Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:01 pm**

Finally.......the big block

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:05 pm**

well done Greg looks good

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:53 am**

Hooray!

Finally some proof that I did actually get a drive on Saturday

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:55 am**

bigsteve wrote:Finally.......the big block

Note the BIG TOIBO and custom Dump Pipe

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:22 am**

greg wrote:Hooray!

Finally some proof that I did actually get a drive on Saturday

I like the idea of you letting other people drive your car, very generous of you. I think this is an attitude you should keep up. Hint hint hint (from a non suzuki driving organising a great day lots of fun to be had but will have to spectate kind of guy)

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:26 am**

you can drive my car graham

i'll have to drive (*cough* bash *cough*) your patrol though

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:48 am**

Graham .. your welcome to drive my junk .. I want to get some pics of it actually moving .. so you best get in VERY EARLY

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:05 pm**

love_mud wrote:Graham .. your welcome to drive my junk .. I want to get some pics of it actually moving .. so you best get in VERY EARLY

i.e. you'd better drive it whilst at the Shell servo coz it could easily break on the way to weribbee

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:25 am**

two shots of greg's zook from saturday

Posted: **Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:27 am**

here's another shot from the weekend... roof off, doors off, windscreen off

Note: must purchase some sunglasses

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:11 pm**

grimbo wrote:I try to help where possible

As Grimbo has finally stayed true to his word, there are some lovely pics of the little car in its current state at this location

http://www.suzuki-4wd-club.rockcrawler. ... /werribee/

Note: It's the green one

Posted: **Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:42 pm**

I've just read this whole thread (took three beers)

I love your approach ie light weight. I used this path to build the quickest naturally aspirated FWD car in the country and now I plan on using this approach with my 4B.

How much weight difference is there between the Cap motor and the 1.3?
If you were to do it again would you still go Cap motor???

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:51 pm**

uphiir wrote:How much weight difference is there between the Cap motor and the 1.3?
If you were to do it again would you still go Cap motor???

Sorry - don't think that we ever weighed the engine when it was out... but it was definately lighter than the 1.3. And it's dimentions were a fair bit smaller too. Still the same height, but about 100mm less depth (front to back of car)...

If i did it again - would i pick the cap motor? - This is a bit of a tricky one to answer...

Did it meet my requirements - sure, so far it has worked a treat, the car balances beautifully, and runs and starts on some pretty cool angles... But it's definately been much harder to make work than was anticipated due to issues with the gear box, and definately the overall cost of this motor change far exceeded what i had budgeted for... But i guess from reading about other people on this site that have put vitara 1600 motors in, my costs are pretty closely in line with what they have spent.

I think alot of the unexpected costs have to do with the fact that i didn't know anything about turbo engines at the start of the build, so there were a lot of things that i didn't budget for: custom intercooler, air pod, thermo fan, turbo boost controller, boost gauge, efi vitara fuel tank etc... these all added up to be a fair load of dosh...

However, the car certainly has a very 'cool' vibe to it... I haven't seen any other sierras around that are sneezing, and fluttering... And there's also a lot about it that is very 'wrong' with what you would expect as a non-car educated person... i.e. a capable suzuki, a downsized engine that is more powerful then the original, a sneezing sierra, a beaten up olive drab car with a modern efi turbo engine etc... There are lots of things that just don't add up right with the car - but that's what makes it cool i think. (hope that made sense)....

I think that the engine works really well in my setup, but we certainly did a lot of number crunching with gears, tyres, cappo transmission, torque figures, horse power, peak rev range etc... before knuckling down and buying the engine... Because i think it would have been very easy to buy it for a different application, put it in, and find it to be completely useless.

Would i go a cap motor again? Sure - i think so... Would i recommend that someone else got a cap motor - maybe, maybe not... It would very much depend on the application of what you were going to put it into.

Hope that answers the question - or at least gives you some food for thought

Cheers,

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:26 pm**

TuffRR wrote:Greg - i was wondering what sort of fuel economy you were getting with that monster motor of yours?

Finally did this check...

21L = 204kms on the odometer... which, since my speedo is out of wack by +14% at 100kms, we can say that it really travelled 175kms...

This means it has about 8.4kms per litre... (this was all on-road driving - 50% city and traffic, 50% country)

Posted: **Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:55 am**

Minor Update:

Spent a few days over the past few weeks doing some tweaking to the car...

1. removed two leaves from the rear springs - the back will now tuck up to hitting the bump stop on full compression :cool:

(previously it wouldn't get closer than 2"... This has made the car balance even more than before... I'll get the tape measure out and measure the ride height again some time soon).

2. started the mounting on the winch - it's going to be sitting on some 150mm angle welded to the chassis at the front. The winch sits below the intercooler infront of the radiator and does not interfere with approach angle (this is still dictated by the positioning of the front spring shackles)...
The winch controller box is going to be positioned in the passenger footwell on the firewall - this should keep it a bit cleaner than when it's in the engine bay.

3. installed another ammo box in the back for some storage of tools (more leg room for you next time big steve

)

4. Picking up my new battery this evening (i hope) - duel post yellow top optima :cool:

(Pete - i'll get yours back to you asap - thanks again for the loan

).

5. Started on the half doors for the car too - done the cutt'n, just have to complete the capp'n and paint'n.

So far the new clutch is holding up a treat and the gearbox (with the custom shift adaptors) is starting to bed in and shift quite nicely.

We did have one issue with the car - the fuel pump decided that it had had enough and started to call it quits every so often - this has since been replaced (thanks Mock

).

However, i have found one more problem with being in a soft top - being stuck in traffic two cars away from a garbage truck is un-pleasant

Posted: **Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:07 am**

greg wrote:Minor Update:
3. installed another ammo box in the back for some storage of tools (more leg room for you next time big steve )

thanks mate, you can put your doors and windscreen in my wifes car any time.

Seriously though, has the ride height changed?? are you touching the fronts??

Posted: **Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:12 am**

bigsteve wrote:thanks mate, you can put your doors and windscreen in my wifes car any time.

yeah cheers. :cool:

Don't forget to bring some goggles this time though

bigsteve wrote:Seriously though, has the ride height changed?? are you touching the fronts??

If you mean the front bump stops - they have always touched since we did the RUF and removed leaves from those springs too :cool:

Steve G reckoned the back had dropped a bit. The winch on the front (all 37kg's of it) does bring the front down a touch too... but i haven't measured it to be sure.

Posted: **Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:14 am**

greg wrote:
bigsteve wrote:thanks mate, you can put your doors and windscreen in my wifes car any time.

yeah cheers. Don't forget to bring some goggles this time though

bigsteve wrote:Seriously though, has the ride height changed?? are you touching the fronts??

If you mean the front bump stops - they have always touched since we did the RUF and removed leaves from those springs too

Steve G reckoned the back had dropped a bit. The winch on the front (all 37kg's of it) does bring the front down a touch too... but i haven't measured it to be sure.

So in the rear you just have the 2 full length springs in each pack now??

Posted: **Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:18 am**

bigsteve wrote:So in the rear you just have the 2 full length springs in each pack now??

No - the rear has 3 leaves in there - not sure if it was the heavy duty pack... I'm pretty sure the front has 3 also.

What it does do now is roll the cabin a bit more than before going around corners - i may have to adjust those shocks a bit - or at least get used to it again :cool:

Posted: **Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:26 am**

greg wrote:
bigsteve wrote:So in the rear you just have the 2 full length springs in each pack now??

i may have to adjust those shocks a bit - or at least get used to it again

3 for the road was sweet for mine.

You can just about reach all 4 dials from the drivers seat anyway.

Posted: **Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:27 am**

bigsteve wrote:You can just about reach all 4 dials from the drivers seat anyway.

not all of us have 6 foot long arms dude

Posted: **Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:52 am**

greg wrote:Picking up my new battery this evening (i hope) - duel post yellow top optima

Ended up with a Blue Top duel post (apparently this is 2 x :cool:

)

Posted: **Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:37 am**

Well the saga of the gearbox continued on the weekend when a slight lack of maintence resulted in a rather annoying piece of breakage...

The story was that the gearbox had a leaking seal at the back of the box (where the jackshaft goes in) and this would drip out when the car is pointing up a steep incline. Okay no problem - get a new seal, and keep topping up the oil every so often to make sure there is enough in there.

So, on my way up to my mates place to do some more work on the fitting of the winch (where i also intended on topping up the oil - and possibly even changing over the seal - which i had already gotten), i was cruising along the freeway and just coming up to the exit ramp when there was a pretty ugly jolt - quick check - still running, so i down geared into fourth and exited the freeway then slowed right down to turn on to the next road and down geared to second - but had no drive... so we pretty soon ran out of forward momentum (i was trying to climb a small hill) so i had to roll back and steer up onto the pavement...

From there i eventually got the car up the my mates place (thanks Mick for the tow), where we did a bit of thinking about what was wrong - put the x-fer in neutral - every gear did nothing except for fourth - which would sprin the jackshaft, but not all the time...

Alas. So out came the gearbox (again), and we cracked it open to see what was up... There were little flakes of steel/metal in the oil that was drained...

Here are the pics:

Posted: **Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:42 am**

Gearbox Saga Continues Part 2:

This is what the gearbox bits and pieces should look like :oops:

Posted: **Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:54 am**

Gearbox Saga Continues - Part 3

So as you can see from the above pics, there was a bit of damage to the 4th gear.

So out came the melted pieces, and in went some nice new pieces (including the new gearbox seal) to fix the box and back in she went. Thankfully we had that spare gearbox sitting around :cool:

The conclusion that we came up with was that there was a lack of oil in the box - and this most likely resulted in the gear overheating to the point that it softened, and eventually just moved out of the way.

Why 4th? Because it is right up the front of the gear box, so when climbing inclines, or travelling at speed - it would make sense that all the oil would move to the back of the box - which of course would leave 4th gear dry and un-lubricated - hense the heat. Also (i think) that in the cap box, fourth gear is always running - or atleast it is when using 4th or 5th - so this is when the box is spinning the most too.

We collected up the oil and (using our highly trained minds) measured it by using some measuring cups (read: yoghurt containers) to determine that there was about 600mL of oil in the box.

The specified amount for the gearbox is 1.06L - so clearly it was a bit short. :oops:

Oh, and in addition to that - the front bar got welded up a bit more, i got the winch controller box mount setup and will be heading into ARB on saturday to get the new wiring for the winch too

However - this raises the question - when was the last time you checked your oil? I don't presume you all have spare gearboxes sitting around just waiting for you to melt a gear

Although - if anyone else has a cap box sitting around, i may no someone that would want it :lol:

Posted: **Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:00 am**

I belibe that 4th gear is also 1:1 drive so it is always under load (It drives basically constantly) This looks exactly like my gearbox did when I did what you did ..

Perhaps a way of monitoring your gearbox temps may be a good idea .. especially if you do alot of climbs (I know the 1.3 box looses oil out of the rear gearbox breather past about a 27 to 30 degree slope) ..

Posted: **Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:03 am**

love_mud wrote:I belibe that 4th gear is also 1:1 drive so it is always under load (It drives basically constantly) This looks exactly like my gearbox did when I did what you did ..

I "belibe" that to be the case with 4th gear also.

love_mud wrote:Perhaps a way of monitoring your gearbox temps may be a good idea .. especially if you do alot of climbs (I know the 1.3 box looses oil out of the rear gearbox breather past about a 27 to 30 degree slope) ..

Quite true - there is already a hunt being performed (by me) to track down another bling gauge to fill the other air vent (read: guage hole) in the dash... I'm guessing that either an Oil Temp, or Transmission Temp gauge would be the g-o...

However, these come in a few different ranges (i.e. temp ranges) - any ideas what a gearbox like mine would required? i.e. up to 300degrees? or less or more?

Posted: **Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:25 am**

greg wrote:Quite true - there is already a hunt being performed (by me) to track down another bling gauge to fill the other air vent (read: guage hole) in the dash... I'm guessing that either an Oil Temp, or Transmission Temp gauge would be the g-o...

However, these come in a few different ranges (i.e. temp ranges) - any ideas what a gearbox like mine would required? i.e. up to 300degrees? or less or more?

I would think that 300 would be a bit to much .. but then again .. I am no gearbox temp expert .. I would think that if it hit 200c that it may be getting a little warm ..

Oh yes .. an dbelibe is a word you sue when refering to melted input\4th gear gears in a suzuki gearbox that is running behind a motor other than the standard motor for a modified sierra on 33inch or larger tyres with at least one traction aiding device installed while in the genreal epping\whittlesea area ... It's weird that you didnt know that

Posted: **Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:26 am**

greg wrote:
love_mud wrote:I belibe that 4th gear is also 1:1 drive so it is always under load (It drives basically constantly) This looks exactly like my gearbox did when I did what you did ..

I "belibe" that to be the case with 4th gear also.

love_mud wrote:Perhaps a way of monitoring your gearbox temps may be a good idea .. especially if you do alot of climbs (I know the 1.3 box looses oil out of the rear gearbox breather past about a 27 to 30 degree slope) ..

Quite true - there is already a hunt being performed (by me) to track down another bling gauge to fill the other air vent (read: guage hole) in the dash... I'm guessing that either an Oil Temp, or Transmission Temp gauge would be the g-o...

However, these come in a few different ranges (i.e. temp ranges) - any ideas what a gearbox like mine would required? i.e. up to 300degrees? or less or more?

Posted: **Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:46 am**

love_mud wrote:dbelibe is a word you sue when refering to melted input\4th gear gears in a suzuki gearbox

Now I know the whole litiguous thing is getting out of hand when poor misspelt words end up in court

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Rebuilding Greg's Sierra