Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Elected to go with 2 x 90 & 2x 45 degree speed flow fittings as it keeps things much neater at the fire wall end. The other end will be decided on when installed but cheaper straight fittings may suit having more room.

Did John contact you bout the 4.2 GU yet?

bogged wrote:Did John contact you bout the 4.2 GU yet?

LornJohn has yes as well as Benhl both with GU's

I think I will start a new GU thread when we start to prototype the GU. These will be bolt on ones, unless someone want's one like Marin's but those are expensive one offs that have a whole lot of fabrication.

I am interested to see how the bolt on GQ compares on the flow bench to Marin's personally I think there will be little gain if any, but I could be wrong. If nothing else it has shown what we can do both in design and fabrication.

First up will be the bolt on GQ version of Marin's and the BMW.

matt.mcinnes wrote:

bogged wrote:Did John contact you bout the 4.2 GU yet?

LornJohn has yes as well as Benhl both with GU's

I think I will start a new GU thread when we start to prototype the GU..

Id love to with the new turbo with Andys gear, but wrong time of yr with no spare bux :(

wow, i havent been on the forum for a while. But reading this thread has been awesome!!!!

great work- awesome fab work

great to see some good engineering work going into these rather than the old ebay special intercoolers

I for got to ask for another test case, GQ to try the bolt on prototype.

PM me if your interested.

The surgeons knife has fallen

Now for a little Awill4x4's magic

Bigger is always better next up a 12 core for an LS1

Flow tested and all I can say is Marin's engine like mine will not trouble the intercooler.

But until we have real world figures off the Dyno the beers are still on ice, actually they will be on the intercooler is colder

Marin flies in from Perth late Tuesday, I picked a new intake gasket up from Nissan toaday as well as the electric water pump. All been well we should fit the intercooler this weekend and connect it up to the turbo and GU airbox. Just leaving the plumbing of the water to be done.

We only really have to decide on a radiator now. Still looking at options. Sugestions welcome.

Fit as big a radiator as you can to it. Then maybe have a header tank up high in the engine bay.

Andy

Dzltec wrote:Fit as big a radiator as you can to it. Then maybe have a header tank up high in the engine bay.

Andy

Any ideas what will fit nicely? Would be nice to be able to get something standard, not a custom made.

marin

P.s. intercooler is looking HORN! Think I may just be finally getting a little excited!

Would a motor bike rad be any good.

Small enough to fit in but big enough to cool. Plus would be a standard unit available from most bike shops or wreckers.

marin wrote:

Dzltec wrote:Fit as big a radiator as you can to it. Then maybe have a header tank up high in the engine bay.

Andy

Any ideas what will fit nicely? Would be nice to be able to get something standard, not a custom made.

marin

P.s. intercooler is looking HORN! Think I may just be finally getting a little excited!

Are we taking the air con radiator out or are you keeping that?

Subaru radiator from there water/air set up?

The BMW 3.5 litre turbo with Laminova I/cooler we are doing will have a heat exchanger 1100 wide and then we'll double pass it the water will stay in the radiator for a week before it gets back to the I/cooler
Regards Andrew.

marin wrote:

Dzltec wrote:Fit as big a radiator as you can to it. Then maybe have a header tank up high in the engine bay.

Andy

Any ideas what will fit nicely? Would be nice to be able to get something standard, not a custom made.

marin

P.s. intercooler is looking HORN! Think I may just be finally getting a little excited!

AU falcon?? available pretty cheap (ebay), readily available and good large size. dont know if they fit in a Pootrol.

awill4x4 wrote:The BMW 3.5 litre turbo with Laminova I/cooler we are doing will have a heat exchanger 1100 wide and then we'll double pass it the water will stay in the radiator for a week before it gets back to the I/cooler
Regards Andrew.

This radiator will also be curved to suit the front of the BMW.

matt.mcinnes wrote:

marin wrote:

Dzltec wrote:Fit as big a radiator as you can to it. Then maybe have a header tank up high in the engine bay.

Andy

Any ideas what will fit nicely? Would be nice to be able to get something standard, not a custom made.

marin

P.s. intercooler is looking HORN! Think I may just be finally getting a little excited!

Are we taking the air con radiator out or are you keeping that?

This thing is built for comfort, not speed (yet lol) so will be keeping the aircon.... this ain't no 40 series, I can't just take the roof off LOL

marin

This thing is built for comfort, not speed (yet lol) so will be keeping the aircon.... this ain't no 40 series, I can't just take the roof off LOL

marin

I have an ANGLE GRINDER

80's_delirious wrote:

marin wrote:

Dzltec wrote:Fit as big a radiator as you can to it. Then maybe have a header tank up high in the engine bay.

Andy

Any ideas what will fit nicely? Would be nice to be able to get something standard, not a custom made.

marin

P.s. intercooler is looking HORN! Think I may just be finally getting a little excited!

AU falcon?? available pretty cheap (ebay), readily available and good large size. dont know if they fit in a Pootrol.

That's what I'm using, an AU rad, with the twin electric fans. But not in a Nissan so I can't help with how it would fit.

The Ford fan would be great if we can fit it cheap and readily available but space looks limited.

Marin has a busy day ahead, I was going to fit the intercooler at the weekend but Marin has other plans. So he's starting it today.

Me I'm off to so he best be quite.

No doubt he will read the post.

Keys are on the desk along with the Torque Wrench and camera to photograph the install Hopefully he will be all done by the time I get up.

Well best laid plans and all

Marin called at 10:30am the Golf had broken down at Dandy. So out of bed and off to rescue him

He did however manage to get the intercooler from Awill4x4 with the support bracket mounting.

So here is where we are up to:

DTS out



Intercooler in





Injector lines clear perfectly.



As does the dip stick:



Marin has a 2" body lift and heaps of room. I reckon this would fit a stock un lifted GQ:



Marin took the 40 shopping for parts to make his intake up, I'm off to bed again All been well I can get some

just read through this whole thing, how much would a whole setup ready to bolt on cost for GQ TD42?
and what filter do you use, as obviously no kind of on top of engine filter can be used, is that GU TD42T filter a main cleaner not a pre-cleaner?

how long have the runs you have been logging with this? how much time do you think it would take at full boost before the setup loses its efficiency?

the reason i ask is i would also consider fitting one of these setups to a circuit car i am building, but am worried about them not hacking it for 30 laps at 20PSI in the engine bay of a ke70 corolla with a 2litre straight six in it. any thoughts and interest and taking it on?

cheers, andrew

I have PM'd you re cost

Yes Marin is running a GU TD42T filter.

Marin's Mav we only installed today, he is now waiting on parts to connect the Turbo back up coming in next week. So I don't expect any data from this until early next year as Marin is back in Perth shortly until Xmas. Though I see no reason for his data to be any different to mine.

My intercooler we have been data logging since mid 2008 and the results have been astounding to be honest.

I have no issues with our intercooler's hacking it for 30 laps, the key will be the heat exchanger/radiator to cool the intercooler if this is efficient the intercooler will not suffer from heat soak or loss of efficiency.

The gains are very short intake run from the turbo, as wells as far less volume than an air to air set up so lag is greatly reduced. Disadvantages over air to air are weight and a slightly more complex system on top of cost. Whether this makes it more suitable for circuit racing is hard to say. You would need to be running air to air first then switch and see the differences in the same vehicle.

im gonna talk to my engine/car builder and see what he thinks, if it saves me a grand in pipework of refitting the air/air, which has a massive run of piping and is huge, and this works better, ill be very happy.
would you say the 4core will do the job on the circuit?
only issue is gonna be mounting a second radiator, hardly enough room for one at the moment.
should be doable though..
hrmm.
thanks for the info and ill do some research into it and come up with a decision
what sort of flow rate do you have on the pump to keep it in the radiator long enough to cool itself? obviously pumping the water around too fast is gonna lead to more heatsoak, less cooling of the intake charge and less cooling of the water as its not in any place long enough to exchange any heat...
thanks for the PM, definately something to think about, quite an exciting prospect for me at the moment
thanks, andrew

love ke70 wrote:im gonna talk to my engine/car builder and see what he thinks, if it saves me a grand in pipework of refitting the air/air, which has a massive run of piping and is huge, and this works better, ill be very happy.
would you say the 4core will do the job on the circuit?
only issue is gonna be mounting a second radiator, hardly enough room for one at the moment.
should be doable though..
hrmm.
thanks for the info and ill do some research into it and come up with a decision
what sort of flow rate do you have on the pump to keep it in the radiator long enough to cool itself? obviously pumping the water around too fast is gonna lead to more heatsoak, less cooling of the intake charge and less cooling of the water as its not in any place long enough to exchange any heat...
thanks for the PM, definately something to think about, quite an exciting prospect for me at the moment
thanks, andrew

Ok Q's

How much HP do you hope to make?
What are your calculated max air temps post Turbo at this HP?

Turbo Temp calc , and it works if you don't know the above.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

If you have room for a large Air to Air I/C I would use that space for the second radiator and as big as you can fit.
Oh and maybe an ICE box under the bonnet to run through at least the few laps you would be lapping it up until it melts
Pump Davis Craig EWP80 which moves 80LtrPerMin
Matt

matt.mcinnes wrote:

love ke70 wrote:im gonna talk to my engine/car builder and see what he thinks, if it saves me a grand in pipework of refitting the air/air, which has a massive run of piping and is huge, and this works better, ill be very happy.
would you say the 4core will do the job on the circuit?
only issue is gonna be mounting a second radiator, hardly enough room for one at the moment.
should be doable though..
hrmm.
thanks for the info and ill do some research into it and come up with a decision
what sort of flow rate do you have on the pump to keep it in the radiator long enough to cool itself? obviously pumping the water around too fast is gonna lead to more heatsoak, less cooling of the intake charge and less cooling of the water as its not in any place long enough to exchange any heat...
thanks for the PM, definately something to think about, quite an exciting prospect for me at the moment
thanks, andrew

Ok Q's

How much HP do you hope to make?
What are your calculated max air temps post Turbo at this HP?

Turbo Temp calc , and it works if you don't know the above.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

If you have room for a large Air to Air I/C I would use that space for the second radiator and as big as you can fit.
Oh and maybe an ICE box under the bonnet to run through at least the few laps you would be lapping it up until it melts
Pump Davis Craig EWP80 which moves 80LtrPerMin
Matt

400hp at the tyres, through an 8" diff, 225/50R15, and a supra 5 speed, so could be as silly as 500 at the engine.
might not stretch its legs this far, the oiling system is a bit hit and miss til you get it right, but with the research that a few guys have put in it should hold together perfectly at these power levels.
wont be settling for any less than 350 at the tyres anyway.

max air temps if i did it right are around the 160 celsius mark.

my only worry with the second rad is then not being able to keep the engine cool enough, used to have dramas with it, very tight engine bay so it gets hot easy, but i should be able to work it, after all a radiator is alot thinner than a 100mm intercooler core.

ice box around the water in you reckon?
dry ice would be fun
would make for fun drag runs.

cheers, andrew

Think out side the square too, you could mount the intercooler radiator to the inside of the boot lid with twin thermo fans sucking on it if your allowed.

Your temps would be a real test for a 4 core unit

you sponsor me, ill do it

done some reading tonight, gonna do some more over the next week or two, play with some numbers and see how hard its gonna be to keep the water temp down.
ill keep my eyes on the thread for updates and keep in touch, thanks for the chat this evening, given me a nice little headache

love ke70 wrote:you sponsor me, ill do it

done some reading tonight, gonna do some more over the next week or two, play with some numbers and see how hard its gonna be to keep the water temp down.
ill keep my eyes on the thread for updates and keep in touch, thanks for the chat this evening, given me a nice little headache

If your locating the intercooler radiator remotely in the boot, you could also look at running a large header tank in the boot. something like 20litere tank to increase the water volume in the system so it takes longer to heat up. Or add a series of 1m long 50mm thin walled copper or ali tubes to the return line to increase system volume, mounted so they also have air flow around them so heat can dissapate from the tubes.

10m of 50mm tube = approx 20 litres