Outer Limits 4x4 Board

turbo4.8 wrote:the bigger the turbo you put on the more kw you will make, it comes down to you where you want to make the power e.g where it come in and what it makes power to. no good putting a huge turbo on as it will be lagy come on boost late take a while to spool up, and not be usable power or torque.

Very true but the turbo is ment to be a Garrett TO4E turbo with a T3 exhaust housing and it spools at around 1800 - 1900rpm.

I have been chatting with the guy i got the turbo kit from and i'm going to get a data sheet tommrow from the dyno and see what everything is doing like a/f mixture and boost level etc . He reakons that they didn't set my timming right.

I have no idea what to do.

Does anyone know of a LPG guy on this fourm i can pm about asking about that $2000 rebate thing.

Thanks heaps

Rick.

Hey Mulisha,

I PM'ed you about 2 weeks ago as I was planning the same mods - to be honest you certainly haven't put me off as 195hp at the rear wheels still sounds pretty good to me! Mine currently makes 81hp at the rears - so you've more than doubled that

I know it's hard for me to comment though as it all comes down to how the car drives - when does it come on boost, does it feel torquey, will it now go up hills in 5th gear etc.

I agree with all the comments on here about tuning though. I used to be into fast cars and had a WRX which made just over 200KW at all 4 wheels - but it was a slug to drive and never felt quite right.

So I took it to another tuner who retuned it, he commented on how poorly tuned it was and the fact that it was leaning out in a big way which if left probably would have led to a blown engine After being retuned it ONLY made 193KW but felt absolutely fantastic, was a pleasure to drive and pretty well wiped the floor with anything on the road.

Tuning is everything - and there are some workshops out there that just don't get it

Try a re-tune with someone else first (contact GAS RESEARCH and explain your experience) and then make some decisions from there

Good Luck with it and if you get a chance drop us a PM with your final specs etc.

what is the dizzy (standard / electronic / billet ?) does it have a boost retard function in it? does the coil give out enough spark? is there to much timing in? all these are questions that need to be asked. there are lots of factors involved.

Over double your initial power sounds pretty good to me. You are getting boost at a fairly low rpm so that suggests that your turbo isn't a huge one.

How much boost is it running in that graph? Honestly for an unintercooled setup I would think that figure is reasonable. Ive helped do a few conversions on falcon and commodore engines and wouldn't expect more than 150rwkw with no intercooler just to be safe.

ps. A cheap ebay cooler is a lot better than nothing. I think one would be fine for what you want.

you can never have enough hp. if you want to fit crap to your car it"s up to you, but i think its better to wait a few more weeks save up a little more money and buy some thing only once, so that when you do want to go to that next step (run more boost, ignition timing,) you won't jump up and down and have to buy it again and think that the guy selling it to you is trying to rip you off.
i.v seen plenty of guys put crap on there car and expect it to make good power. it's very unefficiant for the motor and you could hurt it.

Thanks alot guys.

I'm getting the data sheet from the dyno hopefully today i hope they didn't get rid of it. That will tell me how much boost i made e/f ratio etc.

For timming and igntion. I have a elec ign one of those Petronix ones with a one of those transformer coils and i'm using a MSD Boost Timming Master.

When i was speaking to the guy who made my kit he reakons my timming is out and he just reakons there is something up.

this is going to be hard to explain but i'll give it a go

Car feels good when spooling up but as soon as it gets over about 2500rpm feels like there is nothing left at all just revs so to speak. Took the car for a spin up my road from 0 - 110 and i was quite dissapointed with how long it did take. Just seems to go real good down low but runs out of puff very easily i know it makes it tourqe etc down low but i feel after say 2500rpm not much at all.

Once again thanks for ya help and all your advice is great i just got my hopes thinking i would get a bit more hp ..

Only other thing is that becuase i have been driving my brothers car around for like the last 4 weeks which is manual v6 i think i may have got used to of that power and being so low to the ground makes it feel that little bit faster. Maybe i need to go for a ride in a stock gq and see how i go.

Will post up the data sheet when i get and just whats right and whats not.

Also my inlet temp is 56 degrees is that hot ?


Cheers

Rick.

turbo4.8 wrote:you can never have enough hp. if you want to fit crap to your car it"s up to you, but i think its better to wait a few more weeks save up a little more money and buy some thing only once, so that when you do want to go to that next step (run more boost, ignition timing,) you won't jump up and down and have to buy it again and think that the guy selling it to you is trying to rip you off.
i.v seen plenty of guys put crap on there car and expect it to make good power. it's very unefficiant for the motor and you could hurt it.

The only thing is i have just paid for all this plumbing and stuff and that has added up to be quite expensive and now what do i do with it all ? Throw it away?

If i'm going to do anything to the car from now on i'll be doing it myself as paying someone $60 a hour gets to expensive and on top of that there is buying everything needed.

I'll get a video of in the car of it spooling etc and i post it up here see what u guys reakon.

http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?t=100545

Have a look in that pic do i have to replace all that piping from the throttle body to the turbo ? If i do have to can i reuse any of that becuase no joke they charged me like $450 or more just for that piping then like $150 for that black pipe near the firewall.

I'm not really sure if a intercooler would fit at the front of my car becuase of the air con shit..


Thanks

Rick.

I cant see how you can say it runs out after 2500rpm. From the graph it seems to go up and up from there!!! Your torque doesnt only starts to drop after 3500rpm which i think is great!

I think u have to adjust your boost retarding thingy as it may be retarding too much. How much boost are you runing?? It may just be too low. Surly you can run 10psi without an intercooler (without that pod filter of course)

$450 seems quite a lot for the minimal amount of piping you have. I have just starting buying my piping and i'm hoping to keep it very low and do it myself...but the small things do add up.

I think there is a heap of room for improvement and i wouldnt be getting upset at this stage. Take it somewhere that knows what they are doing

Jimmy

By the way there is a water to air intercooler for sale on this forum in qld. Look into it....a lot less stuffing around with piping.

Thanks mate i think i got upset last night becuase it cost me WAY MORE then what he said it would and just was a little dissapointed.

Sent u a pm anyway jimbo

Will post up a graph and should be later on tonight ..

Also gimbo u got MSN?


Rick.

Tell me what u guys think ?


Rick.

Well there's your problem!!!

Your making 5psi at 2000rpm which is great then it takes nearly another 1000rpm to move it up to 7psi and then anoher 600rpm to get to 8psi.

That could be caused by a wastegate that is opening too early (kind off) You want it to stay shut as long as possible and then when it hits 8psi open alll at once.

Also they ahve you rich down low and lean up top. I always thought u should be richer up top under boost. I'm sure some ppl on here could answer that one.


Jimmy

Actually the reverse too lean down low. Should be 13.5 or lower at low speed. If it was richer at 1800rpm (lower numbers) boost would climb faster.

it is richer up top

Not enough LPG ol mate, ya need the 480 cfm gas research carby and twin B2 converters to get more power than about 220hp according to the guys at gas research, when i spoke with them a while back anyway.

4wd monthly issue no 56 had an article on adam birds comp gq and it was running twin converters and Gas Researh carby and was producing 220rwkw

An article in street (fords forced induction handbook) has an old tech push rod 250cid six, with twin B2 converters a 480cfm Gas research carby which has about a 68mm throat, and a Garrett GT 40 550hp turbo and it has 380rwkw. Talk to Gas Research about your setup and maybe they can recomend a good lpg tuner.

good luck

Tuflux308 wrote:My mate had pretty much the same set up as you but he had a intercooler. It was only a cheap one, he also had standard ignition and it made 175rwkw on 36" simexs
You should be getting more power

Tufflux would u mind getting like what type of turbo etc his using? Do you have a dyno sheet or anything to maybe show when his making boost and all his different stats etc.

Thanks guys for ya replys !!

Changing my throttle body size to a bigger size just means a differnt shaft or something doesn't it ? I don't have to buy another complete throttle body do i?

With twin converters do i need to buy just another converter and that's it ?


Kinda over spending money at the moment becuase i wanted to the car to be right after spending all my money not right after another like $2000 spent. I just wounder what i can fix with minmal cost to get what i want becuase i thought for a 4.2L six then whacking a To4e turbo on it would hammer but really goes better but doesn't blow me away like i thought it should have.


Thanks for any help!

Rick.

You want the cheapest way to make your car seem really fast and powerful ?











































Go take a stock GQ for a drive

Also your coil is too close to turbo. Becomes less efficient with heat. Least of your probs but an easy fix all the same.

look through some of your old posts dude... there has been alot of info that is being repeated! and also some cheap easy fixes on questions you are asking again and again but worded differently.

hot air = trouble

cool air = you can run more advance = nicer power

you have the power, just not a nice smooth curve that makes it "feel" powerfull, for a stock motor with essentialy a bolt on kit 200hp is definatly good!

search some of the ricer forums toymods/sr20/silvia/lextreme etc. They wont have info regarding your motor specifically but they do have weeks worth of reading on intake temps vs boost vs fuel vs igntn

remember no knowledge can be more dangerous than little knowledge too!!!

Simon

Also remember that the 220rwkw engines in comp cars are built engines, with big $$ and or time thrown at them, with big efficient intercoolers etc.
A Turbo'ed Patrol is never going to keep up with the ricers, but it will keep up with the everyday cars.
Maybe you should go for a drive in a stocky one, they couldn't pull a sailor of your sister.

I can't get any of the dyno sheets because he sold the car and gave the guy them.
Im not too sure on the manifold but it was just a cast low mount, the turbo it had was a denco which he pulled off his TD42. The intercooler was from arb, i think they sell it as a safari kit of somthing but it was only about $250 and it had a gas research carb with one B2 converter which had heavy springs in it.
It got tuned by a bloke who worked at gas research for years so he knew what he was doing

Tuflux how much boost was he running?

cheers

11 psi

I’ve got a TB42 straight gas turbo im just using my brothers username thing cos i couldn't be bothered joining up.




hope the pics work
B2 converter, Gas research carb Garrett T4 with .91A/R exaust housing.
made all the pipeing and manifold myself
Makes 2psi at 1800 and 10psi at 2500, i havn't had it tuned yet but on a damp road it will light up 36's in third doing about 70
It goes good but really takes off when it gets to about 2200 rpm

Running 11 psi with no pinging on stock ignition is pretty decent.

How much did they retard yours mulisha with the msd?

I was just going to get my dissy regraphed if i have problems. I think it around $180 - $200. Any one shed any light on that?

cheers

and i threaded some bolts in the the external wastgate so the g clamps are doing the job for now haha

Different Dyno's give differnet readings, some are "Happier" than others. I have seen at least 20hp between different dyno brands, and even variation between different Dyno Dynamics dyno's.

Mulisha wrote:Thanks mate i think i got upset last night becuase it cost me WAY MORE then what he said it would and just was a little dissapointed.

Sent u a pm anyway jimbo

Will post up a graph and should be later on tonight ..

Also gimbo u got MSN?


Rick.

was that chapmans?

still learning about this game...

what's the "lambda lpg" comloumn for?

yah he had it all done at chapmans. Ive only ever heard good things of them but zero personal experience