Outer Limits 4x4 Board

adam penfold wrote:

Madmac wrote:

adam penfold wrote:

do those coopers measure 35, they dont look that big in the pic, and correct me if im wrong, but i can see a shiny bit under the rear where the tyre has rubbed. my simexs only measure 34 and a bit and they just touch on the very back of the wheel arch. your rear is flexin ok, but your front doesnt look like its moving much

hey mate they mesure 36's.and thats were weve grinded a lip iff in the guard were we bent it wif 37's

i call bullshit, they dont even look close to 36 inch diameter, feel free to post up a pic of yourself holding a tape measure next to them.

no mine hasnt had a gaurd chop. just the rear lip adjusted with a fbh.
it rubs all the way round as it sits and the rear is 4 inches off the bumpstops at full up travel (tyre into gaurds),

it actually rubs the inside corner of the tyre up the inside of the arch and the outer side wall on the gaurd lip.

Mine are 37's (but only measure 36 inch!) and rub like a bastard on the inner guard. You can just see on this shot the silver streaks. I tend to agree with Madmac re bullsh1t.

Nelso,
what suspension mods are you running? (coils, shock length)

4 inch Dobinson springs retained in rear, with 2 inch body lift. Shocks are ranchos but can't remember model or exact specs. The rear are the second longest eye to eye model they make (I think 28 inches extended), and the fronts are the longest pin to eye ones they make.

from memory that would make the shocks ; front 640mm rear 790mm

Thanks for the info. Is it worth longer shocks if they need retaining, as there would be no downward pressure on that wheel at full travel I would have thought.
Reason I ask is that I am using the same Pro Comp shocks I ran with my 3" Dobinson coils, but now have 4" EFS, so would like to go longer, but the next length would need retaining.
Did you extend the front shock mounts for those shocks?

Sorry about the hijacking



Cheers,
Dave

KIWI wrote:Thanks for the info. Is it worth longer shocks if they need retaining, as there would be no downward pressure on that wheel at full travel I would have thought.
Reason I ask is that I am using the same Pro Comp shocks I ran with my 3" Dobinson coils, but now have 4" EFS, so would like to go longer, but the next length would need retaining.
Did you extend the front shock mounts for those shocks?

Sorry about the hijacking



Cheers,
Dave

A truck with properly retained springs will always be heaps more stable that one that that the diffs just flap about with no load from a spring. It will also be a much more predictable ride over the ruff stuff too. When i say retained i mead fixed top and bottom not with cones or guides so the spring comes away from its mount.
Also if your tuck is properly bump-stoped you will get heaps more pressure on the down travel side. The only downward pressure you will get on a non-retained truck is half the weight of the diff and the wieght of the tyre. Here is a pic of mine with proper rate springs and retained.

and yes i have plenty of up travel

if springs are retained top and bottom when they flex down all it does is stretch the coil past its elastisity point n destroy the grain in the steel, also the only weight on the ground is whats left of the tyre n diff less whats being pulled back up of the spring
you have to think what has more drive a wheel with weight tranfered from the other side of the diff with no spring pressure on the groung or a wheel with retained springs with spring pressure in the air

nastytroll wrote:if springs are retained top and bottom when they flex down all it does is stretch the coil past its elastisity point n destroy the grain in the steel, also the only weight on the ground is whats left of the tyre n diff less whats being pulled back up of the spring
you have to think what has more drive a wheel with weight tranfered from the other side of the diff with no spring pressure on the groung or a wheel with retained springs with spring pressure in the air

But if it is properly bumpstoped the diff will act like a lever and force the other side down creating even more preassure on the tyre giving more traction on the down travel side

thats right so you are still beter off running coil locators n longer shocks then clamping the spring top n bottum to get better coil life

Not retaining the coil can let the vehicle "flop" round at the end of its travel, which can lead to some spooky feelings on big side hills. The extra droop from not retaining the springs is, as Jake said, not really assisting, as there is no down force on the wheel. When it comes to it, what do you want, poser flex, or stability to drive hard lines?

Layto....

as the wheel is still attatched to the shock the shock slows the weight shift adding stability with a wheel in the air there is nothing slowing weight shift so the vehicle will accelerate as it falls causing it to drop onto its side, maybe some poeple would like to do some research into coilovers to see what happens to single rate coilovers with long travel when the coil comes loose on the shaft, there are pictures of Peter,s 40s cruiser at TT2 with his coils hanging with a big gap to the seat
The principal has worked on all the comp rigs Ive set up and they have all done well

the only thing you achieve by retaining your coils is you will lift the wheel of the ground sooner which doesnt add one ounce of stability

rvh96 wrote:the only thing you achieve by retaining your coils is you will lift the wheel of the ground sooner which doesnt add one ounce of stability

i agree with this, and the way i figure it is even a wheel touching the ground with no downward force from the spring will offer more traction than a wheel thats not touching the ground

[quote="adam penfold"]

As I said you have nothing in the front. Not very balanced at all.

hey zook60 we worked out that we need the guard chop on the front due to the wheel smacks the front guard.p.s it flex's well enough for a tourer. so next week guard chop :O.how much do u recomend all round.this only occurs when turning

Nelso wrote:4 inch Dobinson springs retained in rear, with 2 inch body lift. Shocks are ranchos but can't remember model or exact specs. The rear are the second longest eye to eye model they make (I think 28 inches extended), and the fronts are the longest pin to eye ones they make.

hows those sidewalls? i missed out on that appin trip the other nite so i couldnt ask ya

adam penfold wrote:hey zook60 we worked out that we need the guard chop on the front due to the wheel smacks the front guard.p.s it flex's well enough for a tourer. so next week guard chop :O.how much do u recomend all round.this only occurs when turning

have you considered fitting radius arm spacers, they are a cheap and easy way to push the front diff forward 10mm

i should aye.were only doing the cut coz its cheap.and ill get some photo's of the front flexing.its only a tourer dnt forget.were also thinking of doing castor correction plates

adam penfold wrote:i should aye.were only doing the cut coz its cheap.and ill get some photo's of the front flexing.its only a tourer dnt forget.were also thinking of doing castor correction plates

if your doing castor plates, you might aswell do radius arm spacers at the same time, they cost $50 at BBM, but if you know someone with a metal lathe you could get them to make them for you

adam penfold wrote:hey zook60 we worked out that we need the guard chop on the front due to the wheel smacks the front guard.p.s it flex's well enough for a tourer. so next week guard chop :O.how much do u recomend all round.this only occurs when turning

Why bother doing a guard chop. Just buy the BBM spacers 50 bucks and be done with it. To go to the time and effort to chop guards with the amount of lift you already have is unnecessary.
The castor corection bushs will be stoping the front flex aswell.
Have you though about drop box's?
Also you saying keep we this and we that who’s car is this ? you dads?

dads and mine project car.he wanted 2 no about te stuff i asked

rvh96 wrote:the only thing you achieve by retaining your coils is you will lift the wheel of the ground sooner which doesnt add one ounce of stability

... yeah and you will go further before flopping with properly retained coils than with out ....as you are relying on the extra weight of the axle to help with cog issues ...........it makes the rig more predictable as you can more accuratley feel when its getting light (weight wise) on what ever side is either flexing or if side angles are apparent .......

but hey everyone has there opinions hey .....I didnt get that far up the travel ramp in my Vit at TT due to the retained coils ......but heck I didnt build it to ramp everything for poser shots yes with them unretained I would of got further but for normal wheeling its just not as practical.......it works well and is balanced front to rear and that's the main thing that some people cant figure out ....


HeY JAKE nice poor mans five link pics ......

Flex with retained coils ....in my old Rig


And typical un balanced flex from a radius arm front



My Vit

A1 wrote:

rvh96 wrote:the only thing you achieve by retaining your coils is you will lift the wheel of the ground sooner which doesnt add one ounce of stability

... yeah and you will go further before flopping with properly retained coils than with out ....as you are relying on the extra weight of the axle to help with cog issues ...........it makes the rig more predictable as you can more accuratley feel when its getting light (weight wise) on what ever side is either flexing or if side angles are apparent .......

but hey everyone has there opinions hey .....I didnt get that far up the travel ramp in my Vit at TT due to the retained coils ......but heck I didnt build it to ramp everything for poser shots yes with them unretained I would of got further but for normal wheeling its just not as practical.......it works well and is balanced front to rear and that's the main thing that some people cant figure out ....


HeY JAKE nice poor mans five link pics ......

Flex with retained coils ....in my old Rig


And typical un balanced flex from a radius arm front



My Vit

But you have retained coils dan, therefore your your VIT and your old Mav were unstable carp.

Layto....

lay80n wrote:

But you have retained coils dan, therefore your your VIT and your old Mav were unstable carp.

Layto....

So they where a unstable dirty fish.

Layto....[/quote]

So they where a unstable dirty fish.[/quote]

Sounds like it..

turps wrote:

lay80n wrote:

But you have retained coils dan, therefore your your VIT and your old Mav were unstable carp.

Layto....

So they where a unstable dirty fish.

(we need a sarcasm emoticon, as Dans rigs are/were very capable and stable )
Layto....

j-top paj wrote:

Nelso wrote:4 inch Dobinson springs retained in rear, with 2 inch body lift. Shocks are ranchos but can't remember model or exact specs. The rear are the second longest eye to eye model they make (I think 28 inches extended), and the fronts are the longest pin to eye ones they make.

hows those sidewalls? i missed out on that appin trip the other nite so i couldnt ask ya

The cuts didn't go into the carcass, just the tread, so they are hanging in there. I took a 4 pounder to the body where it was cutting them so it only rubs against smooth stuff now.