Outer Limits 4x4 Board

rover1 wrote:when going longer lower arms you move the diff back, meaning it will be even closer to your guards and mud flaps, be careful if you dont want damage. how close is it now to rubbing/hitting them?
the only way around this is to shorten the uppers as well as lenghten the lowers. which will be a pita, and still wont make the angle of the shaft any better.

Fark why is there always something to be a pain..

I'll take a pic of the back of the car will post up in a few mins

Let me know what u think as i'm not sure if the tyre will get closesr once comprssed..

Cheers

Rick.







What do u reakon ?

If i make this arm 20mm longer does it push my tyre back 20mm or does it move back more or less? Also does that tyre go back when it gets tucked up when flexing?

This is the only tucked pic i have..




Thanks alot everyone for ya help

Rick.

If i make this arm 20mm longer does it push my tyre back 20mm or does it move back more or less? Also does that tyre go back when it gets tucked up when flexing?

Yes and yes. If you have clearance problems at the back of the tyre do what rover1 says and lengthen your lowers 10mm and shorten your uppers 10mm.

You also want your lower arms thicker than 3mm wall. I would be getting at least 8mm wall tube for lower arms as they will cop a flogging whenever you slide over rocks or logs.

Nelso wrote:

If i make this arm 20mm longer does it push my tyre back 20mm or does it move back more or less? Also does that tyre go back when it gets tucked up when flexing?

Yes and yes. If you have clearance problems at the back of the tyre do what rover1 says and lengthen your lowers 10mm and shorten your uppers 10mm.

You also want your lower arms thicker than 3mm wall. I would be getting at least 8mm wall tube for lower arms as they will cop a flogging whenever you slide over rocks or logs.

Hmmm

I might get adjustable lower arms from Superior then i think that's my only option really as i know it will be strong then and i can adjust them..



What do you reakon of them? Any good?

http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/p ... category=3

I just don't know what to do really as i don't wanna make the lowers to long and i don't wanna make them to short.. Also i don't want buy adjustable lower arms and have the same problem with my tyre hit the mudflap and still have to buy upper arms..

hmm

Thanks for ya help

Rick.
Cheers

Rick.

if you want to lengthen the lowwers yes thicher pipe would be better but the longer you make the lowwers the greater the angle of the top uni the more it will growl, iff you make the uppers 18mm - 20mm longer it will solve alot of the problems, I've done this on a few swb gq's running 3" n 4" lifts with full gaurds n 33" tyres. Altough not correct to the drive line rules of uni"s they would use cardan rear shaft to start with n still rotate the diff further back

Well i rang rougly 5 different 4wd shops as well supperior engineering..


I have got so many different oppions it's not funny


I'll tell you what each shop said and see what u guys reakon as some of there advice seemed werid..

1. Make upper arms shorter.

2.Make lower arms longer and shorten uppers and get adjustable arms. That is going to cost a pretty penny though..

3. add another 10mm gearbox sapcer and get longer crossmember bolts that will = 20mm of gearbox spacers then.

4.Take the coil spacers out and live with a 5cm difference i want a level car not looking like i have 5 people in the car and full of sh1t.

5.Look at my panrod bushs and get adjustable panrods and new bushs as that's why the car is vibrating..


What do i do?

I thought it was a simple as making my lowers 20mm longer and that would fix it but then i run into the problem of tyre scrubing the guard..


Thanks alot guys

I know i may sound like a pain in the a$$ so if i'm piss1ng u off just don't reply as the reason i'm asking so many questions is becuase i don't wanna go spend $385 on adjustable upper arms and find it didn't fix one thing and i should have spent the money on lowers...


Thanks alot for ya time

Rick.

I ran a 3" dobinson lift with only gearbox spacers, and only had minor vibrations.

Now run EFS 4" rear and 5" front (soft so it sits level). I have the gearbox spacers in (around 12mm), and 18mm longer lower arms, and its fine.
I'm running 33's, and while I do get guard rub, I don't believe its due to the longer arms.

The lower arms are a weak spot on the Patrol, so in my opinion, I would start with longer/stronger lowers, and only if it doesn't solve the problem would I spend money on uppers.

i dont like gearbox spacer's, think of the stress on the engine mounts and by moving the crossmember down you are making the angle on the front shaft worse.

I'm going to get Cheezy mounts which will help with the alignment issues, but wouldn't the front driveshaft angles improve by dropping the gearbox after a lift?

KIWI wrote:I'm going to get Cheezy mounts which will help with the alignment issues, but wouldn't the front driveshaft angles improve by dropping the gearbox after a lift?

I was thinking the bloody same thing last night becuase i was thinking jee that shaft is kinda close to the crossmember..

Anyway i don't know were on earth i'm going to get 6.0mm+ tube for these lower arms..


Also with these bushs i was told i can't take the orginal ones out i have to cut them out and buy new ones which will be roughly $160 for 4 rubbers


Hmmm what to do LOL

Cheers

Rick.

bushes will press out, i have done this heaps at work, also made my own arms, if you get stuck i might be able to help you out with some longer arms. pm to know more.

now with the shaft angles, standard the flanges on the drive shaft are the same close to 90deg. |- -| , now lower the gearbox and its looks like this \- at the rear and -\ at the front.

KIWI wrote:I ran a 3" dobinson lift with only gearbox spacers, and only had minor vibrations.

Now run EFS 4" rear and 5" front (soft so it sits level). I have the gearbox spacers in (around 12mm), and 18mm longer lower arms, and its fine.
I'm running 33's, and while I do get guard rub, I don't believe its due to the longer arms.

The lower arms are a weak spot on the Patrol, so in my opinion, I would start with longer/stronger lowers, and only if it doesn't solve the problem would I spend money on uppers.

Cheers mate i'm leaning towards longer lowers but not adjustable as there not as strong and i'm after something that won't let me down..


Well when my car got this vibration at the start before coil spacers i added those gear box spacers.. Now that made a fair bit of a difference less drive shaft grind and that low speed vibration wasn't as bad.. so what could i do to get the same effect as gearbox spacers without using gearbox spacers as extra prssure on mounts and shit isn't good.

Also before i added the gearbox spacers my car seemed to handle ok but now these gearbox spacers seemed to have made the car light in the steering wheel and now wanders again i thought making the back 30 - 40mm higher wouldn't have made the car handle like crap once again like i have no castor

Anyway i'm going to take the spacers out till i an finally work out what i need to fix it as there so many different oppions flying around i have no idea what to do

KIWI would u mind posting up a pic of ya car with the lift to get some idea how big it is and a pic of ya driveshaft angle and stuff to get a idea on what those lowers do..

Thanks alot

Rick..

No problem, will get a couple of pics up 2moro arvo for you.


Dave

Mulisha wrote:I was thinking the bloody same thing last night becuase i was thinking jee that shaft is kinda close to the crossmember..

Anyway i don't know were on earth i'm going to get 6.0mm+ tube for these lower arms..


Also with these bushs i was told i can't take the orginal ones out i have to cut them out and buy new ones which will be roughly $160 for 4 rubbers

With a big lift you have to cut a piece of the crossmember or bend it so the driveshaft clears but you shouldn't have to worry about it for a 3" lift. As has been said you don't want to go more than the crossmember spacers you have now.

For you lower arms use Hollow bar. It's thicker walled than steam pipe but will still bend rather than break like crome-molly or bright bar.

As rover1 said, bushes press out ok. Just don't press onto the rubber, use a socket or something similar to press on the outer metal sleeve.

As for who to listen to. You have a few of us here that have done this to our own cars saying the same thing. If someone in a shop is trying to give you advise look at their history of modifying SWB GQs. If they haven't done any, ignore them. I didn't run a double carden with a 4" lift, I only fitted it when I went to a 7" lift. KIWI is running a bigger lift than yours without one. To get rid of the vibration you need to run the uni's at the same angle, which means rotating your diff forward. You can do this by lengthening your lower arms 18mm, OR you could lengthen your lowers 9mm and shorten your uppers 9mm which will position your diff housing in the middle of the wheel arch when fully compressed which will stop your tyres rubbing on the mudflap. The cheapest option is to replace your lower control arms only and to make them longer and stronger. The expensive option is to do both uppers and lowers. It's up to you as to which way you want to go, but they are your only real options. Now get out there and get it done.

Nelso wrote:

Mulisha wrote:I was thinking the bloody same thing last night becuase i was thinking jee that shaft is kinda close to the crossmember..

Anyway i don't know were on earth i'm going to get 6.0mm+ tube for these lower arms..


Also with these bushs i was told i can't take the orginal ones out i have to cut them out and buy new ones which will be roughly $160 for 4 rubbers

With a big lift you have to cut a piece of the crossmember or bend it so the driveshaft clears but you shouldn't have to worry about it for a 3" lift. As has been said you don't want to go more than the crossmember spacers you have now.

For you lower arms use Hollow bar. It's thicker walled than steam pipe but will still bend rather than break like crome-molly or bright bar.

As rover1 said, bushes press out ok. Just don't press onto the rubber, use a socket or something similar to press on the outer metal sleeve.

As for who to listen to. You have a few of us here that have done this to our own cars saying the same thing. If someone in a shop is trying to give you advise look at their history of modifying SWB GQs. If they haven't done any, ignore them. I didn't run a double carden with a 4" lift, I only fitted it when I went to a 7" lift. KIWI is running a bigger lift than yours without one. To get rid of the vibration you need to run the uni's at the same angle, which means rotating your diff forward. You can do this by lengthening your lower arms 18mm, OR you could lengthen your lowers 9mm and shorten your uppers 9mm which will position your diff housing in the middle of the wheel arch when fully compressed which will stop your tyres rubbing on the mudflap. The cheapest option is to replace your lower control arms only and to make them longer and stronger. The expensive option is to do both uppers and lowers. It's up to you as to which way you want to go, but they are your only real options. Now get out there and get it done.

Mate that's what i wanted to hear !

How hard would it be to make my upper and lowers longer by that 9mm by just cutting the orignal ones and get a engineering place to reweld the new pipe in?

Also do i just go to a steel shop and ask for extra heavy steel walled tube? Someone was saying 6.0mm wall thickness at the min?

And one other thing with pressing these bushs out do they split or anything when they do get prssed out as there like $40ea for bushs arn't they?

Cheers

Rick.

The heavy walled pipe is called Hollow Bar. It's basically a solid bar with a small hole in the middle of it.

Make new lowers (you can cut the ends off your originals and weld them onto 40x20 Hollow Bar, or 40x25 Hollow Bar) but you can cut, shorten and laminate your uppers if you want. Press the rubbers out before you weld the rings back on as you will melt the rubber in the bush.

As long as you press on the metal sleeve and not the rubber they won't split.

Nelso wrote:The heavy walled pipe is called Hollow Bar. It's basically a solid bar with a small hole in the middle of it.

Make new lowers (you can cut the ends off your originals and weld them onto 40x20 Hollow Bar, or 40x25 Hollow Bar) but you can cut, shorten and laminate your uppers if you want. Press the rubbers out before you weld the rings back on as you will melt the rubber in the bush.

As long as you press on the metal sleeve and not the rubber they won't split.

Sweet as mate ur a legend.. i won't be able to start this till next monday though as this week is almost over but i'll find someone to press out these old bushs and someone to weld the new pipe... in and stuff...

I have been trying to find somewere i can buy replacment bushs incase the do stuff up when getting prssed out or they are already stuffed and need replacing...

Be good if u could buy a bush kit for the lower arms and same for upper arms..

Cheers

Rick.

You can buy them individually from Nissan.

Not sure if this is what you are after, but let me know if theres other pics you want.....

Thanks so much mate for that becuase it looks like u have fliped ur tailshaft around

Does fliping ya tailshaft make better angles or somthing?

Also went for a highway drive today and my god the car is so hard to control follows all the grooves in the road and shit i just wounder how the steering and handling of the car was effected by rasing the rear of the car 40 mmor so?

Also i'm thinking of getting adjustable uppers from Supersior engineering and just making my lowers longer by getting some new tube welded in to make it stronger and the right length..


But i would be very interested to see what oppions people have with turnng around the tailshaft becuase that might solve a few problems..

Thanks alot

Rick.

buy a LWB - swap everything onto the LWB, turbo, lift, tires etc, sell shorty, live happily ever after.

bogged wrote:buy a LWB - swap everything onto the LWB, turbo, lift, tires etc, sell shorty, live happily ever after.

no.

buy some 3rds production rear arms

i dont think he wants to do this to his guards/flaps.

rover1 wrote:i dont think he wants to do this to his guards/flaps.

Thanks mate for that...

Well Rover1 i have been thinking about it and maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to replace flares with something else as when my parents owned the car they hit a kangaroo and cracked one and there all little bit stuffed really...


I won't be taking them off to fit that flexi flare crap i'm going to look around for something that doesn't flop down i want something that will hold it's shape and no sag everywere.

I ripped a mudflap off yesterday so that's why i'm having second thoughts really as the factory mudflaps and flares have had better days really.


I rang snake rasing he said adjustable lowers to bring back my wheelbase and out everything back into the right spot.

I rang Superior and they said to get upper arms and don't listen to snake racing they don't know what there talking about..

I then rang a local 4wd shop and he spin my tailshaft around I mentioned that to another guy and he said i would never do that ..

So i think i might get some lowers anyway and asked my local engineering shop and they won't weld some hollow bar for me to make my lowers ..

Thanks alot

Rick.

a plastic welders can repair your factory flares last set I got done for a customer was $25 each. with liability these days some people dont want to do anything

Mulisha wrote:I then rang a local 4wd shop and he spin my tailshaft around I mentioned that to another guy and he said i would never do that ..

try searching, you will find its not so laughable.

Mulisha wrote:

rover1 wrote:i dont think he wants to do this to his guards/flaps.

Thanks mate for that...

Well Rover1 i have been thinking about it and maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to replace flares with something else as when my parents owned the car they hit a kangaroo and cracked one and there all little bit stuffed really...


I won't be taking them off to fit that flexi flare crap i'm going to look around for something that doesn't flop down i want something that will hold it's shape and no sag everywere.

I ripped a mudflap off yesterday so that's why i'm having second thoughts really as the factory mudflaps and flares have had better days really.


I rang snake rasing he said adjustable lowers to bring back my wheelbase and out everything back into the right spot.

I rang Superior and they said to get upper arms and don't listen to snake racing they don't know what there talking about..

I then rang a local 4wd shop and he spin my tailshaft around I mentioned that to another guy and he said i would never do that ..

So i think i might get some lowers anyway and asked my local engineering shop and they won't weld some hollow bar for me to make my lowers ..

Thanks alot

Rick.

that was a tree not a wheel or tyre

search


then search some more


Longer stronger lowers.

Take off your rear qtr's and open your gaurds a touch, make/buy a bar to protect em....First decent rut your in, "Crunch" and the back half of your car will never look quite the same again

nuff said

Dunno why your threads get dragged out so much for mulisha, 99% of its been covered before just for some reason people seem not to flame you

Simon

shakes wrote:search


then search some more


Longer stronger lowers.

Take off your rear qtr's and open your gaurds a touch, make/buy a bar to protect em....First decent rut your in, "Crunch" and the back half of your car will never look quite the same again

nuff said

Dunno why your threads get dragged out so much for mulisha, 99% of its been covered before just for some reason people seem not to flame you

Simon

yeah i never usally getted flammed for some reason or other some people post up something get burnt to a crisp really..

Not sure maybe it'sw becuase i'm asking decent questions and becuase i ask every single little thing on this board they will only to have to type in "mulisha" to get a answer to what ever they need to know

Cheers

Rick.