Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Cheers, hulsty. What have you got on yours? Grunter stage 1?

He quoted me on a "kit" anyone know what comes in it? I've asked him via email and Pm but as I've found out, hes a busy man!!

I have faith in this man, but still haven't seen any Dyno screens comparing the gturbo to competitors like stock and Garrett. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Not sure what mine is, it is one of his earliest ones that he started selling, been on my car nearly 1.5 years now.

Heaps of dyno charts around, few on this site and lots more and info on ih8mud. Graeme posted up a good one comparing a garret to his, but I cant find it. Here are some links.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24- ... hread.html

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... 7#p2056557

So after having had a bit of time to do some mileage with the new Gturbo i can offer some feedback.

Car and spec previously

Landcruiser 75 series
1998 1HZ, 120xxxkm when fitted to car (along with turbo), has done about 60xxx km since then.
Turbo from petrol 7MG-TE motor (CT-26)
VDO EGT guage with sensor pre-turbo in the manifold
Aftermarket VDO guage for the water temps
Fuel screw wound out to the point where i had max EGT's 570 degrees on WOT and/or high load conditions
35" tyres on diffs with 4.56 gears to bring it back to standard
Boost controller/bleed valve
PWR water to air intercooler

Driving and performance characteristics of car previously

-Max boost 15psi at WOT. Boost seemed to be fairly linear with throttle position on the cruise and during accelleration. I.E. full 15 psi was usually only achieved at high rpms or at 100kmh. 570degrees on the exhaust during high load or lugging conditions.
-15.5l/km regardless of laden or unladen, city or highway.
-Engine temps would climb with sustained high loads. 400 degrees EGT seemed to be the tipping point where the engine makes more heat than the cooling system had capacity to lose.

Fitment

As the Gturbo is based on the CT26, fitment was VERY simple. I was able to directly swap the turbo unit and use all original plumbing except for the turbo cold side intake which was about 10mm diameter larger than previous. I touched no settings on the fuel pump so any consequent testing is at the same fuelling level as before. I removed the boost controller and ran Graeme's supplied wastegate. I fitted the turbo, tested for leaks and cranked over the engine with the fuel solenoid shut down to bring up oil pressure in the bearings. After that i started the engine and warmed it up for a test run.

Driving characteristics after fitment

Holy shit!

The boost characteristics of this compared to the old one are chalk and cheese. Boost starts climing way lower (think 1200 rpm) and climbs a LOT faster to max boost before the wastegate kicks in. Where before the boost climb rate would taper off as redline approached, this one has an almost vertical boost climb rate before snapping off level at 19.5lb boost. It's VERY obvious that the turbo is nowhere near it's efficiency limit as it's boosting hard and it's the wastegate that is limiting further pressure. I think it's capable of way more than it's currently at.

The seat of the pants feel is a lot different too. I have never babied this engine, and very regularly take it to redline (it LOVES it! ). Where before a standing start had a linear (albeit short) first gear accelleration, now i don't even have time to look at the boost guage to tell you where it's boosting from. If you boot it from standstill you literally have to change gears straight away as it's at redline before you know it.

Second gear it's still pulling harder but more reasonable.

Third and fourth feel similar to before but there's obviously still more boost.

At 100km/h on the flat with no wind it used to cruise at about 3-5psi (just holding 100, not accellerating or coasting). Now at 100 it's holding about 10psi.

My cooling issues havn't changed but i feel it's a lot more to do with the nature of the 75 series cooling system and not the internal characteristics of a boosted 1HZ

EGT's are about 40 degrees lower across the board.

In summary -

Pros - This is a MUCH more responsive than the stock CT26 with boost available lower, and seemingly not pushing the efficiency envelope as much as stock does
Cons - More expensive unit to acquire than stock for obvious reasons, so it lends itself to a new turbo fitment since people with an existing turbo may not personally be able to justify the upgrade (till they drive it at least)

As a side note for those with a 1HZ-T in a 75 series........

There's not a lot of room for cooling in these cars. Apart from just having ALL components of the cooling system in top notch there's a few extras to be considered.

I will be modifying the viscous fan clutch to lock up at a lower temperature. And i will also be fitting an external oil cooler for the engine oil to assist with removing heat from within the block. Since even 1HZ's have oil squirters that cool the piston crowns cooler oil will help with piston longevity as well as general cooling.

Since i have recently decided i need to keep the truck for towing, i MAY run a secondary radiator behind the headboard of the tray.

Id be losing the pwr and putting a decent intercooler on there. More torque, and higher afr's. maybe locate a boost compensator for better tuning.

The PWR was good for the slow speed/high load stuff i was doing in comps. But now that i'm looking at a lot of highway work then yes i''m considering a FMIC so i can use the rear (and the plumbing) for a second rad if i need it

I've just had a Plazmaman W2A intercooler custom made and Graeme will be getting my 80 for one of his kits as soon as that is fitted - I cannot wait

rockcrawler31 wrote:The PWR was good for the slow speed/high load stuff i was doing in comps. But now that i'm looking at a lot of highway work then yes i''m considering a FMIC so i can use the rear (and the plumbing) for a second rad if i need it

Na, just a bigger core.

coops62 wrote:I've just had a Plazmaman W2A intercooler custom made and Graeme will be getting my 80 for one of his kits as soon as that is fitted - I cannot wait

Geeez, I'd hate to ask how much a custom plasmaman cost you. and I'm sure you will love it. When is it going on?

TheBigBoy wrote:

coops62 wrote:I've just had a Plazmaman W2A intercooler custom made and Graeme will be getting my 80 for one of his kits as soon as that is fitted - I cannot wait

Geeez, I'd hate to ask how much a custom plasmaman cost you. and I'm sure you will love it. When is it going on?

hopefully the IC is home waiting for me , Graeme is ready to go ................................so as soon as possible

Still waiting on delivery of the intercooler (it's left Sydney) and I'm away at work so it's probably about amonth away from finished)

TheBigBoy wrote:

rockcrawler31 wrote:The PWR was good for the slow speed/high load stuff i was doing in comps. But now that i'm looking at a lot of highway work then yes i''m considering a FMIC so i can use the rear (and the plumbing) for a second rad if i need it

Na, just a bigger core.

You obviously havn't spent much time fiddling with 70 series trucks. It is physically impossible to fit a larger radiator and they are already have a four row rad. They simply suffer from not enough frontal area.

I ment getting away from the small barrel type core. Fit what ever size heat exchanger you can.

coops62 wrote:I've just had a Plazmaman W2A intercooler custom made and Graeme will be getting my 80 for one of his kits as soon as that is fitted - I cannot wait

Do some simple (and accurate as you can with details) tests before you change stuff, then the same tests after changes... then a writeup so the watching public can get some idea of improvements or otherwise of any mods...... before and after is where it's at

I have just fitted a Gturbo to my 80series 1HZ and LOVE IT!!!!

Going from a NA stocko 1HZ to Graemes turbo plus HUGE fmic and 3" zorst, its like a new truck. It really is unbelievable. The week before i fit the kit up i took a friends factory turbo 100s for a burn and was very disappointed. It had the 1HD-FTE with what looked like factory intercooler (tiny thing) and I thought shit... if my truck trucks ends up like this im gonna find Graeme and kill him. But his kit did everything he said it would and i nearly disgraced myself on the first drive

Boost response is like lightning
Power delivery is unreal

My only complaint with the whole fit up is my truck now overheats I dare say this is due to the 600mmx300mm front mount IC but its a negative nonetheless. Im keen for other ideas on Intercoolers as this truck is my daily and needs to run reliably.

As happy as i am with the product, im more impressed with the service...

I purchased the kit from Graeme on a Monday 17/12 1 week before xmas with a deadline of getting it to me by Friday 21/12 . He agreed to this and went about putting my kit together. He had my kit done and dusted that thursday delivered to AusPost for Express Delivery to Brisbane. Friday came - NO TURBO. Saturday - NO TURBO!!

This obviously pissed me off as I had a big camping trip planned for the first week of January and I needed the Turbo by then to fit it. I called Graeme on Saturday obviously not happy it hadnt arrived and asked what he was going to about it, he said he was on it. I called AusPost and gave them all the grief i could - No Turbo. Its Monday 23/12 and Im really stressing, I called Graeme again, this time a little more stern about what I wanted. He launched an Investigation with AusPost that day. After about 15 calls to AusPost and a phonebill bigger than paris hilton's, Graeme offered to send me ANOTHER TURBO. This was Friday 28/12. He didnt have a turbo built to my spec so he packed up a "Grunter" which was the next stage up from mine(good for 25psi @1900rpm) He packed it up whilst on the phone to me and drove it to the Airport HIMSELF (45min) that same afternoon!! I had my own company couriers recieve it for an overnight delivery to Brisbane. blah blah blah, the truck was done in time and I now giggle like a school girl when I drive

I cannot give Graeme a big enough wrap for the effort he put in. I dont know if hes found the original one he sent yet, but one thing is for sure, AusPost can suck my asshole. Through no fault of his own Graeme left himself Thousands of dollars out of pocket to please a customer. Well done sir.

A bit more on the gear,

I turned up my fuel by one full turn on the pump and this seems fine for me. I blocked the wastegate (15psi) just for fun and took it for a spin, it boosted to about 24psi by maybe 2800rpm!! if i pumped more fuel in it would definitely boost quicker but im fine with what its pumping out now
EGT's after One turn in are 450*C MAX PRE turbo! Thats about 250-300*C post turbo where most peoplle measure from. Super safe tune. Running around town it usually sits at 300 and Hardly registers on the gauge on the highway ~250*C

I ran a Front mount Intercooler as said and its questionable.. The pipes on the intake side (after the IC) are still quite hot to touch. For what its done to the efficency of my radiator im wondering if its worth having one.. Im looking into options of top mounts of even Water to Air Intercoolers. The front mount was cheap ($200) but cost about $500 to fit - all the hoses bends and clamps needed! Plus now i need to do something about my cooling issue.. Im wondering if it would just be easier to ditch it altogether and run another style. Whether that be Top Mount or W2A Im up for suggestions??

Luke

Luke one thing i did find about the w2a in its favour is that it's a heat bank the same as a battery is for electricity. You don't need a cooler rad the same size as a FMIC because the water and cooler rad will dissipate heat even when you're not on boost unlike a A2A. So the water will absorb heat during peak boost periods, and during coast it will still be dumping heat via the cooler rad. Ergo, the cooler doesn't need to be as big as an equivalently efficient A2A

Baja Burley wrote: The week before i fit the kit up i took a friends factory turbo 100s for a burn and was very disappointed. It had the 1HD-FTE with what looked like factory intercooler (tiny thing) and I thought shit... if my truck trucks ends up like this im gonna find Graeme and kill him. But his kit did everything he said it would and i nearly disgraced myself on the first drive

so your saying your turbo 1hz(105kw before turbo)) is now faster than a 1hdfte 100series(155kw)

are you sure your mates care didnt have an intercooler pipe popped off lol?

Shadow wrote:

Baja Burley wrote: The week before i fit the kit up i took a friends factory turbo 100s for a burn and was very disappointed. It had the 1HD-FTE with what looked like factory intercooler (tiny thing) and I thought shit... if my truck trucks ends up like this im gonna find Graeme and kill him. But his kit did everything he said it would and i nearly disgraced myself on the first drive

so your saying your turbo 1hz(105kw before turbo)) is now faster than a 1hdfte 100series(155kw)

are you sure your mates care didnt have an intercooler pipe popped off lol?

I am, yes.

Kudo's to Graeme for sending a 2nd Turbo, when it sounds like AUSPOST fucked up not him. Hope he's not out of pocket and he can sell the Turbo built to your specs.

Agree with Shadow, I thnk your mate needs to get his FTE on a dyno and see WTF is going on with it, although smooth always feels less fast.

SCANAS wrote: although smooth always feels less fast.

Smooth is not a word i would use to describe my 1HZ-T. "Thoroughly fucked off noisy sonofabitch" is probably a better description.

rockcrawler31 wrote:

SCANAS wrote: although smooth always feels less fast.

Smooth is not a word i would use to describe my 1HZ-T. "Thoroughly fucked off noisy sonofabitch" is probably a better description.

I was referring to the FTE 'feeling' slower than a 1HZ-T, you miniture horse felching mofo

The FTE definitely felt a lot smoother, however the HZ-T boosts a shittonne quicker and harder. Maybe it just sounds like its doing more because the zorst dumps in front of the rear wheel. Haha

Back to Intercooler chat, Zoltan on here has a wild water to air I would like to replicate. Can you chime in my good man?

Baja Burley wrote:I cannot give Graeme a big enough wrap for the effort he put in. I dont know if hes found the original one he sent yet, but one thing is for sure, AusPost can suck my asshole. Through no fault of his own Graeme left himself Thousands of dollars out of pocket to please a customer. Well done sir.

Yeah. Let's hope he doesn't encounter many more customers such as yourself or he won't be in business for long.

Who orders a product that still needs to be customised, assembled and packaged a week before Christmas to be delivered through Aust Post (everyone knows they struggle to keep up at that time of year) and when Aust Post drop the ball, holds the supplier to ransom? Graeme must be a saint for putting his commitments aside to rush a replacement product (at his cost) to the airport for you so you didn't have to miss your precious camping trip or God forbid have to drive it non turbo like Toyota intended.

I would have told you 3 words and they are not "I love you".

rockcrawler31 wrote:Luke one thing i did find about the w2a in its favour is that it's a heat bank the same as a battery is for electricity. You don't need a cooler rad the same size as a FMIC because the water and cooler rad will dissipate heat even when you're not on boost unlike a A2A. So the water will absorb heat during peak boost periods, and during coast it will still be dumping heat via the cooler rad. Ergo, the cooler doesn't need to be as big as an equivalently efficient A2A

The better the heat exchanger, the quicker the recovery and efficency. I'd be fitting what fits nicely (size wise).

RAY185 wrote:

Baja Burley wrote:I cannot give Graeme a big enough wrap for the effort he put in. I dont know if hes found the original one he sent yet, but one thing is for sure, AusPost can suck my asshole. Through no fault of his own Graeme left himself Thousands of dollars out of pocket to please a customer. Well done sir.

Yeah. Let's hope he doesn't encounter many more customers such as yourself or he won't be in business for long.

Who orders a product that still needs to be customised, assembled and packaged a week before Christmas to be delivered through Aust Post (everyone knows they struggle to keep up at that time of year) and when Aust Post drop the ball, holds the supplier to ransom? Graeme must be a saint for putting his commitments aside to rush a replacement product (at his cost) to the airport for you so you didn't have to miss your precious camping trip or God forbid have to drive it non turbo like Toyota intended.

I would have told you 3 words and they are not "I love you".

Please sir, correct me if I am wrong, but a paying customer with a tight deadline is better than no customer at all. Is it not?

I can be sure which of these options will send him broke...

Baja Burley wrote: a paying customer with a tight deadline is better than no customer at all.

Except when a paying customer is unreasonable and causes a supplier to make a loss to resolve the customer's dissatisfaction with a third party service whose performance - known to be unreliable at Christmas time - is obviously outside the supplier's control.

Your "squeaky wheel gets the grease" attitude as a consumer is not uncommon and is a pet peeve of mine which compelled me to share my sentiments. In any case, this is probably not the place to discuss it any further.

Good luck with your turbo and good on Graeme for going above and beyond.

Bit of a grave dig here guys I know... What I don't know is, wether there was a modified turbo available for the 1vdftv engines as mounted in the utes? And wether anyone on here has run one?
Regards johnsie

There is. And its a top of the range 1. Only 1 truck running it thus far.

Just put a chip on it mate won't need a turbo upgrade. Got a ire up here in town with a (chip I fitted and with 35" treads the owner loves doing BURNOUTS.) makes decent power on the rollers and stupid amounts if torque

old lux wrote:Just put a chip on it mate won't need a turbo upgrade. Got a ire up here in town with a (chip I fitted and with 35" treads the owner loves doing BURNOUTS.) makes decent power on the rollers and stupid amounts if torque

I beg to differ. Increase the air density via more boost/intercooling THEN use a chip to correct the fuel. Its hard to beat a good and efficient turbo.

Nothing wring with the factory turbo. It comes down to injection timing. Play with the pulsing And your on the money,