Chinese vs ARB Locker video

[brad-chevlux]

i would't be touring in aus with someone who runs a china locker! imagine it failed on the canning or something! nice $300 saving that just ruined your trip.


seriously.... i cant understand why people are so desperate to save a few hundred bucks on a product that is obviously inferior when they prob spend the difference over a few months on crap like smokes, clubs/pubs, buying smoko, tatoo's, whatever.

that statement is a bit to general, even so. why is it so wrong that people want to spend money on other things?

i could't care what people spend thier money on... i'm just saying why not spend the extra (which is not really that much when you're talking mods to trucks) and get the real deal which is proven and not an unknown.
everything chinese i've dealt with normally does the job almost or just as good but doesn't last. then i end up buying the proper product anyway so now i wont go near any chinese cheap copies if i have an option of buying better quality products.

i think we've been here before on the winch subject which you and i both know our views are very different.

if i'm going to part with hard earned i'd rather buy once and have reliability. this goes from cars and tools to anything i buy.



plus i'd rather keep my money circulating in my country.

the cost of having arb or tjm lockers fitted is still alot of money when it's twice what you earn in a week.

................

i don't understand, whats the need to cry?

[Dozoor]

Umm what?
Do you understand what torque is and what a ft-lb is?

Do you understand leverage ?

why don't you answer Kiwi's question first?

The Question is the answer , no ?

A Pound of Weight Applied at a foot of Leverage.

All the Equations applied to every thing in four wheel drives work Great , until the point where the tire meets the ground.
Engineers have equations for different size tires,widths, diameters, radials, crossplys, friction, cohesion, blah blah .
But there is no equation for the variation in traction available to an aired down 35 ,that has a varying footprint depending on the weight applied,the air pressure.The fact within 12" of distance could be working a surface like granite with more traction then bitumen, or smooth stone like lino covered in shampoo.

Im glad theres alternate worlds where axles and diffs carn,t break.
makes me feel fuzzy inside.

[YankeeDave]

plain and simple support aussie manufacturing not the other brands

better aftermarket support and a shop you can walk into and talk about any dramas, not over email or international phone calls


buy ARB or TJM and leave it at that.

[-Scott-]

The Question is the answer , no ?

A Pound of Weight Applied at a foot of Leverage.

All the Equations applied to every thing in four wheel drives work Great , until the point where the tire meets the ground.
Engineers have equations for different size tires,widths, diameters, radials, crossplys, friction, cohesion, blah blah .
But there is no equation for the variation in traction available to an aired down 35 ,that has a varying footprint depending on the weight applied,the air pressure.The fact within 12" of distance could be working a surface like granite with more traction then bitumen, or smooth stone like lino covered in shampoo.

Footprint size is irrelevant. The only two variables (presuming a flat surface) are weight (well, force normal to the surface) and friction coefficient. Larger area = less ground pressure, but total force remains the same.

In the real world, with surface irregularities and other unknowns, I believe the forces required to break traction can easily exceed those theoretical figures being discussed here - but I doubt the "real world" effects would be enough to increase traction torque figures to the levels required to break things.

Shock loads are another story.

[KiwiBacon]

Umm what?
Do you understand what torque is and what a ft-lb is?

Do you understand leverage ?

why don't you answer Kiwi's question first?

The Question is the answer , no ?

A Pound of Weight Applied at a foot of Leverage.

Excellent.
Now you've got that sorted, you can see why the ft-lbs measured by the test rig are exactly the same size as the ft-lbs experienced by your axle.

There is no reason or need to divide by 3 or 5 or any other number. A ft-lb is a ft-lb.
A wheel that only has enough traction to use 3000 ft-lbs will not break an axle or locker than can take 9000 ft-lbs of torque.

Shock loads and bringing a rapidly spinning wheel back down to earth are of course an excellent way to break anything.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

and oh yeah... my arb air lockers come with umm cool switches that get real hot :shock:

ARB saves 2.4c ea by not using LED's. Cheapskates.

Paul

[joeblow]

and oh yeah... my arb air lockers come with umm cool switches that get real hot

ARB saves 2.4c ea by not using LED's. Cheapskates.

Paul

haha........thats funny comming from you


rivet boy

[jessie928]

and oh yeah... my arb air lockers come with umm cool switches that get real hot

ARB saves 2.4c ea by not using LED's. Cheapskates.

Paul

it is a joke how hot those switches get
i reakon you could cook an egg on a bunch of them EASY.

Jes

[joeblow]

and normal dashboard globes are any different because?.........



this threads turning funny

[Weiner]

I have never had a problem with ARB seals or the Switches getting hot?

[chimpboy]

plain and simple support aussie manufacturing not the other brands

better aftermarket support and a shop you can walk into and talk about any dramas, not over email or international phone calls


buy ARB or TJM and leave it at that.

I have to be honest, just about every time I have ever walked into an ARB or TJM store I have walked out again pretty fast. I feel that pretty much every single thing they sell ranges from somewhat overpriced to drastically overpriced. It's kind of like buying parts from dealers.

But then some people will only buy parts from dealers, so it's a matter of choice I guess. For me it's more case-by-case; I'll try to satisfy myself as to whether the non-genuine part is just as good and if it is I'll be careful with my money.

What makes and models do these Chinese lockers come for anyway? eg I would worry more about component strength with a 3 ton Patrol than with a 1 ton Sierra.

[GRIMACE]

im gonna buy ten!

they are soo orsum!

[Petes]

But you will just store them in your shed That'd probably never break them

[Jeeps]

it is a joke how hot those switches get
i reakon you could cook an egg on a bunch of them EASY.

Jes

You say it like it's a bad thing! They help keep the cab toasty warm in winter once again arb comes out on top

[KiwiBacon]

What makes and models do these Chinese lockers come for anyway? eg I would worry more about component strength with a 3 ton Patrol than with a 1 ton Sierra.

I know they don't have a landrover model.
As long as the diff sizing is relative then a 3 ton whale shouldn't be any more of a liability than a 1 ton bellarina.

[chimpboy]

What makes and models do these Chinese lockers come for anyway? eg I would worry more about component strength with a 3 ton Patrol than with a 1 ton Sierra.

I know they don't have a landrover model.
As long as the diff sizing is relative then a 3 ton whale shouldn't be any more of a liability than a 1 ton bellarina.

What about stuff like individual teeth, that are the same size regardless of the diff size, but that are going to cop a much bigger whack of instantaneous stress with a bigger vehicle than a small one?

[KiwiBacon]

What about stuff like individual teeth, that are the same size regardless of the diff size, but that are going to cop a much bigger whack of instantaneous stress with a bigger vehicle than a small one?

I've never compared a suzuki and patrol locker side by side, but you'd expect each to be a similar size to the diff centre it was replacing. So not only bigger teeth in the bigger diff but also at a bigger radius.
If the teeth weren't bigger, they should be wider or simply have more in contact.

[chimpboy]

What about stuff like individual teeth, that are the same size regardless of the diff size, but that are going to cop a much bigger whack of instantaneous stress with a bigger vehicle than a small one?

I've never compared a suzuki and patrol locker side by side, but you'd expect each to be a similar size to the diff centre it was replacing. So not only bigger teeth in the bigger diff but also at a bigger radius.

Thanks - btw it was a genuine question not a disagreement.

[KiwiBacon]

Thanks - btw it was a genuine question not a disagreement.

It was a good question.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

What about stuff like individual teeth, that are the same size regardless of the diff size, but that are going to cop a much bigger whack of instantaneous stress with a bigger vehicle than a small one?

I've never compared a suzuki and patrol locker side by side, but you'd expect each to be a similar size to the diff centre it was replacing. So not only bigger teeth in the bigger diff but also at a bigger radius.
If the teeth weren't bigger, they should be wider or simply have more in contact.

Many ARB locker parts are interchangeable between models. I thought there was only 3 "sizes" with specific machining to make the model.
That may not be up to date however.

Paul

[joeblow]

What makes and models do these Chinese lockers come for anyway? eg I would worry more about component strength with a 3 ton Patrol than with a 1 ton Sierra.

I know they don't have a landrover model.
As long as the diff sizing is relative then a 3 ton whale shouldn't be any more of a liability than a 1 ton bellarina.

What about stuff like individual teeth, that are the same size regardless of the diff size, but that are going to cop a much bigger whack of instantaneous stress with a bigger vehicle than a small one?

i love what appears to be brass thrust washers!..............

[ISUZUROVER]

Thanks - btw it was a genuine question not a disagreement.

It was a good question.

Indeed, a very good question.

This is a picture of a Dana 60 ARB side gear next to a Dana 35 ARB side gear:

Dana 60s are fitted to:
F250s, Defender rear, OKA front, etc, etc (Nissan patrol H260 rear would be about the same size)

Dana 35s are fitted to Jeep wranglers? And similar size vehicles. Rover, Hilux etc side gears are probably around the same size.

Suzuki would be smaller again I am sure.

And some OEM studd (D60 and D70 spider and side gears)

[nastytroll]

ARB doesn't supply parts for some of the old lockers.

I've seen them shear in half, score seals and fail in many ways.

Yeah - ARB is perfect....

how old are the old lockers you're talking about?

AFAIK parts are not aailable for my airlockers that I bought midway 2002.
I don't think spares are available for the girls airlocker either bought in 2004.

Also I think ARB have changed their design 3 or for times since.

[Weiner]

I am not to sure how old the lockers in my car are but one of them needed a heap of new bits and pieces and got parts for them.

They would be at least 8 years old

[Dozoor]

Excellent.
Now you've got that sorted, you can see why the ft-lbs measured by the test rig are exactly the same size as the ft-lbs experienced by your axle.

Exactly, then from the axle we move to the piont of adhesion,
working with a 24" diameter tire its correct, inlarge the diameter to a 36" you now have 50% less torque available at the piont of adhesion your figure mentioned below now becomes a 50% larger force required to move the tire.
Agree ?

There is no reason or need to divide by 3 or 5 or any other number. A ft-lb is a ft-lb.
Until you add Gearing-leverage=tire radius.

A wheel that only has enough traction to use 3000 ft-lbs will not break an axle or locker than can take 9000 ft-lbs of torque.


Shock loads and bringing a rapidly spinning wheel back down to earth are of course an excellent way to break anything.

Footprint size is irrelevant. The only two variables (presuming a flat surface) are weight (well, force normal to the surface) and friction coefficient. Larger area = less ground pressure, but total force remains the same.

Don't bother airing down then ?

In the real world, with surface irregularities and other unknowns, I believe the forces required to break traction can easily exceed those theoretical figures being discussed here - but I doubt the "real world" effects would be enough to increase traction torque figures to the levels required to break things.

Shock loads are another story.

Your right there scott , to many variables to create an acurate equation .






Larry

[KiwiBacon]

Excellent.
Now you've got that sorted, you can see why the ft-lbs measured by the test rig are exactly the same size as the ft-lbs experienced by your axle.

Exactly, then from the axle we move to the piont of adhesion,
working with a 24" diameter tire its correct, inlarge the diameter to a 36" you now have 50% less torque available at the piont of adhesion your figure mentioned below now becomes a 50% larger force required to move the tire.
Agree ?

No.
I had already used the wheel radius (I stated the overall diameters) to calculate the axle torques I listed.

If you understood the units and the way they were used it is quite clear.
Follow this example (again) and it should be clear.

A 33" wheel with 1000kg downforce and traction of 0.7.
This wheel can generate a maximum traction force in this situation of 700kg (6,867N).

The torque required to make this wheel lose traction is that force multiplied by the wheel radius.
Radius = 16.5 inches = 0.419m
Torque = force x radius
= 6867 x 0.419
= 2877 Nm

2877Nm is 2122 ft-lbs.

You can increase your gearing as much as you like, but you can't apply more torque than the wheel has traction (apart from the small amount used to accelerate it of course)

[Micka]

Can we please make this thread a sticky cause there is some funny, pathetic, idiotic shit contained in these 5 pages?

Who wouldn't want a cheap, totally inferior locker that can't outlast a standard axel?

Me.

[KiwiBacon]

Can we please make this thread a sticky cause there is some funny, pathetic, idiotic shit contained in these 5 pages?

Who wouldn't want a cheap, totally inferior locker that can't outlast a standard axel?

Me.

Did you not watch the video?
The cheap locker did outlast the axle they tested it with, check out the twisted splines.

That axle is toast, yes the locker broke too but it killed the axle first.

[brad-chevlux]

Can we please make this thread a sticky cause there is some funny, pathetic, idiotic shit contained in these 5 pages?

Who wouldn't want a cheap, totally inferior locker that can't outlast a standard axel?

Me.

some one that
A: can't afford the over priced ARB or TJM product.
B: doesn't drive hard enough to twist an axle. there for, will not put enough load on the china locker to break it.
C: is willing to give the cheaper option a chance.
D: doesn't need a service life of 5years plus.


You do need to ask though, why did arb not test it's own locker to destruction with a stonger axle. is the margin of strength that close?

[Micka]

Can we please make this thread a sticky cause there is some funny, pathetic, idiotic shit contained in these 5 pages?

Who wouldn't want a cheap, totally inferior locker that can't outlast a standard axel?

Me.

some one that
A: can't afford the over priced ARB or TJM product.
B: doesn't drive hard enough to twist an axle. there for, will not put enough load on the china locker to break it.
C: is willing to give the cheaper option a chance.
D: doesn't need a service life of 5years plus.


You do need to ask though, why did arb not test it's own locker to destruction with a stonger axle. is the margin of strength that close?

What makes you think that they did not test it to failure during the design and engineering of it?

I'm not sure why the conspiracy theory needs to be raised here. The ARB locker has been around for a few decades now...let me repeat.. A FEW DECADES. They are the most common locker in TUFF TRUCK. They were the most common locker in WE Rock Australia. They are exceptionally common in the States in WE Rock, King of the Hammers, Rock Racing. In these 3 examples the vast and overwhelming majority of competitors use aftermakret axels in combination with ARB lockers and the ARBs rarely fail. I have seen Longfield 30 spline CVs and axels break and the ARB did not.