Outer Limits 4x4 Board

chris you always amaze me what you can get done with tight budgets, a handful of tools and some ingenuity. Can't wait to see the final outcome

grimbo wrote:chris you always amaze me what you can get done with tight budgets, a handful of tools and some ingenuity. Can't wait to see the final outcome

Thanks.
I surprise myself sometimes.
It's a team effort, though. I get help from OL and other forums(including a 4wd camper forum), help from Zook Club, and a bit of help from friends and family.
Now I'm not editor/moderator/trip co-ordinator I have more spare time. Must make some more things

Original I only wanted to mod an existing trailer, but they all seem to be made of rust, gold or both.
Least this way it will be closer to what I want, tho it may actually cost more?

A big to everyone

christover

Looking good so far.. one question. How are you going to see the TV from the lounge when its finished ????

want33s wrote:Looking good so far.. one question. How are you going to see the TV from the lounge when its finished ????

I'll just sleep in the trailer, should be able to see from there

As we can see in the pix, I'm now messing around with the mudguards. I designed the width of the box with these in mind. I'm happy they worked out right. Only got 1, as buying 2 would mean no more work gets done fer 2 weeks.
Only needed one to work out trailer box side height, then we will get on with that.
I may run sides equal with, or just above mudguard height, still thinking, but they will be around 11 - 12" or 28 - 30cm.
Excuse the mess and oil spillages, I must be sloppy sod

Chris, it is starting to look like something, good work.
I don't know how proficient you are at reversing a trailer, but remember that the longer the draw bar the more expert you will look, I myself am a "gun" but I would not look forward to reversing that back down a slippery hill I was unable to conquer.

Here is anther thing to consider, "telescopic draw bar" we had one for years on our 6x4, extended we could Carry things 4.8M long or shorten it up if required, we found we rarely shortened it so we welded it in the extended position, just something to consider.
Peter.

droopypete wrote:Chris, it is starting to look like something, good work.
I don't know how proficient you are at reversing a trailer, but remember that the longer the draw bar the more expert you will look, I myself am a "gun" but I would not look forward to reversing that back down a slippery hill I was unable to conquer.

Here is anther thing to consider, "telescopic draw bar" we had one for years on our 6x4, extended we could Carry things 4.8M long or shorten it up if required, we found we rarely shortened it so we welded it in the extended position, just something to consider.
Peter.

I agree fully. I had a very short draw bar on my moke trailer that was for carrying my ex wifes electric wheel chair. I gave up backing it, and just unhooked it and walked it around

I have compensated a little for this by having the axle more towards the rear, which also gives it a better dep angle.
I like the telescopic idea, a mate had one, was very useful.
Will be easy to add that in later if needed.

Backing is the biggest drawback to having a trailer.
christover

carpark testing is needed

I need to do same when i get a 6x4 i am getting soon.

nicbeer wrote:carpark testing is needed

I need to do same when i get a 6x4 i am getting soon.

Yep, it will get plenty of testing before I drive it in public view
Including a few off road shake downs.

Not that they don't already laugh at me

I do have leeway built in, in case length etc aint optimal.

Also the hitch will add a bit, and fitting of it may need adjustments to get height of trailer level etc.

I'm just making it up as I go along.

PS I'm too soft to drive a hill I can't get up anyway



christover

I have a hitch here you can have, brand new.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:I have a hitch here you can have, brand new.
Steve.

Thanks for the offer, normal type hitch won't fit, until I legthen/lower the tow bar tongue. Quick release handle hits stuff.
But will let you know if I need it, thanks.

May even convert to square tube removeable type, yet.

It is starting to look like something now.
Just got to do light mounts/bracing on rear end, then it should be welding time?
I need to bolt the guards on yet, after getting another.

Your back garden needs work

droopypete wrote:Your back garden needs work

It sure does, theres always more important stuff to do than gardening

I'm very happy with the ride height of trailer to car ratio. It's a little out, but will square up when the off road coupling is fitted. Was part of the plan, but still lucky it worked
Also pleased with the trailer wheel to car rear wheel base, as it is almost exactly the same as cars wheel base. Also part of the plan, but plans often wander off track sometimes. So lucky again.
I used a solid chunk of steel for the lights brackets, as then they double as bracing for the rear of the sides. Door hole makes it harder to achieve any other way.
Size and shape was partly governed by the thought of using basic truck lites as on me zook, and partly by the sizes of available metal in the shops scrap pile
Next is probably bracing to suit whatever floor material I use, and try to makes sides/arches sit on proof (As I know me or somebody will)
This is probably it for a bit, metal ran out, money ran out and I'm stuffed christover

looks the goods dude. likeing all the pics too.. keep it up.

vicelore wrote:looks the goods dude. likeing all the pics too.. keep it up.

Thanks.
I have trouble keeping it up.
Thats what trailers for.
Huge supply of viagara every where I go

droopypete wrote:http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?t=116190

7 x 5 is big enuff for the trailer to tow the zook

That was my original plan, only with a 5x 3 bob tailed.

Not a lot done lately.
Hurt me back a tad (making the bed, not what you think)

But we did get the floor cross beams in place and some stiffeners for the long sides.
Also worked out where shox will go, see pic.

Originally planned for them under floor, but would need too steep an angle on the shox.
They are better protected under guards, too.

The shox I have are way too stiff and long for the job, so I will hunt the wreckers for something betterer soon.

Car and trailer just fit in garage,

Another guard and shock mounting and we ready to weld.

what about stock rear shocks out of a sierra?

nicbeer wrote:what about stock rear shocks out of a sierra?

I think they may be rear shox that I have, only after market.
They got over 6" of travel and 2 eyes.
Maybe front stockers may be good?
I may hassle the zook club for somebody's old shox to play with.
If successful will buy newbies later.

You're doing really well Chris.

Couple of small critiques/comments though -

My understanding is that slipper style spring packs on trailers do not require shock absorbers to be fitted. The slipping action of the springs on the chassis provides enough damping. Also, the axle moves rearwards on compression so with your shocks mounted as you are planning will be doing less travel than the axle so they'll be less effective this way.

There are a number of reasons why trailers don't generally require shocks unless they are coil sprung.

I am a touch concerned that the angle from the drawbar back will be insuffucient. you might want to double it up with another piece reversed and fitted underneath like this:

l
l____
l
l
This shouldn't affect your design too much but will help prevent the angle opening up and the trailer bending between the spring pads.

Just some thoughts.
Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:
My understanding is that slipper style spring packs on trailers do not require shock absorbers to be fitted. The slipping action of the springs on the chassis provides enough damping. Also, the axle moves rearwards on compression so with your shocks mounted as you are planning will be doing less travel than the axle so they'll be less effective this way.

I am a touch concerned that the angle from the drawbar back will be insuffucient. you might want to double it up with another piece reversed and fitted underneath like this:

This shouldn't affect your design too much but will help prevent the angle opening up and the trailer bending between the spring pads.

Just some thoughts.
Steve.

I see your point on the springs/shox.
Diagram is a bit over simplified, if I used shorter shox they would be more upright. That angle is what the shox I have would sit at.
If I think I need shox, and want them to lean, then leaning back would clearly be better.
I softened the springs with shox in mind, but can always put back a leaf if need be.
The 2nd main leaf holds the pressure on the slipper bit, whereas mine hangs free.
The theoretical travel of spring set up is 4" but in reality it will never go that far and will sit on no compression at all at rest.

The angle for chassis is 50 x 50 x 5mm guage. It should cope, but I could easily beef it up it it can't.
I was going to use u channel to stiffen it and to be spring mounts, but it meant a weak point at the draw bar connection.. I wanted to spread the twist/bend out over the full length, rather than concentrate it at one point....that was the thinking good or bad

thanks for input
christover

Don't be too concerned with compression of flex in a trailers suspension. I assume it won't be heavily loaded, so no real compression and trailers don't flex, hence the off road hitch.

If you absolutely have to have shocks (don't see a great need for local type camping) i'd look at something out of a leaf rear Corolla or similar. Theoretically they should be fairly soft in the valving coming from a light duty car with low capacity and having leaves. They'll also be cheap from a wreckers.

sierrajim wrote:Don't be too concerned with compression of flex in a trailers suspension. I assume it won't be heavily loaded, so no real compression and trailers don't flex, hence the off road hitch.

If you absolutely have to have shocks (don't see a great need for local type camping) i'd look at something out of a leaf rear Corolla or similar. Theoretically they should be fairly soft in the valving coming from a light duty car with low capacity and having leaves. They'll also be cheap from a wreckers.

That's where my brain is going too.
Cheap soft leafy shox from wreckers.
It may do longer outback trips as well.
It won't compress much at all.
I jump on it and only get an inch.
It will be loaded light for sure.
Really only considering suspension and shox to prevent corrugations etc shaking trailer to bits.
But no I'm not too concerned with shox.
My last camper, on my Moke, never got its planned shox, cos it never seemed to need them.
It had same single leaf spring set up.

christover

christover1 wrote: Really only considering suspension and shox to prevent corrugations etc shaking trailer to bits.

Remember a trailer has only one axle so it doesn't ride like a car. Basically, the more freely the axle can move the better. As you have slipper springs, they can't bounce forever like a spring with shackles, so the damping is already being done for you.

Shocks are just one more thing to build strength for, will add weight to the trailer and complexity you don't need. Leave them off IMHO.

If you had shackles, it might be desirable to have shocks (although my Dad's trailer has shackles and no shocks and rides fine) but adding shocks to a trailer with slipper springs will only slow the axle movement down more which will make the ride more harsh, especially on corrugations.

As Jim said, trailers don't really need their suspension to do much, and much of the way the trailer rides will be influenced by the movement of the tow vehicle.

Steve.

So another option may be to put the bind back into the springs to be the damper.

With 2 or more leaf springs packs the 1st leaf rests against the trailer and the 2nd pushes down against the bottom of spring mount, and that clearly would bind and slow down the bounce.

With my single leaf it only rests against the chassis and is free to flop down. One option could be to tighten the hole it slips thru.

christover

Well that was an easy solution.
At 1st I considered putting back the 2nd leaf, removing the 3rd instead. But the 3rd had the spring locating clamps.
This would make it too stiff. Its perfect now.

So I just spaced the hole the slipper goes thru, so no more flop on down travel, and no bounce either.
Thanks guys, saved me back, time and money.

I doubt I will need more than the slippers, never did on anything else.
Remembering back to my Moke camper, it had only one leaf, but went thru a tight hole.

Now its just 2nd mudguard, rechecking squareness and weld frame together.
Floor and lining not decided yet, tho alloy sounds nice.
cheers
christover

Finaly the chassis and frame are ready for welding.
Then I'll do lighting and wiring.
Followed by hitch then floor and sides.
I think i've made the guards "sit on" proof, though I won't be encouraging it.