Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:37 am**

^^^ I don't think it's as bad as people are making out.

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:44 am**

Also some comparative dyno graphs with Power V Rpm would be great. They must include a stock set up as well sowe can see where the benefits are. No use having 300hp at 4000rpm and 60hp at 3000.

Posted: **Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:38 am**

It still comes down to a (smarter turbo) if you are chasing 300hp at wheels.Mabey twin turbo or a variable vein turbo.Thats the key..

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:24 pm**

More so compund turbos or toy with the idea of supercharger and turbo setup to have boost at all rpm

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:49 am**

nissannewby wrote:More so compund turbos or toy with the idea of supercharger and turbo setup to have boost at all rpm

superchargers are nowhere near as good as people think. The only reason they get any decent boost out of them for drag racing is because they are pouring methanol through them and the rules say they cant use turbos.
Even if you could intercool it TD42 crank nose would not last long trying to transmit enough horsepower to run a blower making 20psi of boost.
Modern turbos don't have as much lag as before, and please don't trot out the boost from idle chestnut, that's what you have a gearbox for.

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:43 am**

Big boost at idle isn't much use anyway, you get a huge amount of torsional vibration unless you've got a massive flywheel.
Big boost just off idle is very good but turbos can provide that if well matched. It takes huge amounts of power to run a turbo, but a large chunk of that would normally be wasted. It takes even more to run a supercharger and that's parasitic straight of your crank.

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:21 am**

Northside 4x4 wrote:.

Apart from that, it was an interesting read today for most of the boy's at the shop (few laugh's to )
To show im not to backwards, or hiding behind a wall of text, we are interested in getting out there again to show a few other TD42's how to do it
Few part's ordered as a result:
Forged Steel Crank: Knife edged, lightened (roughly 40% lighter than std)
Custom Forged Steel rods (25% lighter, 60% increase in strength over standard)
Custom Pistons (Forged, 32% lighter, 15% stronger than std)
Will build a GTXX/GTXX compound setup for the job as even a VNT can match compounds for efficiency.
Hoping to get up around 65psi with block o-ring and better liners.
Pump built to deliver up to 6000rpm.

Have the full engine to build. Just need a car to put it in!

How is the build going...?? Keen to see this keep going... cant believe how fast TD42's are going now... One has already won coopers outright this year so onwards and upwards i say....

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:24 pm**

MikeH wrote:
nissannewby wrote:More so compund turbos or toy with the idea of supercharger and turbo setup to have boost at all rpm
superchargers are nowhere near as good as people think. The only reason they get any decent boost out of them for drag racing is because they are pouring methanol through them and the rules say they cant use turbos.
Even if you could intercool it TD42 crank nose would not last long trying to transmit enough horsepower to run a blower making 20psi of boost.
Modern turbos don't have as much lag as before, and please don't trot out the boost from idle chestnut, that's what you have a gearbox for.

A little off topic, but has me stumped. Why are there rules against turbos in drag racing? (I presume we are talking top fuel/alcohol)

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:02 pm**

Because the principle of operation is witchcraft hyuk hyuk. Same reason NASCAR ran carburetors until this year. Technology is the devil and innovation = cheating.
But seriously... It's intent is about limiting power for safety reasons but it doesn't really work it just makes lots of power really really really expensive so the people who do have heaps of power have the money for good safety systems too.

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:53 pm**

vanbox wrote:
MikeH wrote:
nissannewby wrote:More so compund turbos or toy with the idea of supercharger and turbo setup to have boost at all rpm
superchargers are nowhere near as good as people think. The only reason they get any decent boost out of them for drag racing is because they are pouring methanol through them and the rules say they cant use turbos.
Even if you could intercool it TD42 crank nose would not last long trying to transmit enough horsepower to run a blower making 20psi of boost.
Modern turbos don't have as much lag as before, and please don't trot out the boost from idle chestnut, that's what you have a gearbox for.
A little off topic, but has me stumped. Why are there rules against turbos in drag racing? (I presume we are talking top fuel/alcohol)

I dont believe there is any regulations on what type of forced induction they use in top level classes? It would take one big sucker of a turbo (or 4) to supply enough air to the engine to make the required HP.
Those blowers supply around 3000cfm at 45psi.
They also dont run a transmission to allow the revs to come up to a point where the turbo's could work off the line.

Posted: **Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:02 am**

Northside 4x4 wrote:I dont believe there is any regulations on what type of forced induction they use in top level classes? It would take one big sucker of a turbo (or 4) to supply enough air to the engine to make the required HP.
Those blowers supply around 3000cfm at 45psi.
They also dont run a transmission to allow the revs to come up to a point where the turbo's could work off the line.

The NHRA website makes it sound as prescriptive as the Taxi Race: http://www.nhra.com/nhra101/classes.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NHRA wrote:Top Fuel
Among the fastest-accelerating machines in the world, 7,000-horsepower Top Fuel dragsters are often referred to as the "kings of the sport," and with good reason. They are capable of covering a quarter-mile in 4.4 seconds at more than 330 mph. Powered by a supercharged and fuel-injected 500-cubic-inch adaptation of the famed Chrysler Hemi engine, Top Fuel dragsters can burn up to 15 gallons of nitromethane fuel during a single quarter-mile run. Constructed of chromoly steel tubing and carbon-fiber composite, Top Fuel cars are 25 feet long and weigh 2,250 pounds in race-ready trim.

Posted: **Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:02 pm**

A more interesting fact based read on fuelers and their mind bending numbers.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/112_ ... ewall.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:44 am**

Their tyres are surprisingly good value.

Posted: **Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:51 pm**

KiwiBacon wrote:Their tyres are surprisingly good value.

I was thinking the exact same thing

Posted: **Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:53 pm**

Joshie_C wrote:
Northside 4x4 wrote:.

Apart from that, it was an interesting read today for most of the boy's at the shop (few laugh's to )
To show im not to backwards, or hiding behind a wall of text, we are interested in getting out there again to show a few other TD42's how to do it
Few part's ordered as a result:
Forged Steel Crank: Knife edged, lightened (roughly 40% lighter than std)
Custom Forged Steel rods (25% lighter, 60% increase in strength over standard)
Custom Pistons (Forged, 32% lighter, 15% stronger than std)
Will build a GTXX/GTXX compound setup for the job as even a VNT can match compounds for efficiency.
Hoping to get up around 65psi with block o-ring and better liners.
Pump built to deliver up to 6000rpm.

Have the full engine to build. Just need a car to put it in!
How is the build going...?? Keen to see this keep going... cant believe how fast TD42's are going now... One has already won coopers outright this year so onwards and upwards i say....

Well hows it going?!

Posted: **Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:09 pm**

How is the build going...?? Keen to see this keep going... cant believe how fast TD42's are going now... One has already won coopers outright this year so onwards and upwards i say....

Well hows it going?!

Howz it going x 3

Posted: **Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:34 am**

JJBigWheels wrote:

How is the build going...?? Keen to see this keep going... cant believe how fast TD42's are going now... One has already won coopers outright this year so onwards and upwards i say....

Well hows it going?!
Howz it going x 3

Even a photo of the parts that were ordered would be good to wet the whistle

Posted: **Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:02 am**

How much for a crank?

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:17 pm**

*insert cricket noise here*

Was that a tumbleweed I just seen roll thru...

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:40 pm**

MikeH wrote:How much for a crank?

I got a slap in the face last time I asked a girl that..

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:24 pm**

blackmav wrote:
MikeH wrote:How much for a crank?
I got a slap in the face last time I asked a girl that..

I asked a bloke that and I may as well have been slapped, I just about fell off my chair. They aren't cheap.

So what did your knife edged 40% lighter crank cost? PM me if you like.
Also what's it made of and have you done anything else differently in its construction?

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:01 pm**

JJBigWheels wrote:

How is the build going...?? Keen to see this keep going... cant believe how fast TD42's are going now... One has already won coopers outright this year so onwards and upwards i say....

Well hows it going?!
Howz it going x 3

Probably just more piss in the wind fellas.

i mean there are replies to all the other questions.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:07 pm**

marty wrote:
JJBigWheels wrote:

How is the build going...?? Keen to see this keep going... cant believe how fast TD42's are going now... One has already won coopers outright this year so onwards and upwards i say....

Well hows it going?!
Howz it going x 3
Even a photo of the parts that were ordered would be good to wet the whistle

Ive got what ya need Marty and yes they have been ordered.

MAtt

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:45 am**

Very nice work there.
Theres not much meat on the crank is there. Should spin up nice.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:07 am**

Anyone stuck a torque wrench on one end of that crank to see how much more twist it has over a stock item?

I'm struggling to understand why you would lighten parts which need to take more boost and torque than stock items. Lightweight rotating parts are great for getting a torqueless petrol up in the revs quickly.
What is the piston made from? It looks aluminium alloy but I'm hoping it's not, you'll need steel reinforced ring-lands to take decent boost.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:10 am**

UGOTNUFN wrote:
marty wrote:
JJBigWheels wrote:

How is the build going...?? Keen to see this keep going... cant believe how fast TD42's are going now... One has already won coopers outright this year so onwards and upwards i say....

Well hows it going?!
Howz it going x 3
Even a photo of the parts that were ordered would be good to wet the whistle
Ive got what ya need Marty and yes they have been ordered.

MAtt

Ha Ha yes seen those before Matt.
I knew you had photos of yours, I thought there might be some for this other killer TD that the parts were ordered for.
But then I here things are hard to keep in stock as demand is high.

MikeH I mentioned this once before in another thread, If you knew someone with a TB48 crank you could measure, that maybe the go.
If the bore spacings were the same, you could possible get a unfinished crank and machine it to fit the TD block. Just a thought.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:34 pm**

On further thought that would not work so well.
You need better material for the crank if you stroke it,the stresses on it are tremendous once you start spinning it with big heavy pistons, throw lots of boost and fuel at it then take it all out at one end with big sticky tyres.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:10 pm**

MikeH wrote:On further thought that would not work so well.
You need better material for the crank if you stroke it,the stresses on it are tremendous once you start spinning it with big heavy pistons, throw lots of boost and fuel at it then take it all out at one end with big sticky tyres.

That crank picture is actually an N/A crank that has been knife edged to illustrate the outcome , I will dig up a pic of the 4340 crank! Swaffie may have one handy

Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:03 am**

I know about Swaffies bulletproof cranks. Just wondering what Northside's cranks are made of, how they're made and how much they cost. Or did I get confused and the quote attributed to Northside above was someone else's and they are not building a serious TD42 as well?

Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:08 am**

MikeH wrote:On further thought that would not work so well.
You need better material for the crank if you stroke it,the stresses on it are tremendous once you start spinning it with big heavy pistons, throw lots of boost and fuel at it then take it all out at one end with big sticky tyres.

Aren't the Brian Crower 4.8 cranks 4340?
I'm sure you could buy the raw forging.

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

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