joint flip as it increases travel when you have a lift whilst reducing camber and CV angles.
J Top
NJ
Much appreciate it
Daniel
94 NJ SWB 3.0L, Cooper STT 31x10.5, 15x7 Sunraysia.
Removed my aftermarket torsion bars today and simply put the stock items back on.
I got a kit from 4WD Systems and fitted a month or so ago. The coils are OK, Foam Cell shocks are great but the T Bars are like railway tracks. No amount of tweaking could get anything beyond rock solid ride. Very disappointed for the $450 or so (perhaps I should have waited for Ironman as he didn't have stock at the time I wanted them).
I have replaced the stock T bars, cranked three splines and not super tweaked up. Good height and a ride that is reasonable.
Has anyone pulled the front sway bar off? I have read that taking the rear off changes handling very little. I'm concerned about on road braking perfromance if I take the front sway bar off?
Where can I get a "disconnect" and do they work? Can you actually reconnect them after off road use. I have a mate with a Patrol and he reckons he could never reconnect his.
I got a kit from 4WD Systems and fitted a month or so ago. The coils are OK, Foam Cell shocks are great but the T Bars are like railway tracks. No amount of tweaking could get anything beyond rock solid ride. Very disappointed for the $450 or so (perhaps I should have waited for Ironman as he didn't have stock at the time I wanted them).
I have replaced the stock T bars, cranked three splines and not super tweaked up. Good height and a ride that is reasonable.
Has anyone pulled the front sway bar off? I have read that taking the rear off changes handling very little. I'm concerned about on road braking perfromance if I take the front sway bar off?
Where can I get a "disconnect" and do they work? Can you actually reconnect them after off road use. I have a mate with a Patrol and he reckons he could never reconnect his.
89 NG LWB, 3 Ltr Petrol, Cooper ATR's, 2" lift, radios, lights, bars, rack and plenty of scrub related body detailing
Big Blue - were the torsion bars 4WD System's own or some other brand? Also - do you have a winch bumper with winch? If not that could explain the harsh front end with the aftermarket jobbies as they're usually expected to cope with a weighty items on the front and if you don't have the bumper and winch then that could explain the hard ride.
As for swaybars... i removed the rears on my patrol and it handled great. No problems with breaking. I wouldn't remove the front though as i've seen people pop a wheelie at the front when putting their foot down out of a corner without the front swaybar. Makes sense off road. Not on. But, I don't know who does front disconnects so perhaps others can help you on this one.
Harv.
As for swaybars... i removed the rears on my patrol and it handled great. No problems with breaking. I wouldn't remove the front though as i've seen people pop a wheelie at the front when putting their foot down out of a corner without the front swaybar. Makes sense off road. Not on. But, I don't know who does front disconnects so perhaps others can help you on this one.
Harv.
I have an alloy bar, and sadly no winch.
The T Bars where un-branded, simply painted yellow with direction reference marks on them. 4WD Systems do a couple of kits. One is for standard height, essentially an OE replacement kit. The second is a heavier duty kit to cater for loads. It's the latter I got to help with the camping gear. This also provided a 50mm lift on the coils.
I messed around with the tension on the bars, put just couldn't get them right. The instructions for fitting were quite lacking also. They have no index marks on them to line the splines front to rear either.
I'm happy with the coils and would recommend foam cell over gas shocks as they don't seem to fade on ruts.
The T Bars where un-branded, simply painted yellow with direction reference marks on them. 4WD Systems do a couple of kits. One is for standard height, essentially an OE replacement kit. The second is a heavier duty kit to cater for loads. It's the latter I got to help with the camping gear. This also provided a 50mm lift on the coils.
I messed around with the tension on the bars, put just couldn't get them right. The instructions for fitting were quite lacking also. They have no index marks on them to line the splines front to rear either.
I'm happy with the coils and would recommend foam cell over gas shocks as they don't seem to fade on ruts.
89 NG LWB, 3 Ltr Petrol, Cooper ATR's, 2" lift, radios, lights, bars, rack and plenty of scrub related body detailing
Big Blue, get you front sway bar, rip it off and throw it away !
On the open road pay a bit more respect to the speeds posted on the corners, but you more than make up for it with the extra flex from the front end.
Its not unsafe, just "different"
Heres a link to my gains with different "simple" mods.
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... pic&t=4077
On the open road pay a bit more respect to the speeds posted on the corners, but you more than make up for it with the extra flex from the front end.
Its not unsafe, just "different"
Heres a link to my gains with different "simple" mods.
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... pic&t=4077
Cheers
Mat
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92 Pajero 3.0V6 - 91 Pajero 2.5TD
Mat
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92 Pajero 3.0V6 - 91 Pajero 2.5TD
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