4.2 Injector pump for Big HP

[Wilba]

Ok we are all lyers and cheats.Can your wonderfullness go and bother someone else now.The question was asked about Pump,Turbo, Manifolds,Intercooler for a td42.Swaff has the quickest one that Mick has seen at the moment (not back in the day)and races it more than most and the motor by race motors is acceptable for reliabilty.Not only that we have one on the road and has been doing so and after checking speedo has done 42360kn and held together for two years so far, Fact.You qoute Heaths car,What specifically did YOU do to that car because as far as i can see heath could make anything go fast in my opinion without help.Did you do the lot or a part.It`s your time to be specific instead of skirting around the edges.Dazzle us with your wonderfullness!!!!billy












[quote="Northside 4x4"][quote="SuperiorEngineering"]Northside 4x4,
Just my opinion but you might be barking up the wrong tree, you havent actually acheived what these guys have, after all you were the first to say it cant be done.

Sometimes its better just to read posts and learn not critisize the guys who have acheived something better ( any way in my eyes they have achieved something better )

[quote="Northside 4x4

Because most of the rebuilds I do on TD42's (and that is alot) are normally broken around 20-30K after being modded to make 150-160kw atw.[/quote]

I didn't realise you guys now have a machine shop, i thought you were only retail and the dyno, i will have to come over and have a look one day.
Mick[/quote]

Maybe you have missed the point Superior. When we helped Heath build and tune his TD42 all those years ago, we did achieve what you are hoping for.
And it was at the forefront of diesel power and tech back in the day, nobody in Australia had a setup anywhere near it. And it provided us with a very good amount of hard data regarding the motor and what could be done.

So saying we haven't done it is kind of misleading, we have done it before anybody else. Its now an old and done setup that some companies are only just catching up on 6 years+ since we had it done and dusted.
The whole diesel community and Heath has since moved forward to better technology, instead of trying to flog a dead horse with the TD42, sure it can be done just copy what heath had 6 years ago and add on the 10% magic dyno results you get from most shops.

If TD42's still represented a good market share of engine modifications and breakthrough technology out there I would still be a big player in it. The fact is 99% of any modification that could be done to a TD42 has been done. Regardless of weather some companies such as Swaff want to portray them as 330hp instead of the likely 280-290hp they are really making is their decision. I class the 1% as Billet CNC head with overhead cam and 4V per cylinder.

So, best of luck and I really do hope to see you and your customer making the desired power level and having it reliable.
If not you know where a good shop is that can do the job properly and has made a reputation in fixing and rebuilding TD42's that other shops wreck.[/quote]

[Northside 4x4]

Yep I do remember what the topic started out as.
My first post pointed out that alot more work was needed than just a turbo/pump setup to achieve the power, letalone reliably.
That is what the discussion has turned into, with usefull info regarding fuel burn rates, intercooler efficiency etc... That will help the build along.

If your skins are thin enough to be getting cut by what I say, you probably shouldnt be on an internet forum.

I see more and more chinese turbo's actually lasting and making decent power these days. Would be interesting to see the boost curve vs rpm graph of the car.

[mickyd555]

didnt Heaths TD42 detonate??? I didnt think he re-built it after that. I could be wrong though...

[doe]

didnt Heaths TD42 detonate??? I didnt think he re-built it after that. I could be wrong though...

Most of the stuff Northside builds detonate some way or another.

[Northside 4x4]

Thats why he now has the duramax in it.

I would consider removing that post Doe.
A) ive seen you get a thread deleted for putting something similar up already.
B) As its your opinion and not based off any facts that you have listed, it doesnt really belong on a public forum.

[digsy]

So just so we're all clear Northside - you can make statements indicating that other companies on here are misleading their customers and floating dyno numbers - then stating that when the "other shops" motors break that you'll have to fix them properly ... But yet Doe gives your shop some flack and you put him on a warning...?


Isn't there a post about three up about thick skin or something to that effect and being on a Internet forum...

FORTUNATELY - TD42 technology has indeed forged ahead - and there's plenty more left as a number of smart cookies on this thread have indicated - I'm definitely looking forward to what these guys have lined up for the future.

[RD]

Yeah digs think some ones skin is now paper thin hahahahahahahaha ah

[doe]

Thats why he now has the duramax in it.

I would consider removing that post Doe.
A) ive seen you get a thread deleted for putting something similar up already.
B) As its your opinion and not based off any facts that you have listed, it doesnt really belong on a public forum.

I will not remove that post unless a moderator asks me too. The post Ive had deleted would that be the one were you were bagging another company, cause you my have too fill me in if thats not what you are talking about.

[sswaffie]

I found this on are's website , im not sure if it was the final combination of
Heath's vehicle . As you can see the 4.2 has come a long way in the fact of max
hp and the RPM . Remember we are reving ours to 5100rpm and are still
making 240hp at 4900 rpm . It looks to be fuel pump limited , it has taken
us quite some time to be able to get rate of injection and fuel deliveries at
high pump speeds

[hiy6o]

[digsy]

Shawn for us guys that are just trying to keep up with the tech on this thread - can us explain to us why the dyno graph on your bottom sheet is quite "shakey" for want of a better word?
Just I guess I assumed that the rpm with WOT would always ramp up reasonably smoothly - not like the lines on your bottom dyno sheet where it seems to "swing" 200rpm - or am I reading it wrong...?

Is this to do with a dyno setting? Or some sort of mapping?
Just you see dyno sheet printouts in performance car magazines etc and they all look like the top sheet with a smooth(ish) graph - is that due to the dyno putting some sort of buffer on it in Shootout mode so it looks nice?

Just I haven't had a real lot to do with dyno printouts etc.

Thanks
D.C

[fatassgq]

Im sorry about the inconsistant line on dyno graph my pizo is a bit over the
place causing the change in constant line , but it gives you a good enough
idea.

[Wilba]

"]Thats why he now has the duramax in it.(AND HES CHASING 1000 PLUS HP NOT 350HP)

I would consider removing that post Doe.
A) ive seen you get a thread deleted for putting something similar up already.( I CAN JUST IMAGINE NOTHING TO DO WHITH YOU I SPOSE )
B) As its your opinion and not based off any facts that you have listed, it doesnt really belong on a public forum.[/quote](WELL HOT DANG HAVE YOU NOT READ BACK THOUGH THIS POST? I`m sure you can do what you do quite well but you`ll find even your wonderfullness might learn somthing if u just read for a while not type.Still waiting on the actual jobs you did on heaths car if you want to keep knocking what we are doing because it`s relative if you think 300+ is not attainable without extras.

[Northside 4x4]

Digsy - As I have never directly named any shops for poor quality work I fail to see the connection between what I said and what Doe said?

Wilba - Ask Heath what we helped him with. Im sure he could give you a detailed list if thats what your asking.

Aside from that, Im not 'knocking' anyone. If the group at large thinks 300+HP is possible without the 'extra's' (not sure what you mean by that) but if you mean good intercooling, inlet manifold improvements etc.. Then by all means, I am here waiting for the results. I have seen and tuned enough big hp TD42's to know that intercooling, manifold design, and so on, is absolutely critical in making the power and to overlook it would be a big mistake.

Swaff - Im not trying to take anything away from the work you have done. From all accounts you have the quickest car out there on the circuit's. And technology has come ahead by a staggering amount especially with turbo's over the last 4-5 years.
Did you make 300hp with just a decent turbo and pump setup though? Or did it take a little bit more work than that? That is all I have been trying to say.

Heath would be the only one with the dyno graphs, as graphs are removed from the dyno more than about 4 years old I dont have them any longer sorry.

Back to tech and idea's on the OP's build yet or what?

[doe]

I have upset them now just been threatend with legal action in a PM.

[Northside 4x4]

So.. Back on topic yet?

Electronic 3 Port boost control. Quicker spoolup, getting it to hang on longer in the top. Anybody else use it on the TD's?

[doe]

I have passed on screenshots and the details of the post to my lawyer.
You should hear from him within 10 working days.

Unless you have hard evidence to backup what you have posted? In which case post that up to and I will forward it to him also.

Cheers
Northside


Sounds like you have the ball rolling if Im gunna here from him.

[Modified Toy]

Some good tech going on...

But to many business are involving them self in an online slugging match....this can not be good for business.

EVERY engine builder has a different idea usually no two agree, But swaffie must have a proven combination driver/engine that wins him races hp power would come into this but you need some relialability also.

To win a race you must first finish!

Sorry about the off topic

[peter ayers]

First things first.... There is no way you were the first to make 300hp Injector pump for big Hp...Firstly you said it couldn't be done and then you say... oh yeah i did it 6 years ago!!! I can think of 2 winch diesels (rob and kims ) gq and gu who had that power a long time ago... However kims never did have the reliability shawn's has proven to have at that power. Maybe you should do yourself a favour and you won't need a dyno to tell every1 they are full of shit... come away and watch what shawn and the boys diesels can do and the power that it does have... And you might surprise yourself and enjoy it at the same time. Ps once again as mick has said... in order for a diesel to run in diesel class at coopers it must have the same motor it came out with... ie- a td42 for a nissan gq. Thats what mick and kev are looking for not a duramax because it simply dies not apply... Some of your statements didn't need to go where they have. I Good luck kev and mick on the hp chase....im sure everyone will get great injoyment out of watching kev with 300hp behind him!!!

Luke Ayers

[Northside 4x4]

First things first.... There is no way you were the first to make 300hp Injector pump for big Hp...Firstly you said it couldn't be done and then you say... oh yeah i did it 6 years ago!!! I can think of 2 winch diesels (rob and kims ) gq and gu who had that power a long time ago... However kims never did have the reliability shawn's has proven to have at that power. Maybe you should do yourself a favour and you won't need a dyno to tell every1 they are full of shit... come away and watch what shawn and the boys diesels can do and the power that it does have... And you might surprise yourself and enjoy it at the same time. Ps once again as mick has said... in order for a diesel to run in diesel class at coopers it must have the same motor it came out with... ie- a td42 for a nissan gq. Thats what mick and kev are looking for not a duramax because it simply dies not apply... Some of your statements didn't need to go where they have. I Good luck kev and mick on the hp chase....im sure everyone will get great injoyment out of watching kev with 300hp behind him!!!

Luke Ayers

You should actually read what I post before jumping on the bandwagon.
Ive said it multiple times. 300HP needs more than a turbo and pump upgrade, not that it cannot be done.
is 350 reliable hp possible? I have my doubts, but hey, I dont see why that would stop people from trying or make everybody else jump on the 'it definitely can' bandwagon.

Trying to get back on topic again!... Electronic Boost Control. Does anybody use it for hipo applications?
Apart from just controlling boost, it can also be setup to control water sprays or water injection setups, different boost maps based on TPS or EGT.

It can also control electronically the amount of air that gets to the compensator. Im sure all the top teams use this combined with an EGT temp sender to start to drop fuel back on very high EGT's though.

You can have alot more fuel than is safe, but for a short period of time only. After which dialing it back will greatly benefit engine reliability.
This could be enough of an advantage, having an extra ~20HP out of each corner for 3-5seconds is enough to make a good difference by the end of the race.

[SuperiorEngineering]

I remember racing robbie with my GQ that was dyno'd at The performance centre with 280RWHP without NOS and rob was a far bit faster than mine once we both hit 4th gear, Robs certainly was quick.

I would have thought robs was over 300RWHP and that was a few years back.

Never asked rob how much it had in HP and i dont think rob actually cared, all he worried about was winning and that was good especially as we were heavily involved in the sponsorship back then.

Kev is going to be mad to watch with a little power under his foot, maybe we should fit an airbag for him because i am sure he will be loose.

Just one Question for Northside 4x4 , Who is actually behind all your posts as i know a lot of people are wondering and there is some friendly betting going on to who is the phantom poster ?

Mick

[Northside 4x4]

I could possibly settle those friendly bets Mick. After you let me know what the odds are over PM

[doe]

[quote="SuperiorEngineering"]I remember racing robbie with my GQ that was dyno'd at The performance centre with 280RWHP without NOS and rob was a far bit faster than mine once we both hit 4th gear, Robs certainly was quick.

I would have thought robs was over 300RWHP and that was a few years back.

Never asked rob how much it had in HP and i dont think rob actually cared, all he worried about was winning and that was good especially as we were heavily involved in the sponsorship back then.

Kev is going to be mad to watch with a little power under his foot, maybe we should fit an airbag for him because i am sure he will be loose.

Just one Question for Northside 4x4 , Who is actually behind all your posts as i know a lot of people are wondering and there is some friendly betting going on to who is the phantom poster ?


Im tipping Leon Mick.

[SuperiorEngineering]

mmm, i am lost i thought it might be jamie, but i dont think jamie does the dyno work so it could be leon because leon does the dyno work or thats what i think ? I dont know i am at my wits end
It is kind of good having secrets in the forum dont we all think so

Mick

[Northside 4x4]

mmm, i am lost i thought it might be jamie, but i dont think jamie does the dyno work so it could be leon because leon does the dyno work or thats what i think ? I dont know i am at my wits end
It is kind of good having secrets in the forum dont we all think so

Mick

Neither, does that mean I keep the pot?

[moddedgu]

I remember racing robbie with my GQ that was dyno'd at The performance centre with 280RWHP without NOS and rob was a far bit faster than mine once we both hit 4th gear, Robs certainly was quick.

I would have thought robs was over 300RWHP and that was a few years back.

Never asked rob how much it had in HP and i dont think rob actually cared, all he worried about was winning and that was good especially as we were heavily involved in the sponsorship back then.

Kev is going to be mad to watch with a little power under his foot, maybe we should fit an airbag for him because i am sure he will be loose.

Just one Question for Northside 4x4 , Who is actually behind all your posts as i know a lot of people are wondering and there is some friendly betting going on to who is the phantom poster ?


Im tipping Leon Mick.

Lindsay?

[SuperiorEngineering]

Now i am scratching my head, o well i might go and have another jack daniels, a sleep and check back later when we all get back on track with the post.
One thing i have not mentioned and that is thanks to everyone for the helpful input you have been posting up as i am sure many guys have appreciated the knowledge that has been shared.
Mick

[Northside 4x4]

I have been trying Mick.

I think once some of the other senior members read the posts I put up regarding the E-Boost control setups, they will have an opinion on the benefits to it.
Especially being able to control the amount of air getting to the compensator... Its a big help for getting EGT's up very quickly but holding/limiting them rather than them continuing to climb.

[Northside 4x4]

Here is an example of how a setup could look by pulling a compensator back in the top end.
By bleeding off some of that boost, you force the compensator back to a lower point, if an input is used to do this above xxx deg Celsius it means you could go much further on midrange tuning for power without the need to back off down the straights.
Im sure watching an EGT gauge can get distracting during a race event?

[sswaffie]

You could make a 2 stage boost control for the compensator with a simple
air toggle and needle valve . Also how would you use pyro to limit fuel or
does the e-boost have a amplifier for the k type probe?