Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Would a RB 30 qualify...with exhaust mods only....or is it limited to TB 42.
I reckon my RB30 in standard trim except for extractors and exhaust is equal to a standard TB42 at low revs in low range...


Cheers Keith

bogged wrote: Your talking about running this class AT other events - correct? Do you think these rigs will struggle to the point of breaking things regularly running same courses as these other rigs? this will cause $$$$ issues...

Or are you thinking of possibly a 4 round series on different weekends.. better for competitors, possibly closer racing, better spectators, but then again more costs, more admin, more marshalls..

What size tire are you thinking of, 33/285's ?? Are you thinking MT's only?? No Boggers, simex's, claws etc??

LWB/SWB?

What are your class thoughts at this stage? after some discussion, as to specs, regs, mods etc...

Bogged a less powerful Patrol could be driven in any of the events and probable do less damage to there vehicles. Have a look at some of the stuff that guys drive on most weekends. Yes there under the clock and will go harder. But this is where those that point and shoot will loose out to those that think.

As for tyre size. I get where you coming from and saying that theres 250 people in the club and only a couple have anything bigger than 34's. But out of that 250, at a guess only a couple would actaully race. This would be the same across most clubs. BGO club only has 2 members with 35's. And mine dont go on the 4wd when I go off-road.

I like the sound of this class and would be very interested in building my GQ to suit this class. But i do agree mith the maximum roof height over the 2"suspension and 2"body lift. Alot of people would find this rule alot easier if they want to have the car as a DD or just wants to drive it to a track on a weekend with out standing out in the croud.

Controled tyre is a great idea, if it is one brand only im sure they can do the offer on diffrent sizes. Most sizes would be only 33s or 35s.

Front bar should be any style, winches should be low mount as high mounts would be hard to come across in these numbers and doesnt allow people with varried budgets join in.

I would personaly like cut downs allowed, if they are i would restrect it to something like wagons can only be cut down to dual cabs and swb to style sides (like MQs with canopy off). Not much weight is lost here and brings a diffrent look to the series so it could be a little easier to seperate teams.

Total agree with only letting TB42 and TD42 only.

Leave factory utes out of the series as they are to expensive to buy compared to lwb and swb nissans.

I hope this gets off the ground as it sounds like a great concept.

What I always liked about the Jeepspeed ethos is that its all off the shelf products. No limits etc. If you can buy it use it. If its fabbed its a no go. You can fab the cage and strenghten the chassis etc but aside from that it was originally a no go zone.

So why not make it that you can do whatever you want to your GQ as long as they are retail products (no custom)

Darren, this is an awesome Idea. I think it's exactly what our Sport needs. It's heading down the line where most people can't afford it or they are getting into way too much debt.
It's simple, write the rules, everyone builds their cars to the rules. It has to be black & white. No grey areas!
Just like CAMS. Class 7 in off road racing is quite simular as in modifications.
I think this will have a huge impact on the sport and make it continue to grow. Certain companies will benefit out of this as well as the competitors.
I am building a car to do the outback next year in Trophy class. I thought it was a more standard class where people with not a huge amount of money can compete and be competitive. I then read the CCDA rules and it's a joke! I'm sorry if i've offended anyone from the CCDA but there is soooooooooooo many grey areas!! It's still a class of cheque book racing!
Starting this GQ glass will be the best thing for most people that want to compete. Everyone who loves 4wdriving talks about competing around the camp fire on a 4wd trip. Now it can happen!

If you need a hand Darren, count me in!! I might be able to pull some sponsors too

jimmyb wrote:What I always liked about the Jeepspeed ethos is that its all off the shelf products. No limits etc. If you can buy it use it. If its fabbed its a no go. You can fab the cage and strenghten the chassis etc but aside from that it was originally a no go zone.

So why not make it that you can do whatever you want to your GQ as long as they are retail products (no custom)

jimmy no offense dude but i think your missing the point of this series. Its to limit the amount of bolt on extras that make comp trucks comp trucks, because in reality thats all they are, a std car with a heap of dosh and after market bits thrown into the works, so the aim of this series is to control what people can bolt on to the car to keep the playing field level for all income earners alike

Looks as though this is generating a lot of interest and wil be a great competition.

My only concerns are those of tyres ect. relating directly to sponsorship. What happens if someone goes out and buys a set of 35" Maxxis for example to compete, and then next yaer Simex are sponsering and everyone has to change tyres?

Are the sponsers going to supply gear to those genuinely interested in competing, or assist dramatically with costs, or provide long-term commitments to sponsorship deals?

GQ Bear wrote:Looks as though this is generating a lot of interest and wil be a great competition.

My only concerns are those of tyres ect. relating directly to sponsorship. What happens if someone goes out and buys a set of 35" Maxxis for example to compete, and then next yaer Simex are sponsering and everyone has to change tyres?

Are the sponsers going to supply gear to those genuinely interested in competing, or assist dramatically with costs, or provide long-term commitments to sponsorship deals?

this has been discussed. 1 set of tyres can be purchased per year. this will stop multiples being purchased and sold of for profit. realistically 1 set of tyres should last a year. damaged ones can be replaced at the discounted rate. this is easy to police with the ccda log book system.
we would expect control tyre to remain for 2 years then be re-tendered

sound very good darren , but why no cut down wagons or shorties ?

turps wrote:As for tyre size. I get where you coming from and saying that theres 250 people in the club and only a couple have anything bigger than 34's. But out of that 250, at a guess only a couple would actaully race. This would be the same across most clubs. BGO club only has 2 members with 35's. And mine dont go on the 4wd when I go off-road.

correct to a point, but more maybe interested if its kept at a lower end and they dont have to have 'special' tires just for 2-3 weekends a year... thats why i keep asking who its aimed at - people who already have basic cars, which will be good and bad, for those that have just spend $1200 on 4in suspension and $1200+ on 35 pedes etc its going to suck anus.

No one has explained why a wagon chopped into a ute,
is any different to a ute?

A ute (as long as it looks factory) is a ute

why would this not be ok?

Fozdick wrote:No one has explained why a wagon chopped into a ute,
is any different to a ute?

A ute (as long as it looks factory) is a ute

why would this not be ok?

I've talked to darren about this.

The reason why there is to be no chops, as most (not saying it cant be done) arent done professional.

The aim is for trucks that are competing can be easily reconised to the general public i.e. so that they could possibly take interest if vehicles were all cut down and done professional we go back to the orginal argument of chq book racings as its not cheap to do this properly.

Darren aim is to have the following

LWB wagon stay the same.
SWB to stay full bodied not ute chop or ute cab put on place.
LWB ute to stay as normal with a tray...

You can discriminate the utes from the comp as long they run a tray i'm sure tray dimension and specifications will need to be looked into futher.

Does this clear everything up a bit ?>

This idea sounds great, what it there was a sub class for engines ie td42, tb42, rb30 etc. Each vehicle is competing against like vehicles, then there can be an overall event winner from the winner of the sub classes.

I'll even sponsor and put a vehicle in the diesel class. As for nitrous, its illegal for road applications, its expensive to use, but if allowed i can make my diesel use it and benefit from it.

i think winches should be open but standard.

My thoughts

Andy

bogged wrote:correct to a point, but more maybe interested if its kept at a lower end and they dont have to have 'special' tires just for 2-3 weekends a year... thats why i keep asking who its aimed at - people who already have basic cars, which will be good and bad, for those that have just spend $1200 on 4in suspension and $1200+ on 35 pedes etc its going to suck anus.

You'll never please everyone when you're creating a class like this.
The basic ideas here (correct me if i'm wrong Darren) is to create a class for people to compete in that they don't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on theres cars to be competitive.
What you want is to create a class to allow every tom dick and harry who has a GQ to come and conmpete in.
Racing costs money! simple cut and dry. This class will not only allow alot of already modded cars to make some changes and come and compete, but will entice people with stockies to build up to this level to come and compete.
With a stock GQ for under ten grand you could have a cage, twin lockers, a bar and highmount and some springs and shockers and tyres and your in this class with a chance.
If you've already got the car but need to buy tyres then its a 1500 dollar investment. CHEAP motor sport there.
Positive support for this class would be far more beneficial for the entire sport than negative whining coming from people who are more than likely never going to be on the angry side of the bunting.
Keep up the good work Darren

there are 2 aims here:

1 to make the sport affordable to all, most should be able to spend up to 10k total inc purchase of vehicle ready to race ( with a bit of wheel'n and dealing)
2 to keep every one with equal cars and equal chance of winning, so you know that you are racing your car against same cars, not chopped and turbo'd. level playing feild. to keep the racing fair. not blame the reason for coming crap was because he has faster winch blah blah, he had coil overs blah blah turbo, v8 blah.

the reason why body chops is a issue to me is if i cant chop down my wagon after i wreck it i had to find a whole new body . buy cutting it down and having suitable roof bars , tray cages , ect . it again saves money ! also for some of the taller drivers/navi that find the fatory coil-cab a little lacking in leg room you can have a extra cab!!

plus wagon & shorty bodies are cheap compare to a ute cab !!!!

other than that all sounds good ,which is what MMM has done with the XWC series , where the cars run the same track , with the same DNF times , scores as one comp but with an extra class 1st , 2nd & 3rd .

also i dont think all the people wanting to compete in there daily driver is what this is about . you should build a comp car , thats bought and built to fit into the spec , once finalised

tuf355 wrote:also i dont think all the people wanting to compete in there daily driver is what this is about . you should build a comp car , thats bought and built to fit into the spec , once finalised

exacery !

finally some sense .

it is a comp vehicle still.

there is guidelines and regulations to abide by.

no wagons chopped up, no swb chopped up! why? because the GUIDELINES and REGULATIONS say so. if you damage you lwb, fix it, or reshell it. if every one starts choppin up there wagons etc you may aswell enter the trophy class..

this is out of control.

FFS Daz, Make it clear already! alot of these people sound confused and its going to end up pissin alot of people off!

Dzltec wrote:This idea sounds great, what it there was a sub class for engines ie td42, tb42, rb30 etc. Each vehicle is competing against like vehicles, then there can be an overall event winner from the winner of the sub classes.

I'll even sponsor and put a vehicle in the diesel class. As for nitrous, its illegal for road applications, its expensive to use, but if allowed i can make my diesel use it and benefit from it.

i think winches should be open but standard.

My thoughts

Andy

Ive got a shorty just begging to be sponsored...


Im keen on this, but i think 10 thou for all mods including car is a bit optimistic. unless getting deals on everything

I mean
winch - second hand jobby 800 still dual batts would be needed
lockers - 2400 approx
lift - 1200 approx
cage - ?? 2k?
diff ratios - 600

tyres maybe 1500

if not tyres your still looking at 7 grand without a car.

what sort of deals/group buys would people be looking at?

tuf355 wrote:the reason why body chops is a issue to me is if i cant chop down my wagon after i wreck it i had to find a whole new body . buy cutting it down and having suitable roof bars , tray cages , ect . it again saves money !

If you wreck your wagon in GQ class and want to chop it then you come back and compete in trophy or challenge
It's not costing you any more to compete is it?

Just reading this and wondering with the chopped wagons. I have no idea so this is an honest question not a shit stir.

Is there an advantage of a chopped wagon with a standard tray over a standard ute?

If the answer is no then what does it matter if someone does this because it is cheaper than repairing the back of the wagon or what ever.

If it does have an advantage then I can see the reason it would not be allowed.

This sounds logical to me

i cant see any reason why you cant chop your wagon ect ... you are all talking about keeping it cheap but you will pay big $$$$$$ for a ute cab .

i wouldnt run a full bodied truck in a winch comp , OBC you would be unlucky to stratch the truck , so looks like i will stick to cheque book racing as i have already spend over MY $10,000

tuf355 wrote:also i dont think all the people wanting to compete in there daily driver is what this is about

thats what I wanted to know.. I was going to promote this to the our club, as theres blokes with cars, that like a challenge but arent loaded so no real point..

this way you have just shut out dozens of people who would compete, but dont have the spare thousands to buy a second car but might scrape by on their daily... second car is $4-5k, then extra rego etc just to start, then spend the extra $7-10k... yes its cheaper than chq book shit, which was always going to happen with OBC etc - it happens in 99.9% of uncontrolled class racing... it will suit some but I think numbers could be easily doubled the other way.

I like the idea of this class but think that max tyre size should be 33" and either no lockers or just a rear locker of any kind in case ppl already ahve the factory unit.
For ppl like me who only have a rear lsd i would not like to have to shell out for front and rear lockers. I would even be tempted just to shim up the lsd and and not bother with the rear.

Anyway thats my 2c


Jimmy

It doesnt look like people will be happy untill there is a class that is just for bog stock vehicles. With no lift, no lockers and no mods allowed at all. Just so they dont have to spend any money to compete. I would laugh if i came to watch this as these vehicles would do so much damage to themselves while going around the same course as the other classes that at the end of the day it would end up very expensive.
You have to push a vehicle so much harder to compete than if you had lockers.
The big thing with the GQ class proposed is that the vehicle will basically be a one off cost. Once you have built the vehicle you dont need to spend any more money unless you break something or buy new tires. Unlike the other classes where you have to upgrade mods every year to try and stay at the top of the field. I couldnt think of anything further from cheque book racing as this GQ class will be if it goes ahead

yeah a great idea mate my truck will comply easily but you need to work in the efi models and turbo diesel models because there are so many of these about as GQs werent just limited to naturally aspirated models only

bennybigballs wrote:yeah a great idea mate my truck will comply easily but you need to work in the efi models and turbo diesel models because there are so many of these about as GQs werent just limited to naturally aspirated models only

the only factory turboed GQ was the 2.8. the 4.2 was never released in oz with a hair dryer.

Might as well call this the "Carby Patrol series". A standard na diesel is no where near a carby Patrol in performance. I have a diesel and my old man a Petrol and there is a marked difference. I would believe a majority of the diesels out there have been turbo'd (not as many would have been intercooled. I would be one of the first to sign up to this but my diesel is turbo'd (not intercooled). I know you have made a decision on this matter and thats fine, just my 2 cents.

Your not going to be able to put semi challenging tracks in that are enjoyable watch with bog stock vehicles, fun to drive but not fun to watch.... not fun to watch = small crowds = sponsers pulling out,

It might pay to "refine" your rules on page 1 cause of all the confusion and suggestions it makes it a lil hard to work out whats what.

Maybe a minimim sill/bonnet height rather than roof height, be a lil easier to measure. It will allow people to mix and match 2"+2" or 4"spring or whatever you decide and will also make for some thinking of which combination suits best, all depending on sponsors of course.

Simon

Jimbo wrote:I like the idea of this class but think that max tyre size should be 33" and either no lockers or just a rear locker of any kind in case ppl already ahve the factory unit.

No-one is saying you have to have front and rear lockers are they?

They way i understood it was that these were the limiting rules, not the must have rules (with the exception of a control tyre) Correct me if i'm wrong Darren or Pete but as i understand you can have a stock patrol with no lift and no lockers if you want?