Outer Limits 4x4 Board

no will just be front main with rear assist. offroad only so i will see how it goes

No Tuflux308 I'm not covering my ass there's a good 2" of crack showing all the time.
The first rear engined vehicle I had any thing to do with was a mates older brothers VW beetle with a baha kit and 16" peco stars on it.The old dak dak motor shit it self so he got a kit to fit a Chevy corvair flat six which came with a box of bits to fit to the motor,but he was more interested in fitting the motor than looking at any stupid instructions once the motor was in and he sorted the wiring it was fired up and running good but when the clutch was dropped it smacked into the work bench and tools and beer cans went every where.Once the dust cleared and his old man finally took some interest we looked in the cardboard box found the fitting booklet which talked about different grind cam shafts and timing sets available to rear mount the corvair and have it run the opposite way.
In the early 90's I was in the mud racing in the under 3 litre class and watched one after the other of the V8 class drivers end up building rear mount SWB Landcruisers then the blokes from tassie started coming over to race and one of those fellas had a single cab Hilux and a s/b chev was rear mounted in the ute body.To look at it it just seemed to be pretty standard with a lift except the diff's were on the wrong side and the tarp on the ute tub stopped a foot short of the tail gate and when you looked in the back there was the radiator.






I really shouldnt post stuff up here after I've been at the pub drinking cigarettes and smoking beer because the missus reckons I sound like a dickhead.

goannaoffroad wrote:I really shouldnt post stuff up here after I've been at the pub drinking cigarettes and smoking beer because the missus reckons I sound like a dickhead.

BWAH love it.

goannaoffroad wrote:I will type this slowly as I now realise some of you can't read real fast .
If an engine is rear mounted so that the front of the engine faces the rear of the vehicle the crank shaft still spins the same way ,with me so far?
both the front and rear drive shafts turn in the same direction so both diffs run the same way IT DOESNT MATTER WHICH WAY THE ENGINE FACES
you could mount it side ways and mount right angle drive units off the output flanges it would still move forward in the forward gears and backwards in the reverse gears.
Because the crank only spins one way, same way both ends it doesn't make any difference which way around it is.
Have any of you brain surgeons ever seen a fork lift? Guess what the motor sits backwards and the machine drives forwards.
Seen a big bus(in the trade there known as coaches)?the motors rear mounted.
It also doesn't matter which way the pinion flange points, up, down ,front back or "flipped" in a forward gear it will still drive off the same side of the teeth.
If you were to screw number plates to your vehicle using a cordless drill would you have the drill set on forwards for the front plate then put it in reverse to screw the rear plate on ?????
I could go on but I won't .I don't mind being proven wrong by those that KNOW what there on about but before you rocket scientists shit can someones reply have a good think and base your comments on fact and commonsense NOT BULLSHITE

You have absolutly no idea what you are talking about. Yes i have read the posts after the above reply. Yes i have built Rear engined vehicles. And more than one. Any credability you may have ever had here you lost in the replies in this thread.

goannaoffroad wrote:No Tuflux308 I'm not covering my ass there's a good 2" of crack showing all the time.
The first rear engined vehicle I had any thing to do with was a mates older brothers VW beetle with a baha kit and 16" peco stars on it.The old dak dak motor shit it self so he got a kit to fit a Chevy corvair flat six which came with a box of bits to fit to the motor,but he was more interested in fitting the motor than looking at any stupid instructions once the motor was in and he sorted the wiring it was fired up and running good but when the clutch was dropped it smacked into the work bench and tools and beer cans went every where.Once the dust cleared and his old man finally took some interest we looked in the cardboard box found the fitting booklet which talked about different grind cam shafts and timing sets available to rear mount the corvair and have it run the opposite way.
In the early 90's I was in the mud racing in the under 3 litre class and watched one after the other of the V8 class drivers end up building rear mount SWB Landcruisers then the blokes from tassie started coming over to race and one of those fellas had a single cab Hilux and a s/b chev was rear mounted in the ute body.To look at it it just seemed to be pretty standard with a lift except the diff's were on the wrong side and the tarp on the ute tub stopped a foot short of the tail gate and when you looked in the back there was the radiator.






I really shouldnt post stuff up here after I've been at the pub drinking cigarettes and smoking beer because the missus reckons I sound like a dickhead.

You do not need to build a reverse rotation motor to run it in a VW. The engine still runs the exact same way as any other engine. Again yes i have fitted other engines to VWs. The common conversion in VWs is the WRX motor. And lately has been the Lexus Quad cam V8. In offroad circles anything from Corrolla 3/4K and 4AGE to Nissan Turbo motors and Rotaries are used. None of these have any modifications to the came shafts to allow them to run the opposite way.

RUFF wrote:

goannaoffroad wrote:No Tuflux308 I'm not covering my ass there's a good 2" of crack showing all the time.
The first rear engined vehicle I had any thing to do with was a mates older brothers VW beetle with a baha kit and 16" peco stars on it.The old dak dak motor shit it self so he got a kit to fit a Chevy corvair flat six which came with a box of bits to fit to the motor,but he was more interested in fitting the motor than looking at any stupid instructions once the motor was in and he sorted the wiring it was fired up and running good but when the clutch was dropped it smacked into the work bench and tools and beer cans went every where.Once the dust cleared and his old man finally took some interest we looked in the cardboard box found the fitting booklet which talked about different grind cam shafts and timing sets available to rear mount the corvair and have it run the opposite way.
In the early 90's I was in the mud racing in the under 3 litre class and watched one after the other of the V8 class drivers end up building rear mount SWB Landcruisers then the blokes from tassie started coming over to race and one of those fellas had a single cab Hilux and a s/b chev was rear mounted in the ute body.To look at it it just seemed to be pretty standard with a lift except the diff's were on the wrong side and the tarp on the ute tub stopped a foot short of the tail gate and when you looked in the back there was the radiator.






I really shouldnt post stuff up here after I've been at the pub drinking cigarettes and smoking beer because the missus reckons I sound like a dickhead.

You do not need to build a reverse rotation motor to run it in a VW. The engine still runs the exact same way as any other engine. Again yes i have fitted other engines to VWs. The common conversion in VWs is the WRX motor. And lately has been the Lexus Quad cam V8. In offroad circles anything from Corrolla 3/4K and 4AGE to Nissan Turbo motors and Rotaries are used. None of these have any modifications to the came shafts to allow them to run the opposite way.

come on tony, rear facing engines need a custom grind cam to help turn the crank in the opposite direction

VWs run a transaxle dont they, same as porshe? which the diff/gearbox changes rotation no matter what engine or camshaft you run... im pretty sure wills dads 40 runs the porshe box but not certain. it comes off the windsor which faces forward, sticks back nearly out the back and shifter linkages forward to the front. when the proshes run the engine facing rear and the linkaes still go to the front but the engine is behind the axle. right???


anyway back on topic, good luck, it will be an awsome looking car. will feel so weird to drive too, but lots of room for twin turbos (drool)

RUFF wrote: The common conversion in VWs is the WRX motor. And lately has been the Lexus Quad cam V8. In offroad circles anything from Corrolla 3/4K and 4AGE to Nissan Turbo motors and Rotaries are used. None of these have any modifications to the came shafts to allow them to run the opposite way.

How the hell do you get engines to run in reverse rotation without camshaft modifactions? you change the inlets to outlets or something ? and have the new inlets coming through the exhaust ports?

I know 2 stoke diesels can run forward and backwards, thats how the maneuver ships. But a 4 stoke ??

Doods....look at it this way.....putting the motor in the back is like doing a u turn with the 4b and turning the seat around 180 aswell...so now your looking out the back window and you have 5 reverses and one forward....
if you choose to prove this the old fashioned way, the driveshafts turns clockwise looking from the front of the motor when going forward. To make them go backward, a reverse gear is needed, as the motor still turns clockwise....now looking from the back of thesame motor...it turns anticlockwise....so reverse gear will have the shafts turning clockwise (going forward remember).....thats where your getting ass about...taking the drive from the wrong end of the motor will make you go backwards...
A foreman at work put a 2 litre escort motor in his shooting buggy, using a dac dac frame and running gear. He mid mounted it....what he had to do is flip the diff ring to the opposite side of the pinion...then it had 4 forward gears again.....

hulsty wrote:

RUFF wrote: The common conversion in VWs is the WRX motor. And lately has been the Lexus Quad cam V8. In offroad circles anything from Corrolla 3/4K and 4AGE to Nissan Turbo motors and Rotaries are used. None of these have any modifications to the came shafts to allow them to run the opposite way.

How the hell do you get engines to run in reverse rotation without camshaft modifactions? you change the inlets to outlets or something ? and have the new inlets coming through the exhaust ports?

I know 2 stoke diesels can run forward and backwards, thats how the maneuver ships. But a 4 stoke ??

They dont run in reverse without camshaft,oil pump,distributor,waterpump and alternator mods. The point is a VW motor runs the same way a Commodore motor runs. The reason it still has 4 forward gears and one reverse with the motor in the back is because it has a transaxle designed to suit.

Transfer case has tailshafts spinning in opposite directions????, thus if its rear mounted, am think that yes foward gears are still foward. i think thats what goannaoffroad is getting at??? seeing as though it will become front driven, rather than rear?? correct me if i am wrong.. same side of pinion, means same directional drive.

Tuflux308 wrote:Transfer case has tailshafts spinning in opposite directions????, thus if its rear mounted, am think that yes foward gears are still foward. i think thats what goannaoffroad is getting at??? seeing as though it will become front driven, rather than rear?? correct me if i am wrong.. same side of pinion, means same directional drive.

No.

When looking from the back of the vehicle both front and rear shafts spin clockwise, hence when the engine/box/case is turned around, looking from the back of the vehicle the shafts are now spinning anti-clockwise. With the diffs in the stock position, what were once forward gears are now reverse gears.

Hope that helps

Im with RUFF on this one......


.....let him build it and learn the hard way!

Gribble wrote:Im with RUFF on this one......


.....let him build it and learn the hard way!

++++ He'll win the backwards hill climb mind you it'll be the only one in that category

RUFF wrote:You do not need to build a reverse rotation motor to run it in a VW. The engine still runs the exact same way as any other engine. Again yes i have fitted other engines to VWs. The common conversion in VWs is the WRX motor. And lately has been the Lexus Quad cam V8. In offroad circles anything from Corrolla 3/4K and 4AGE to Nissan Turbo motors and Rotaries are used. None of these have any modifications to the came shafts to allow them to run the opposite way.

NOPE !!! I know it doesn't seem to happen to often but RUFF you are wrong...

You will find that the corvair engine actually runs backwards to most engines and does actually need a reverse cam and gears to alter the rotation of the crank so that it can be installed on a VW transaxle.

This is due to the engine though and not the fact it is in the rear of the VW. You would have to do the same thing if you mounted the corvair engine in a Toyota, Subaru, Holden, Ford etc etc, the damn corvair was just different.

Subaru and Toyota engines rotate the same way as VW's so they need no modifications

Brad wrote:

RUFF wrote:You do not need to build a reverse rotation motor to run it in a VW. The engine still runs the exact same way as any other engine. Again yes i have fitted other engines to VWs. The common conversion in VWs is the WRX motor. And lately has been the Lexus Quad cam V8. In offroad circles anything from Corrolla 3/4K and 4AGE to Nissan Turbo motors and Rotaries are used. None of these have any modifications to the came shafts to allow them to run the opposite way.

NOPE !!! I know it doesn't seem to happen to often but RUFF you are wrong...

You will find that the corvair engine actually runs backwards to most engines and does actually need a reverse cam and gears to alter the rotation of the crank so that it can be installed on a VW transaxle.

This is due to the engine though and not the fact it is in the rear of the VW. You would have to do the same thing if you mounted the corvair engine in a Toyota, Subaru, Holden, Ford etc etc, the damn corvair was just different.

Subaru and Toyota engines rotate the same way as VW's so they need no modifications

Thanks. I have no knowledge of the Corvair engine. And anyway i wasnt wrong. I did say you do not have to build a reverse rotation engine to run it in a VW. And obviosly now you pointed it out the Corvair engine is a reverse rotation engine. So i was right as i never mentioned the Corvair engine. But again thanks for pointing out that the Corvair is a Reverse rotation engine from factory.

this thread rocks!
funniest i have read for ages

build the hilux! i wanna see it.

Roctoy Designfab wrote:this thread rocks!
funniest i have read for ages

build the hilux! i wanna see it.

The guy building the Hilux is smart enough to know what needs to be done. Its only some of the replies that are rediculous.

RUFF wrote:The guy building the Hilux is smart enough to know what needs to be done. Its only some of the replies that are rediculous.

Thnaks RUFF i was wondering wether those last few posts were aimed at me or someone else.

the build will start the end of this year, will use the mean time to collect parts.

i have :

1x 2nd gen xtra cab hilux '84
2x 1uz-fe complete
1X 3rd gen cab
1x ifs box and cross over steering
1x welder
4x grinders
1x oxy

i need:

4x airshocks 16"
5x 38" - 42" TSL's or creepy's
1x H260 rear diff 4.8
2x 30 spline long's, long side axles (front)

Tomolux wrote:

RUFF wrote:The guy building the Hilux is smart enough to know what needs to be done. Its only some of the replies that are rediculous.

Thnaks RUFF i was wondering wether those last few posts were aimed at me or someone else.

the build will start the end of this year, will use the mean time to collect parts.

i have :

1x 2nd gen xtra cab hilux '84
2x 1uz-fe complete
1X 3rd gen cab
1x ifs box and cross over steering
1x welder
4x grinders
1x oxy

i need:

4x airshocks 16"
5x 38" - 42" TSL's or creepy's
1x H260 rear diff 4.8
2x 30 spline long's, long side axles (front)

there are some airshocks for sale in misc at the moment.

...it won't go forward or backwards, it will just tear in half when you try to take off.
..right?

All in all it seems like alot of effort to go to. I would have though it would be easier to make up a custom frame. Surely the only chassis mounts you could retain are engine/box mounts and maybe a few spring mounts?

dogbreath_48 wrote:...it won't go forward or backwards, it will just tear in half when you try to take off.
..right?

All in all it seems like alot of effort to go to. I would have though it would be easier to make up a custom frame. Surely the only chassis mounts you could retain are engine/box mounts and maybe a few spring mounts?

well.

motor/box mounts: custom
spring mounts: link susp, custom

so no the only thing the chassis is for would be holding the body on.

will see what happens from now till december.

yes i saw those racerunner shocks, but i spent all my $$$ on bike stuff.

i did a few quick pics to get an idea of the look

wanna see it the talks done now do it

Roctoy Designfab wrote:

Tomolux wrote:

RUFF wrote:The guy building the Hilux is smart enough to know what needs to be done. Its only some of the replies that are rediculous.

Thnaks RUFF i was wondering wether those last few posts were aimed at me or someone else.

the build will start the end of this year, will use the mean time to collect parts.

i have :

1x 2nd gen xtra cab hilux '84
2x 1uz-fe complete
1X 3rd gen cab
1x ifs box and cross over steering
1x welder
4x grinders
1x oxy

i need:

4x airshocks 16"
5x 38" - 42" TSL's or creepy's
1x H260 rear diff 4.8
2x 30 spline long's, long side axles (front)

there are some airshocks for sale in misc at the moment.

THERE WAS SOME also in drivetrain .......well I now have them ................ A1 version 2010 completion has started LOL

here you go.....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=555900

I don't really want to play any more now that I'm under the microscope but I'll put the flame suit on and hopefully not upset any one.The direction of travel is governed by which side of the diffs pinion the crown wheel is on not the rotation of the engine.If I had of realised how much confusion and anger the first few replies were going to cause I'd never have posted them jeez I was only kidding, now Ruff has taken my"credibility" and kicked seven colours of shite out of it
In my defence I never talked about fitting any other engine to the Baha Bug other than a Chevy Corvair which DOES have to be modified to run the other way in this vehicle.Over the last 25 years I have built three shooting buggies of my own and two others for mates using Toyota 4's and VW trans axles I've also fitted numerous engines to forklifts and earth moving gear and worked on a few different mud racers both front and rear engined and hundreds of four and two wheel drives etc and yes when Ive finished they move in the intended direction.
If any ones bothered to read all this I will honestly say it's very easy to be taken the wrong way when talking via a computer if I wasn't gun shy when the Surf Nazis were after me I bloody well am now.

It's just like when I do something silly that upsets the good lady wife the more I say the worse it gets.

i have some upside down valves for the 1uz and a reverse supercharger for sale, only reversed by old lady to shops on weekends!

!!seon ho !!yaw gnorw eht nups sah daeh ym won ,daerht elohw siht dootsrednu dna daer evah i

well spin ya head back 'round

It's 3.30 in the morning I'm pissed and bored . HEY RUFF WANNA FIGHT !!