Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Either those pics dont do it justice or Im missing something as the front end of that ute didnt look like it was "flexing" very well to me.

The rear looks great with the wheel tucked up nicely in the guard and huge clearance on the other side.

Just my opinion, would be nice to see a close pic of the arm at work so we can see differance in bolt hole locations etc. from std.

Just my opinion.

Dazza

azzad wrote:Either those pics dont do it justice or Im missing something as the front end of that ute didnt look like it was "flexing" very well to me.

The rear looks great with the wheel tucked up nicely in the guard and huge clearance on the other side.

Just my opinion, would be nice to see a close pic of the arm at work so we can see differance in bolt hole locations etc. from std.

Just my opinion.

Dazza

I hope this answers your questions!!! shocks are the limiting factor now!! not the arms!!! Basically anyone running ~2-3" lifted shocks will get every bit of flex out of standard geometry (all brands are the same!! - as stock nissan ones) but if you have 3" or more (the more the better) you will see huge improvements!!! (no BS!!! or mine is the same crap) Eg someone with a body lift that has room for loooooong shocks will get great flex. (or cut the inner gaurds like everyone else does!!)

Any word on the standard height arm?

its hard to see from these crap photos, but this is my front end flex maxed out, on a standard front end, just 4" king springs and procomps plenty long enough, no swaybar
http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/ ... ol%20flex/

gives you a rough idea of the difference....

cheers, andrew

1MadEngineer

Thanks
I completely believe these things are good and would like one. Just didnt think the pics did it justice thats all.

love ke70
any suspension upgrade is going to be way better than stock.

Dazza

SuperiorEngineering wrote:We have just drawn up the 3 inch and standard arms to suit the lower lifts and the drop boxes.
For the guys who already have other brand arms you will be able to purchase the passenger side arm only in std,3,4.5 and 6.7 inch lifts, and if you have drop boxes you can fit the standard height arms.
Front Bushes are not tearing like the normal style drop radius arms as the rear pins max out in the steel boss and stop flex before the front bushes are to stressed.
In my GQ i was tearing bushes with normal dropped radius arms every few comps, Since changing to the new arms, the bushes have not been tearing.
The rear pin bushes will be the first to wear out as they take all the impact which is no different if you use aftermarket arms or factory arms.
The handling is no different from any other drop radius arm on the market except they get more flex.
I will track down some pics of some trucks with them fitted, most of the arms sold now have not been fitted by us but other 4wd shops and the customers so we dont have a lot of images.
I have also posted on our website that we Gaurantee that if these arms do not flex better than your current arms ftted (any other brand on the market ) we will refund your money .

What type and what brand of bushes were you using in the comps?

Any updates on the 3" arms and long travel coil setup?

KIWI wrote:Any updates on the 3" arms and long travel coil setup?

Apologies for the delay everyone. Both Superior and Dobinsons have been snowed under. (This is going to be me soon) I will be receiving the Superior Super Flex Drop Arms next week and the Dobinsons coils at the end of next week. I already have the high flex rear coils but just waiting for the fronts. These won’t be for sale until after testing.

There is a lot of testing to do because I want to test the usual 3” lift coils with and without the Arms on the travel ramp, then the same for the high flex coils, with and without the arms. I want to compare how much body roll you get between all the set ups and if there is any difference in ride height. I will be taking photos to demonstrate the differences etc.

I would like to repeat that you still get massive flex on your current coils with these arms so there is no need to rush out and get flexy coils and longer shocks.

Is there anything else that people want for me to test?

Also if there is someone who could spare a few days to help with this testing it would be appreciated. You would spend half the time changing over coils and drop arms. It is always good to get a 2nd unbiased opinion. I will supply the vehicle. I am in Loganholme, QLD.

Shane

i wouldnt mind coming and helping for discounts

how is the load bearing on the flexy springs?
are they just a progressive spring so they stay captive for longer so you get more flex or whats the deal with them?

what will u be trying them on?

cheers, andrew

love ke70 wrote:i wouldnt mind coming and helping for discounts

how is the load bearing on the flexy springs?
are they just a progressive spring so they stay captive for longer so you get more flex or whats the deal with them?

what will u be trying them on?

cheers, andrew

Yes for decent discounts.
As we speak Dobinsons are rolling my front coils and there will be 2 different front coils. This is mainly so we can keep the vehicle level depending on what your accessories are front and rear.

I now have 3 different flexy rear springs for a 3" lift. 1 or 2 of them will be for load bearing and do have different amounts of flex. One 3" rear coil will give you same flex as a 6-7" lift. I haven't tried them yet. I have them sitting out of the box and I admire them every time I go past. Bring your loaded Patrol and you can test them yourself. This goes for anyone who wants to try them but they won't be available for sale until I get bulk amounts made up and I am happy that they sit at the right height.

Yes they are progressive.
I have a GU Patrol.
I will testing out flexy coils for a SWB also and for an 80 Series not that you Patrol people would care about that.

Anyway, I will try to keep this thead on topic so if anyone has more questions about the coils please send me an email.

I will post up the results of Superiors arms here in conjunction with the coils I have designed for these arms but I will start another thread once I have done some testing for those who have questions about the coils and I will link to that thread from here.

pm sent to love ke70

Cheers
Shane

Mudzuki wrote:Any word on the standard height arm?

Anything

Just a couple of pics from the BOAB rampday last week
[img][img]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh22 ... Medium.jpg[/img][/img]
[img][img]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh22 ... Medium.jpg[/img][/img]

Update!! Finally found a few minutes to do a bit more research and design work on the nissan front end. (damn its easy when you have all the available shock spring combos on the shelf to measure!! thanks Mick!)

Design delimma!! as we knew the arms can easily take full advantage of 12" travel shocks before the rear arm pins become a drama!! which with the longest travel nissan shock ATM are the ProComps @ 10.5" stroke and the Tough Dogs @ ~9.5-10" stroke are the limiting factors.

With the ever increasing demand for a good quality shock, not just a mass produced piece of $hit, we started looking at all of the best "Competition" Offroad Racing brands, what we found is that with a special mounting system we could used a 2 1/2" bore (Smoothy or remote reservoir) SwayAway with 12" of travel. These babies are AWESOME!!! the build quality is first class and are definately one of the best on the market!! Fully rebuildable and EVERY part can be ordered and replaced if damaged!!! They are soooo much better than even a FOX, the pistons are wider and the wear areas are twice as big and they have better and more seals. So over the next month or 2 we will be ordering a set of 12" Rem Res 2.5" shocks and a full valving kit. Then hopefully putting then on a shocky dyno to get a rough setup. Followed by a heap of actual vehicle tests, to finally get the ultimate in nissan front shock setups!!!! At least then mick will be able to provide the ultimate in shock and arm packages for the nissan guys!!

I will keep you posted on progress. (damn so much for me being a toyota guy!!)

1MadEngineer wrote:Update!! Finally found a few minutes to do a bit more research and design work on the nissan front end. (damn its easy when you have all the available shock spring combos on the shelf to measure!! thanks Mick!)

Design delimma!! as we knew the arms can easily take full advantage of 12" travel shocksbefore the rear arm pins become a drama!! which with the longest travel nissan shock ATM are the ProComps @ 10.5" stroke and the Tough Dogs @ ~9.5-10" stroke are the limiting factors.

With the ever increasing demand for a good quality shock, not just a mass produced piece of $hit, we started looking at all of the best "Competition" Offroad Racing brands, what we found is that with a special mounting system we could used a 2 1/2" bore (Smoothy or remote reservoir) SwayAway with 12" of travel. These babies are AWESOME!!! the build quality is first class and are definately one of the best on the market!! Fully rebuildable and EVERY part can be ordered and replaced if damaged!!! They are soooo much better than even a FOX, the pistons are wider and the wear areas are twice as big and they have better and more seals. So over the next month or 2 we will be ordering a set of 12" Rem Res 2.5" shocks and a full valving kit. Then hopefully putting then on a shocky dyno to get a rough setup. Followed by a heap of actual vehicle tests, to finally get the ultimate in nissan front shock setups!!!! At least then mick will be able to provide the ultimate in shock and arm packages for the nissan guys!!

I will keep you posted on progress. (damn so much for me being a toyota guy!!)

hope to see you guys come up with something to alter the limit of the chassis mount pin. but keeping a good eye on these arms. they seem to be good and will get a set for my truck one day.

PAUL

We have a 700mm long 12" stroke unit we use for 80 and GQ/GU as well as using Fox to suit in longer applications as well for more flex. These shocks also run 15-25% stiffer comp and rebound than the same brands "normal" shocks, for heavier/harder applications.

We have been using Dobinsons to roll our super slinky coils for 3" lift for over 2 years now, to match the longer shocks. We have tested these coils and shocks on the canning, tanami, simpson, madigan line, nullabor [dirt, not road] Hay River, etc, over the last 3 years also.

We have also been using up to 14" stroke 1 m long Fox rear shocks, though 12" stroke 735mm rears are the "norm" for our wagon fit ups, using Superior boxes, unless we cut the floor, box them, and shorten the drawers in the rear for the shopcks to come up through.

Below pic is my old truck with 14" rear Fox triple bypass 980mm long, and 10" stroke fronts which are 760mm long, our slinky coils, and standard front arms on superior boxes.

The ramp is 4'6" [1250mm]25 deg, so front wheel to the ramp is 1000 RTI.

ats4x4dotcom wrote:We have a 700mm long 12" stroke unit we use for 80 and GQ/GU as well as using Fox to suit in longer applications as well for more flex. These shocks also run 15-25% stiffer comp and rebound than the same brands "normal" shocks, for heavier/harder applications.

We have been using Dobinsons to roll our super slinky coils for 3" lift for over 2 years now, to match the longer shocks. We have tested these coils and shocks on the canning, tanami, simpson, madigan line, nullabor [dirt, not road] Hay River, etc, over the last 3 years also.

We have also been using up to 14" stroke 1 m long Fox rear shocks, though 12" stroke 735mm rears are the "norm" for our wagon fit ups, using Superior boxes, unless we cut the floor, box them, and shorten the drawers in the rear for the shopcks to come up through.

Below pic is my old truck with 14" rear Fox triple bypass 980mm long, and 10" stroke fronts which are 760mm long, our slinky coils, and standard front arms on superior boxes.

The ramp is 4'6" [1250mm]25 deg, so front wheel to the ramp is 1000 RTI.

What castor bushes are you using??

4WD Stuff wrote:

What castor bushes are you using??[/quote]

Well, we have found the better quality ones which have a steel sleeve through the centre, that you press in afterward work best for flex, they arent offset, as the drop boxes are what gives the castor correction, and keeps the front arms as close to horizontal as possible.

These have lasted most of the trips I have specified above in testing with no adverse wear.

ats4x4dotcom wrote:

ats4x4dotcom wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote:

What castor bushes are you using??

Well, we have found the better quality ones which have a steel sleeve through the centre, that you press in afterward work best for flex, they arent offset, as the drop boxes are what gives the castor correction, and keeps the front arms as close to horizontal as possible.

These have lasted most of the trips I have specified above in testing with no adverse wear.

If it is the bushes I am thinking of then you have done well for them to last most of the trips. Nothing is perfect but I have longevity concerns for those bushes and now prefer to use genuine Nissan bushes, even though you get less flex as a result. For the trips that you do it would be a pain if they went in the middle of nowhere. However the flex you get out of them is impressive. Having said that, I got just as much flex out of the front of my Rangie however the castor bushes were long in the tooth.

Shane

4WD Stuff wrote:

ats4x4dotcom wrote:

ats4x4dotcom wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote:

What castor bushes are you using??

Well, we have found the better quality ones which have a steel sleeve through the centre, that you press in afterward work best for flex, they arent offset, as the drop boxes are what gives the castor correction, and keeps the front arms as close to horizontal as possible.

These have lasted most of the trips I have specified above in testing with no adverse wear.

If it is the bushes I am thinking of then you have done well for them to last most of the trips. Nothing is perfect but I have longevity concerns for those bushes and now prefer to use genuine Nissan bushes, even though you get less flex as a result. For the trips that you do it would be a pain if they went in the middle of nowhere. However the flex you get out of them is impressive. Having said that, I got just as much flex out of the front of my Rangie however the castor bushes were long in the tooth.

Shane

Actually, I went with those bushes, as I can replace them easily with some hand tools, though they werent an issue on wear and lasted twice as many km as the factory nissan bushes lasted.

We fitted them to try our theory first off, which worked, so them we durability tested them, and they lasted well. They are made in that way by more than one company, and there are good and bad in them, better to get the good ones.

We had to make heavy duty panhard rod washer for the amount of flex we were getting, as they panhard rod would deform the bush and bend the steel washers, popping the panhard rods off completely sometimes.

We also had no where near enough travel out of the nissan tie rods and they would bind before full droop was realised.

yeah my tie rods bind before my front maxes out:s kinda scary imagine if the ball popped out of it

did u guys find a decent solution to this?

your worried about tierods binding. flynns hilux uses standard patrol steering, no mods and it maxes out an 18 inch fox shock. how are you having that much trouble with tierod ends???? just curious not having a dig or being rude or anything.

no idea perhapse flynns steering box is lower or on a better angle than it would with a 5 inch lift on a gq chassis,
i know of a few other gq's that have had the same issue all running drop boxes and 680ish mm shocks

The over the rod later type ones are worse for flex than the male threaded ones as well.

High mis heims with cro moly steering arms are the fix.

I have done some testing so I thought I better share my findings. Many thanks to Adam and Marcus who helped with the testing of the Superflex arms and my 3” lift flex coils.

Before we fitted the Superflex arms we did some ramp testing with my 3” lift high flex coils. I also went up the ramp with a 2” lift with sway bars on which was an eye opener of just how little flex you get. I did all this with open centres because the locker wasn’t working.

When driving forwards up the 30 degree ramp when the front was unloaded we found that the Superflex arms didn’t improve flex.

When reversing up the ramp with the front now loaded up, we found that we were able to drive about another foot up the ramp. Adam did some measuring and we found that we achieved full front flex out of 24.5” shocks. The usual front shocks that I would send out with a 3” lift are 22.5”.

I didn’t realise till later but the arms were hitting the sway bar mount on compression which stopped the wheel going any further into the guard so we could have got more front flex but it is unclear how much more. Full flex out of 5” lift shocks on a 3” lift was already impressive.

I did take some pics of my GU which I have just put up on my web site at https://www.suspensionstuff.com.au/shop ... =137_41_75
Now that I have learned how to put pics up on my web site, I would appreciate some pics off those who have bought suspension off me. My GU is pretty lame.

All the road testing so far has been done with Tough Dog shocks and nobody has been able to tell any difference between the Superflex arms and Nissan arms so I decided to fit Procomp shocks which are quite soft in comparison. Adam and I went for a before and after drive with no sway bars. For nearly all the driving we could not tell the difference. On a tight off camber corner we think that the GU leaned a bit more with the Superflex arms. Someone else will have to do further testing to verify this.

The testing wasn’t about outright flexing but comparisons. There are other things we could do to improve suspension travel such as drop out cones and tying in coils. If you wanted more flex out of the Superflex arms you just have to fit softer bushes. I feel that the softer bushes that normally wear out fast would actually last a long time in the Superflex arms because of the reduced bush flex and therefore stress.

For those who already have drop boxes, the standard arms that Superior have (Not tested yet) will be the best setup in my opinion. It will allow the arms to drop further.

I personally think that a good setup for the 3” lift would be to match my flex coils with the Superflex arms with EFS Extreme shocks. The EFS Extreme shocks are 590mm extended up front and 750mm extended on the rear. For those who don’t know, normal 3” lift shocks are 555mm up front and 695mm in the rear.

If someone wanted to, you could easily get more flex then my coils but I have tried to find a balance. I have soft ride flex coils and heavy duty flex coils for those who like to load her up.

I never got round to testing the 4-5” lift superflex arms or my 4-5" lift high flex coils. Somebody else can do that. Coupled with high flex 4-5” coils I send out 32” rear shocks. The front shocks depend on whether people want to mod shock towers or not. I would be putting in 36” shocks or longer on the rear and raising the top shock mount and or tying in my coils. I would be doing the same on the front. (Tough Dogs would be the better option, EFS Extremes are not long enough on the rear, Procomp shocks may be a bit soft but a lot of people still prefer them, usually the fact that Procomps are half the price helps.)

There is a very limited number of 3” lift Superflex arms available now. I have 1 set and I think Superior have 1 set. My set has a few minor scratches. I don't know if Superior are going to do any testing with their set.

Cheers
Shane

4WD STUFF the link doesn't work for the pic, it says Product not found!

https://www.suspensionstuff.com.au/shop ... cts_id=975

Try this one.

Cheers. I have changed the link in my previous post.

Shane

Try this

https://www.suspensionstuff.com.au/shop ... 79c3789d25

doh! beat me to it whilst typing and checking it out

4WD Stuff wrote: When driving forwards up the 30 degree ramp when the front was unloaded we found that the Superflex arms didn’t improve flex.

When reversing up the ramp with the front now loaded up, we found that we were able to drive about another foot up the ramp.

I am confused. Whats the point of running these arms if they don't work when driving forwards.

SIM79 wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote: When driving forwards up the 30 degree ramp when the front was unloaded we found that the Superflex arms didn’t improve flex.

When reversing up the ramp with the front now loaded up, we found that we were able to drive about another foot up the ramp.

I am confused. Whats the point of running these arms if they don't work when driving forwards.

They do work when going forward but not up a 30 degree ramp. There are plenty of situations where you want flex when you are not near vertical. Having said that, I didn't realise at the time that they were hitting on my sway bar link pin bracket. (You can either un bolt the bracket or fit adjustable pan hard rods to even things up to fix this prob). I really don't know what affect this had.

When driving that steep there is little pressure put on the bushes for them to flex. If you had softer bushes obviously you would get a lot more flex.

The customers who have purchased them have raved about them so they mustn't be that bad.

I am sure I would be selling a lot more Superflex arms if it wasn't for my review but I say it as I see it. It is the same for all the products I sell.

CONCLUSION
If you are planning on getting some drop arms then the Superflex arms are a massive impovement and you won't be dissapointed.

If you don't care for the extra flex then Drop boxes are the way to go.

It usually comes down to how much money you want to spend on your truck.

Shane

Ok. Are the standard lift, single flex arms available yet?