TOUGH TRACKS RD3 2007

[bowtie landie]

This is a load of s*!T. You will have gone from 35 trucks down to 5. How are you going to make a competition out of this. Everything except suspension has to be DOT PLATED - WHY NOT SUSPENSION DOT PLATED THEN. Why not make it impossible to enter.

A bit of an over reaction - 35 trucks down to 5.
$50 says we get more than 5 vehicles. That's an entry fee for a club member. Are you on?

There is no DOT Approval for suspension mods - you either comply or you don't. Suspension and tyres have always been one area that both classes do not comply to for road driven vehicles - but have always formed part of the classes. These 2 items are not likely to change.

Unless your vehicle is NEVER EVER going to go back on the road again, most people would ensure that any suspension mods are reversable. How many high lifted trucks are 'running the gauntlet' driving on the roads each day? If they get pulled up the shorter suspension and smaller tyres go on before being presented over the pits.

I'm not saying it is consistant but the rules on suspenaion & tyres have remained unchanged since the original rules were written.

But to reiterate - there is no DOT Approval for suspension.

[bowtie landie]

Rule 3.4.12 shall have a muffling system fitted

I assume that a straight through exhaust system is considered a "muffling system" or must a muffler be fitted?

The reason that it was written as 'a muffling system must be fitted' is because a Turbo is considered to be a muffler.

So Turbo Diesels are OK with-out a muffler but all naturally aspirated or supercharged petrols and diesels need to run some other sort of muffling system - ie a muffler

[bowtie landie]

rule 2.5 states that the isolation switch must isolate the fuel pump?

What about a mechanical fuel pump? Is stopping the engine considered isolating a mechanical fuel pump?

yes

The fuel pump was mentioned for vehicles with electric fuel pumps. If they were left powered up it could be quite dangerous in the event that a isolator switch had to be activated.

[bowtie landie]

rule 2.2.2 states that a jacking plate and wheel brace must be carried.

Can my jacking plate be the flatest rock I can lay my hands on and Is a ratchet, socket and extension bar considered a wheel brace? Some offset rims do not allow for the use of any standard wheel brace.

The rule states that "Each vehicle shall carry a spare wheel/tyre and the equipment required to replace a damaged tyre/wheel on the track." and then gives examples of what is required. If a wheel brace will not remove your wheel then it is NOT 'equipment required...'

I would be reluctant to use a stone in case it cracked. We are looking at safety & common sense. On hard ground a jacking plate can be more of a nuisance, but if you have it packed and get bogged in mud then you can effect your own recovery.

[bowtie landie]

These new ones do make it pretty much impossible to enter hey....well for three quarters of the current challenge competitors anyway.

If these rules were designed to keep costs in check by gettin rid of coilovers etc. How much is it gonna set everyone back to get everything blue plated in nazi queensland transport land?

Every car will have to be an ICV

It's got me buggered as to how you guys are arriving at your figures. I think you will be surprised as to how many vehicles will still comply with little or no effort. If 3/4 won't be able to enter then we'll be down to 8 trucks. I'll bet Pegboy2000 $50 also that we get more than 8 cars in challenge class.

We discussed coil-overs in depth. Whether we should allow them but limit the length etc. We decided against coil-overs for the following reason.

If a coil or a shocky falls out, or a leaf spring breaks, the vehicle can be repaired on the track - or made moveable fairly easily. In the interests of keeping the tracks open and the vehicles flowing through, we dicided to ban coil-overs because if they bust we have a hell of a job trying to clear the track for the next competitor.

It is better for the competitors, the spectators and hence the sponsors. It was a decision made for the smoother running of the event.

It does cost money to get a vehicle DOT Approved - but it is nothing that you shouldn't have already done anyway. Try competing in Tough Trucks with-out your DOT Approvals !!

And as for ICVs - trust me, I've built an ICV and had it fully approved. It took 10 months to get it through Transport House engineers. It is not as easy as you may think.

[bowtie landie]

rule 34 states that " Driver and navigator shall be breath tested prior to competing "

As "shall" = "Mandatory - no room to deviate from rule" I assume that both driver and navigator of each and every team shall be breath tested prior to commencement of each individual track at every round?

Also will the person/s carry out the breath testing be certified to do so and carry a copy of their certification? Will the breatherlizer/alcolizer be manufactured and certified to Australian standard 3547-1997

Will a current calibration certificate meeting Australian standard AS3547 and SM 2334 relevant to the breatherlizer/alcolizer in use be carried and available for presentation?

Bloody hell Linc - where do you find all this stuff - did you really look up the Australian Standards?

The club has bought 2 breatherlizers. It is the intention to test all competitors at some time through-out the events. In this case "SHALL" means that you shall not refuse to be breatherlized if asked to do so if you want to compete in the event. Not all competitors may be tested. But the method of testing will be say all competitors on a particluar track.

As this is a real issue of safety - I do not think too many people will argue if they test positive.

[bowtie landie]

Yeah Mate, I hear ya.


But I must sat its ok to have the rules, but they must be policed equally over the board of competitors, so Officials - No changing your mind because it suits you at the time, unless is it a safety issue.

Too true, we have been way too lenient for too long and not policed any of the rules. No-one has ever been sent home before. But now we have made a stand on the issues of safety, insurance and smooth management of the event and it will be policed and enforced as equally as possible.

We're not saying we have got everything right - there are some things that will still be ambiquous and open to interpretation. But at least we have made a start.

[bowtie landie]

If it is the case i can't run challange class i'm 110% for a outlaw class even tho the lux hasn't cost alot as i'm only a 3rd yr shit kicker so you don't need a big budget to do it

Dan,

pm me with your phone number & we'll have a chat about your vehicle to see if it complies.

Peter K.

[bowtie landie]

I reckon it is only to keep certain people out. Why have "Dual transfer" DOT plated and not a 4" - 8" lift on "Suspension" Be DOT plated. BECAUSE IT CAN"T BE DONE!!!!!

I Think the Suspension rule should state max 2" Body lift, 2" spring lift or 4" total. This would make it DOT legal.

See how many trucks compete then.

probably only 5 or 8

[bowtie landie]

NO ICV TRUCKS ALOWED

3.4.13 CHASSIS

The original chassis for that make of vehicle shall be used.
• Strengthening with the additional bracing is acceptable.
• Spring and shock absorber mountings may be strengthened.
• Protection plates may be added for strengthening and protection purposes.
• Chassis can be modified.

Chassis VIN numbers shall match the registration papers

The original chassis for that make of vehicle shall be used.

2. Shall

Mandatory - no room to deviate from rule

ICV Vehicles ARE allowed. The person building the ICV has in effect become the vehicle manufacturer. As such he or she still has to meet all the ADRs and Qld Light Vehicle Code in the manufacture of the vehicle. If they choose a chassis of one vehicle, a body off another and the drive train out of something else, then as long as it meets all the relevant codes and gets passed by a certifying engineer (ie DOT Approved), then the vehicle is 100% manufacturers standard. You can not even call a Sierra body on a Bundera chassis a Suzuki Sierra anymore. When you register an ICV you must nominate a new name & make of vehicle. You have become a manufacturer and hence the ICV meets Rule 3.4.13. Registration papers will show all this information also.

[bowtie landie]

Well i like to add my two cents, WHAT A LOAD OF BULLSH$T! How about just bring the Qld Transport to the comp for inspection before we compete and get them check over all our vehicles, i am sure none of us would be coming out of there and back on the road.
I'm with the idea lets go to Jonowen and have some fun!
I second that "Willy"

Bring on Rolly's (Brett) Idea!

Your 2 cents worth has been noted. Very constructive ideas too.!!

[bowtie landie]

all this stuff about d.o.t is a joke .
all the vehicles competing should have to be track worthy not roadworthy.
it is all good having these rules in place but loose the blue plate crap its a waste of time and money.
engineering and modifications should only be policed by tough tracks club.

You have PM

Peter K.

[bowtie landie]

Ahh yeah, i hope your depending on starting the checks at 6:00am in the morning because it's going to take nearly 1hr for the officals to get out of bed then probably another half hr to get motivated and then more time for people to line up then do the checks... so i'm guessing around a 10am track start...... Well... since the qld transport rules, i guess there will be a limited amount of cars so that might bring the track start to 9am. That is all!

Geez your a cheery sole. How about giving us a hand. You've been to these events long enough now. Come and give us a hand to check out vehicles. If you're not competing then you should have plenty of time. If you are then stop stirring up trouble.

See next post re- vehicle inspections.

[bowtie landie]

OK... HOW ABOUT THE ORGANIZERS OF THE EVENT HOLD A SCRUTINEERE WEEKEND A FEW WEEKS PRIOR TO THE EVENT AND LET EVERY ONE KNOW WHAT THEY NEED TO FIX/CHANGE PRIOR TO THE EVENT SO WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME FIELD........


I BUILT MY NEW TRUCK OPN THE CCDA RULES, NOW IM NOT SURE WHAT AND WILL NOT PASS......

GREAT IDEA - if you want to organise something I will be there.

Call me or PM me if you wish - I would have thought your car would be OK

Peter K.

[bowtie landie]

There goes all the GQ's that have GU front ends. Widens the wheel track more than 50mm.

Maybe all the Trophy class could move up to Challenge class so they get at least 10 to 15 competitors in one class.

Not So. A GQ coil sprung vehicle had front & rear track of 1530mm and 1535mm respectively.

The 3L DX GU Wagon had 1555 and 1575mm track respectively.

source:-
Genuine Nissan Service Manual GQ
and Nissan Australia internet site GU Patrols

[bowtie landie]

Nah "wheel spacers" must not be wider than 50mm nothing about track width

No we haven't written anything about 50mm track increase - but DOT regs satte no more than 50mm increase in track.

[bowtie landie]

Yep needs to be plated (done) does not need to be plated and legal.

I don't want to know !!!

As far as I am aware (my official opinion) is that if it is blue plated (and that means the certificate to go with it to explain the modification that is approved) then we have no right to contest it.

[bowtie landie]

I might have to use the Navara for the weekend!

Now who has lockers for a D40 and not CIG ones either

We have a spare rear LSD from the front of our GQ !!

Yours with another set of doors should be OK shouldn't it Lynda??

What else have you done ??

[bowtie landie]

Also under 3.4.8 Steering up grades shall be DOT plated

So a GU steering box fitted to a GQ is considered an upgrade and shall need to be DOT plated?

Also what about a GQ fitted with the big GQ steering box (that did not come from factory with the big box fitted) does this also need to be blue plated?

NO - there is no modification in the design or the application. The same bolt holes are used, same steering column etc. It has been replaced with a heavier unit from the same make & model of vehicle and is not considered to be a modification. It has no other effect on any other regulations so it is OK.

[bowtie landie]

To quote and old saying, these rules have certainly opened up a can of

and upon seeing this can of worms - I've decided to go home. It's 4 in the morning and I start work again at 7.30. I will try to answer all posts from the 'can of worms' onward tomorrow.

Regards to all

Peter K.

[80lsy gq]

Try competing in Tough Trucks with-out your DOT Approvals !!

bwahahahaha...

been a while since you went through scrutineering at Tuff Truck obviously

dave

[bowtie landie]

Ok
Can we go back to the GU front diff for a sec...

It increases the wheel track by 40 mm ( i think 20mm each side)
So the steering arms and what not need to be changed or made adjustable?
So does this mean that we need a plate for this as the steering components are not that of standard?

And can someone tell me what the code is for the plate as the guy we use through work has no idea!

Hi Lynda, you have a PM. I didn't realise that you had posted the same questions on here as what you had sent to me by PM.

Peter K.

[bowtie landie]

I take it cages and any exo or external bar work also needs to be plated?

It has been said that any mod that would normally require a blue plate must be plated so this includes adjustable pan hard rods, control arms, etc?

No & No - will discuss in a later post

[bowtie landie]

Graig do crawler gears require a mod plate under rule 3.4.6 about "upgrades" ??? Not sure if there is even a modification code for that.

Crawler gears do not require a mod plate - same as changing diff ratios.

A dual transfercase will require a mod plate if it effects other components such as the rear crossmember, the handbrake, removal or modification of any cross bracing in the chassis etc etc.

[bowtie landie]

adjustable panhards can not be blue plated and are illegal as far as I know some steer linkages can be , exo cages are clasified as a ladder rack from what my engineer told me, adjustable control arms are not legal, aftermarket trail arms need to be X-raye to prove the welds are good, GU diffs are 60mm wider front n 40mm wider rear. The original rules where registered vehicles with appropriate blue plates except tyre n susspension lift, at round 1 the first year my ute was the only vehicle that complied but under the new rules no vehicle will complie as everything will have a defect somewhere.

BIG GQ you will get the same answer I got to my questions shortly, dont like it dont compete
As far as the jeeps are concerend most of them if not all will be anable to compete in trophy for varried suspension and drive line mods

Adjustable panhard rods can not be blueplated. There IS NO code for suspension modifications. But as stated earlier, suspension, tyres, and roll cages we do not require engineers approval.

If you get the (most favourable) figures from Nissan the GU diffs are no less than 50mm wider than the GQ diffs.

[Willy Hilux]

So can I drive another competitors truck to finish off the season???
Do we have to drive the same truck all year???

[bowtie landie]

So can I drive another competitors truck to finish off the season???
Do we have to drive the same truck all year???

Q1 - Yes

Q2 - No


I didn't get to answer as many posts this morning as I would have liked to.

And now - I have to go and help some-one shift house. So the next time I will be back on this site will more than likely be on Sunday.

So if any-one has any more (constructive) comments or queries - go crazy.
(any-one except for Linc that is - only joking buddy)

Peter K.

[STIKA]

Try competing in Tough Trucks with-out your DOT Approvals !!

bwahahahaha...

been a while since you went through scrutineering at Tuff Truck obviously

dave

dave
the first year 2005 scott and i went to tuff truck plates were checked that is why scotts motor was plated, pre scrutineering was conducted by haultech and not checked at the event
2006 mine were checked again at Tuff Truck
2007 they didn't


admittedly NSW has a completly different system to Qld

[Sic Lux]

Rule 3.4.12 shall have a muffling system fitted

I assume that a straight through exhaust system is considered a "muffling system" or must a muffler be fitted?

The reason that it was written as 'a muffling system must be fitted' is because a Turbo is considered to be a muffler.

So Turbo Diesels are OK with-out a muffler but all naturally aspirated or supercharged petrols and diesels need to run some other sort of muffling system - ie a muffler

So say a small "hotdog" style muffler is ok then

[Sic Lux]

Should have read all they way through first PM sent