Outer Limits 4x4 Board

So why not just use a body lift block thats threaded to suit the captive bolt one end and run a bolt up friom the other end?

Have done that on my last 3 cars.

Great idea if the bolt was threaded the whole way up. It is only threaded at the end with the main shaft of the bolt thicker like a crush slieve on a typical body lift. You would still have to use the original upper and lower rubber blocks then attach the threaded block and bolt it at the other end to the chassis. The lift would end up 3 or 4 inches !! The only way would involve engineering new bolts or modifying pre engineered lift blocks.

Peter

Here's some drawings for a Vitara body lift. The bolt is internally threaded to suit the captive bolts in the body.

cityview wrote:I dont know about Vitara , but all the sierras I have had you can undo the nut and remove the lot , nut washer and bolt , Yes the Jimny has got captive bolts , well described.

All 6 body bolts under the cab of a 1.3 sierras are captive, same for vitara. 1.0 sierras have four captive bolts in the cab area, the ones beside the trans tunnel are through bolts like the two front and two rearmost bolts.

The captive bolts aren't threaded all the way up, which is why the socket bolt BL's replace the crush tube that sits through the rubbers with a socket bolts and the 2" spacer sits between the body and the stock rubbers in stock configuration. The only "modification" is that the bottom washer (that sits next to the nut) has to be drilled to 16mm OD, the same as the crush sleeve.

I would never have gone to the trouble of making about 14 sets of socket bolts for various suzukis as posted by CJ if I could easily pull the bolts.

I really can't see how socket bolts or a similar alternative can be used for a jimny - it works for every other suzuki which all use captive bolts somewhere.

What you are describing (and what I have seen from the guys who have pulled 3" bls here in vic) is effecively the same as a vit or sierra, so this will still work.

It costs me about $100 to make a BL for a sierra with socket bolts, and about $150 for a vitara, a lathe and about 2 hours.

I don't have a jimny FSM, can someone please post a photo of a jimny body mount or the right page from the FSM to show the arrangement? It just sounds the same as sierra/vit to me.

(yes, I know the diameters of the blocks, lengths of stud and appearance changes between models, but the same priniciple works on all suzuki's I have seen)

Steve.

PS cityview - reread my posts - I never, ever, said you had 2nd hand brake lines, only that a stacked rubber BL reflects the same kind of mentality as using second hand brake lines. Drew muddied the water here by firing up about the second hand brake line thing.

I would never have gone to the trouble of making about 14 sets of socket bolts for various suzukis as posted by CJ if I could easily pull the bolts.

Not that it really matters , I cant find that post above.

Are you seeing the Cad drawings from Zuwharrie?

The bolts (the top drawing) are what I have been making, except that I use 16mm diameter bolts as this is the same diameter as the factory sierra crush sleeve.

Vitaras use plastic sleeves rather than steel crush sleeves but these pop out from the rubber and the 16mm socket bolt installs as per a sierra.

I've done 1.6 vit, 2.0V6 and 2.0 4cyl vits this way and while they are all a bit different the same bolt works.

Steve.

Ok , so what you are saying is that over the captive bolt you slide the original rubber mount then an alloy 2" spacer then the socket bolt to the thread then another rubber block above the chassis mount then another below the chassis mount and the steel washer then the bolt up through and tightened into the socket bolt threaded part. I so wish I could draw this to get my thoughts accross. That would give more than a 2" lift on a Jimny or without the lower rubber components the fixture would be rigid and subject to stress fractures either at the chassis mount or where the captured bolt is fixed to the body. Hmmm

$100 - $150 hey , well 2-3 years ago when I reaserched mine I was sold nylon blocks with steel crush sleaves for $60 each and told it works for a sierra so it should for a Jimny. It did not. I tried a company in Vic , a few in NSW , I believe including a place where a popular RED Jimny was prepared and everywhere here in QLD. No-one knew anything at the time. So I started thinking for myself. This is what I came up with and its still going strong in 2 vehicles using the original parts at very little cost. Its probably only a 1+1/2 inch lift but it works for me.

As for re-reading your 1st reply regarding brake lines , I have several times , your attitude was , because you did something you dont agree with then you must have shit components all over your car. I took offence. My car is relatively standard and is great to wheel. It works , its safe and it works well for what I use it. If I were to put it back on the road I would replace some things ie the shocks and remove the spring spacers , but the body lift would stay as I dont see much difference between it and the stacked system you have described. At least mine has got the original length of the bolt and the original nut holding the body to the chassis not a bolt threaded on the end of a stud with another bolt tacked into it to get a body lift. I think I agree with one of your earlier comments , maybe if it seems too hard , maybe it shouldnt be done.

Peter

Not quite, the alloy spacer is mounted flush to the body and all stock rubbers are in exactly their stock configuration.

This might contribute to stress cracking of the body but none has been observed even in the first car I did which was about 8 years ago. In any case, in Suzukis it seems that the chassis crack before the body which is part of the reason why body blocks have grown in diameter over the years to spread the load. (making the cost of BL's dearer because of the alloy cost - there is over $100 in alloy in a vitara BL)

I sikaflex the block to the body to damp shocks.

Here is a section drawing of the socket bolt BL for a sierra but the principle is the same for any car with any sort of sleeve through the rubber. Here you can see the arrangement of the parts. ( I have a full scale drawing for a vitara and sierra but can't put my finger on them - sorry for the crap pic, don't have a scanner)



It is not to scale and really from memory only so use it as a guide for the arrangement of parts only.

I understand why you took offence at my dig in relation to brake lines - I take body lifts very seriously and most people take their brakes seriously. I have battled for a long time to get people to recognise that new replacement brake lines are available and cheap. As I said, I have actually seen a car loose its steering whilst climbing a hill due to a body lift failure so I will arc up if I hear dubious practice being posted. Likewise I have seen workshop fitted second hand brake lines fail. Either failure is just as serious.

I am aware that your lift uses stock nuts and the stock bolt but IMHO both the original support and stiffness and rebound support of the body may be compromised in your design.

I accept that your design will reduce the risk of stress cracking the body, but I feel mine reduces the risk of stress cracking the chassis, a known problem- I have welded up quite few cracked sierra chassis at body mounts, but the bodies seem to wear under the rubbers but not crack.

I am no machinist or engineer, but a few cars have been certed by different engineers with this design and it has never given any problems on many different vehicles in many 000's of km.

I know that suzuki owners are notoriously tightar$ed, but I get totally over the "cheap solutions" when it seems to be 90% of the tech that is posted. It appears to be uncool to build a car with correctly applied or manufactured parts.


Steve.

Guys,

I manfacture a Body Lift kit for Sierras and soon to be Vitaras. I get these female captive bolts manufacture from high tensile bolts, anything else should not be approved, and together with 10 HDPE blocks and the other required bolts, all high tensile, sells for $200 including postage. Assembly is the same as Steve has drawn, I have a cad drawing of this which I'll post when I get home.

I would be only too happy to make a kit to suit the Jimny once I get the required information.

Greg

Well that was easy just cruizin'. That's all we needed at the start to stop all this bull shite back stabbing and criticising banter. After all.....aren't we here to help each other with resourcefull info or are we here just to give each other the shits? If there are so many so called parts suppliers on this site then why couldn't a productive solution be talked about earlier.

Well done just cruizin. I'll wait for your new product with baited breath.

Ahhhh...that's better.

I was enjoying the show.

No, really I haven't even seen a Jimny underneath so I didn't want to jump in until I knew what was involved. Both these guys are alot more experienced then me and I've learnt if you don't know don't shoot your month off.

I know ppl will jump in and say they can make them cheaper then $200 but do they use High Tensile bolts and are they tested. I have had my Sierra ones tested by a NATA approved test centre to International Standards and will do so on any variations I get made.

Greg

Thanks Just Cruising.

I look forward to your thoughts about the Jimny lift. I especially am interested in how to overcome the body and chassis mounts as they are tapered to captulate the rubber blocks hence why I used the original blocks over nylon after market ones with a steel crush sleeve. At the body imagine a shallow cup upside down with a rounded rubber block fitting snuggly into it. Its not squared off as in Steves hand drawings. The bottom of that rubber is reduced to fit into the chassis mount the same as the top of the lower rubber block. Male into female if you know what I mean. They are both about an inch thick. Having undone the nut and washer , lifted the body and removed the lower rubber block , I turn the lower block upside down and refit above the chassis mount. The upper rubber block is in its original cupped position , the lower block butts up to the upper on the smooth part of the bolt shaft and the reduced part fits into the cupped chassis mount from above as it would have from below. Then I have added the lwb 1lt sierra 15mm square body block replaced the washer and refitted the original nut and tightened. Gives about a 1 to 1+1/2" lift over standard. The front two body and chassis mounts allow for a 2" body block and crush sleeve as the bolt is removeable. So actually the rear is lower than the front , but i have packed the rear springs by 1/2" to compensate. A taller body lift would require a longer steering shaft and longer brake connecters fron the body to the chassis at the brake booster. By repositioning the LH front upper brake line mount position in the inner guard , the original brake line can be used with 3" spring and 2" body lift. Doing similar to the RH rear brahe line where it drops to the live axle releaves any stressing again of the original brake line.

I am keen to see what you come up with to overcome the cupped mounts on the Jimny especially at the upper most point of the bolt where its attached to the body.

Cheers

Peter

sorry all ,
i fired up because i saw what pete had written in reguards to what he had done & then get critisized for it.
(gives me the sh--'s when people get on their high horse belittleing others)i should have ignored the brakeline comment.

i have met pete,(top bloke). seen his jimny offroad pre bodylift,the suspension worked very well.

here we are a page later & that suspension tech seems to be forgotten or the idea discounted.because its cheap doesn't make it any less capable.

for what i have spent on parts alone for building & replacing broken stuff on a sierra in last 5 years i probably could have bought a new jimny .

it seemed to be more fun when it was cheap & simple.
our jimny will be staying simple & hopefully cheap

also glad to see some thought going into a jimny bodylift

cheers drew

I got my bodylift done by Snake Racing in Stimpy the Monster Jimny... they were already made up, only needed to supply longer bolts for the front two (bought some uncut thread and bolt ends were made up... can't remember length or diametre though )
Ryan supplies an entire kit if that helps..

Thanks S.M.

When I first saw "Stimpy" I was looking to reproduce similar results with my Jimny. I rang snake racing and they took my no. and never got back to me. When I rang them back they asked what I owned and when told they said , quote , "we dont do anything for a Jimny" This was over 3 years ago now. I rang the place that you got most of your work done , at Illawarra if my memory serves me correct and they said that most of the stuff on your car was custom and explained that maybe Snake racing were still in the development stages with the products. (Please excuse my ignorance if my details are out some , havent been in Syd for 15 years so dont know the local shops.) Any how thanks for the info I may call Snake racing again , I may have got some bad info from the rep I spoke to back then. I am sure more products are available for the mighty Jimny now.

I have heard that you dont have a Stimpy or any Jimny for that matter any more?

Peter

Hey Pete,

Can you draw a brief sketch of the Jimny setup and I'll see what I can do.

Greg

cityview wrote:Thanks S.M.

When I first saw "Stimpy" I was looking to reproduce similar results with my Jimny. I rang snake racing and they took my no. and never got back to me. When I rang them back they asked what I owned and when told they said , quote , "we dont do anything for a Jimny" This was over 3 years ago now. I rang the place that you got most of your work done , at Illawarra if my memory serves me correct and they said that most of the stuff on your car was custom and explained that maybe Snake racing were still in the development stages with the products. (Please excuse my ignorance if my details are out some , havent been in Syd for 15 years so dont know the local shops.) Any how thanks for the info I may call Snake racing again , I may have got some bad info from the rep I spoke to back then. I am sure more products are available for the mighty Jimny now.

I have heard that you dont have a Stimpy or any Jimny for that matter any more?

Peter

Nope... Stimpy went to a new home a few months back.... regretfully

Ok... contact Liam at BBMotorsport... he knew Stimpy pretty well and may be able to help you with a setup.
I gave up on the prementioned workshop a while back...

Hey Pete,

My Jimny has a 2" BL which I purchased OFF the shelf at Suzisport in Brisbane, a few issues with the bolts supplied and the steering rubber but after a bit of 2ing and froing we sorted it for about $200. The steering 20mm spacer rag/block was supplied with bolts and nuts (no nylock) which was a bit doggy but after some thought all is ok.

My brake lines need some extending now after seeing it on a post hoist today, I have never seen them even near tight before so need to fix them ASAP.

Will be at Cityview on Sunday, might need to compare.

Colin

Hey Greg , would draw one for you but cant post it cause i dont use anywhere to host pics. Could email it 4 u.

S.M. so no more Jimny? What r u wheelin now? I will investigate the body lift block options if I decide to put it back on the road , until then I feel its adequite for my purposes , thanks again.

Thanks Colin , damn I will have to get the new diff in ASAP so I can wheel with you on Sun.

Cheers all

Peter