Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ok heres mine; (lol dont laugh too hard )





hpoefully painted black with a 45deg bend as the end it willl look marginally better.

Heh, I reckon it looks alright. Black will be better, and the 90 deg bend actually looks perfectly okay imho.

I reckon if you etch prime it and then use a good high gloss black it will be hard to even tell that it's just PVC.

Functional and ShortyIQ hot imo..

Piece of art even

The fusion of hilux with 1970's Dr. Who and lost in space.

KiwiBacon wrote:
Better fuel economy by bolting 2m of convoluted piping to your intake?

im glad ur laughing, cause u obviously have no idea about basic volumetric efficiency

there are 2 reasons fuel economy improves;
1: ramflo effect, air is forced harder into the intake, forcing more air into cylinders resulting in a bigger "bang" and hence more power/less fuel burned. its the same principal as a turbo, but with alot lower air pressure.

2: cold air feed, cooler air is picked up from above the car rather than hot air from the engine bay. resulting in a denser air entering the cylinders, more expansion on combustion and more power/less fuel burned.

so thanks for laughing at my response, maybe you should join a honda forum?

vanbox - your snorkels look sick, job well done.

changaz wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:
Better fuel economy by bolting 2m of convoluted piping to your intake?

im glad ur laughing, cause u obviously have no idea about basic volumetric efficiency

there are 2 reasons fuel economy improves;
1: ramflo effect, air is forced harder into the intake, forcing more air into cylinders resulting in a bigger "bang" and hence more power/less fuel burned. its the same principal as a turbo, but with alot lower air pressure.

2: cold air feed, cooler air is picked up from above the car rather than hot air from the engine bay. resulting in a denser air entering the cylinders, more expansion on combustion and more power/less fuel burned.

so thanks for laughing at my response, maybe you should join a honda forum?

No I'm laughing because you're clueless.

Ram air pressure increase at 100km/h (27m/s)
P=1/2density*velocity^2
= 1/2*1.2*27^2
=437 Pa.

That 437 looks like a big number doesn't it.
Well it's not.
The atmospheric pressure is 101,300 Pa
Which means your ram gives you a maximum density increase of 0.43%.

An amount that big is known as "f**k all".

In a petrol engine your best economy is gained from sucking in warm air. Colder air into a throttled engine means more throttling losses which mean worse fuel economy.

I've already said that cold air into a diesel is a good thing. If you want cold air (and the factory hasn't sorted it first) then you don't need to add a 2m long snorkel.

KiwiBacon wrote:

changaz wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:
Better fuel economy by bolting 2m of convoluted piping to your intake?

im glad ur laughing, cause u obviously have no idea about basic volumetric efficiency

there are 2 reasons fuel economy improves;
1: ramflo effect, air is forced harder into the intake, forcing more air into cylinders resulting in a bigger "bang" and hence more power/less fuel burned. its the same principal as a turbo, but with alot lower air pressure.

2: cold air feed, cooler air is picked up from above the car rather than hot air from the engine bay. resulting in a denser air entering the cylinders, more expansion on combustion and more power/less fuel burned.

so thanks for laughing at my response, maybe you should join a honda forum?

No I'm laughing because you're clueless.

Ram air pressure increase at 100km/h (27m/s)
P=1/2density*velocity^2
= 1/2*1.2*27^2
=437 Pa.

That 437 looks like a big number doesn't it.
Well it's not.
The atmospheric pressure is 101,300 Pa
Which means your ram gives you a maximum density increase of 0.43%.

An amount that big is known as "f**k all".

In a petrol engine your best economy is gained from sucking in warm air. Colder air into a throttled engine means more throttling losses which mean worse fuel economy.

I've already said that cold air into a diesel is a good thing. If you want cold air (and the factory hasn't sorted it first) then you don't need to add a 2m long snorkel.

OOO BURN....

*grabs popcorn*

ill admit defeat!! im used to arguing with 15y.o's that have no idea about anything. (my last car was an import)

but that said, at 110km/h you would be pushing on almost 1psi intake pressure increase, and considering that the engine intake is always under vacuum, even 1psi is going to reduce the restriction. Its like adding a pod filter to a small petrol motor, the lower restriction, be it 1 or 2psi is still going to result in 3 or 4kw more power. Add that to the cooler denser air and you are sure to gain a bit of power. while the added power may not directly give u better fuel economy, the lighter foot on the pedal will.

and if u read the remainder of my post, i did state that the main reason people put them on is the "wank" factor.

its been a long time since i have read my fluid mechanics/engineering text books, all these equations and numbers are too much!

changaz wrote: but that said, at 110km/h you would be pushing on almost 1psi intake pressure increase,

Nowhere near 1psi.

110km = 561 Pa
561Pa = 0.08 psi

The 2m of snorkle are going to give more restriction than that.

Yeh m8, im using stainless like the above shorty, i dont fancy the whole pvc idea hey paul, where on earth did you go to get you pipe for 20 bucks a meter ???

Holy hell we are on page two with quite a debate on our hands.. keep it up fellas i like it yeh yellow lux ill b posting up soon m8

hey paul, where on earth did you go to get you pipe for 20 bucks a meter

Page Furnishers Pty Ltd in Pomona.

i got it from a mate who works there, apparently retail was only about $25 a metre. i was shocked, the pipe was pretty much the cheapest part i needed.

PAUL

Lux_89 wrote:i dont fancy the whole pvc idea

hmm yeh im likin the steel one too looks better but mines easily changed so if i get around to it ill swap mine to steel piping

Lux_89 wrote:yeh yellow lux ill b posting up soon m8

I like to call it the yellux

also mandrel exhaust is good for it. easy to use etc.

cost 120 for pipework from zaust shop and 35 for the ramhead.

going to grind and paint it later this week if i can.

mine below


http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/184/ ... iumfg6.jpg

KiwiBacon you seem up on all this maths jazz... im pretty clueless when it comes to maths, but looking at your calculation this is only true for a equal diamater pipe??? most ram heads have a considerably larger intake area than the pipe, surely this would affect the calculation (and explain the performance/economy benifits that ppl have reported?

90Mav wrote:KiwiBacon you seem up on all this maths jazz... im pretty clueless when it comes to maths, but looking at your calculation this is only true for a equal diamater pipe??? most ram heads have a considerably larger intake area than the pipe, surely this would affect the calculation (and explain the performance/economy benifits that ppl have reported?

Ram effect is just one of those big automotive myths like hiclones, even when it's a scoop on top of the bonnet it's a myth and when there's 10 feet of tubing to make a snorkel it's even more of a myth.

The added performance/economy benefits are what I like to call "psychological horsepower." Either that or they did a tune-up and replaced some other bits and pieces whilst fitting the snorkel.

Let's face it there are people out there who will swear black and blue that the little blue LEDs they put on their windscreen wipers gave them a noticeable performance/economy benefit.

90Mav wrote:KiwiBacon you seem up on all this maths jazz... im pretty clueless when it comes to maths, but looking at your calculation this is only true for a equal diamater pipe??? most ram heads have a considerably larger intake area than the pipe, surely this would affect the calculation (and explain the performance/economy benifits that ppl have reported?

The calculations are for "stagnation pressure". That's the most pressure you're ever going to get and requies an intake soo large that the air velocity through it is almost nothing.

The actual pressure increase is related to the difference between the velocity of air through the intake and the velocity the vehicle is moving at.
If the intake velocity is higher than the vehicle speed, then the engine is still sucking and there is no ram air effect.

My truck at 100km/h sucks approx 70 litres of air every second.
To stop it having to still suck air in at 100km/h (27 m/s) you'll need an intake area of approx 25cm^2 (ignoring the other complexities of fluid flow).

If you take a ram head with 15cm by 15cm, then to get 70 L/s through it needs and airspeed of 3m/s.
Your "air ram" speed is then 27-3 = 24 m/s, giving you approx 80% of the ram air effect I calculated several threads back.
That's 80% of "f**K all" as opposed to 100%.

There is no ram air effect at legal speeds, it's a myth.
If you have a 4wd that can do 300km/h then it's a consideration.

I put a 3 inch pipe and rubber bend snorkle on the zook and found that Bunnings has a flywire mesh "drain protector" that fits nice and tight onto the end of a 3 inch rubber bend.....stops leaves and crap getting in and when spray painted black you can't even notice it.

I used aluminium pipe on mine juist because i got it free .if it dents then i'll just get some more or upgrade to stainless...

If you get it for othing then sh*t yeh, id do the same!!

where are the pictures Lux_89 ???

yeh kinda got kept back abit aye, got distracted.. you no how wemon ahve this affect on guys where you just drop all your plans at a click of a finger for them?? haahaha sooon it will be done

Thought i would just throw these pics in i knocked this one up on sunday for one of the boys its 4" stainless used 2 90deg bends and about 2 mtrs of tube still gotta polish but looks alright

UrbanRedneck wrote:Thought i would just throw these pics in i knocked this one up on sunday for one of the boys its 4" stainless used 2 90deg bends and about 2 mtrs of tube still gotta polish but looks alright

Looks great, but what sort of motor does he have that needs a 4" snorkel?

chimpboy wrote:

UrbanRedneck wrote:Thought i would just throw these pics in i knocked this one up on sunday for one of the boys its 4" stainless used 2 90deg bends and about 2 mtrs of tube still gotta polish but looks alright

Looks great, but what sort of motor does he have that needs a 4" snorkel?

At the moment it has the standard petrol donk but i think the plan is for a GenIII and he want to run comp other than that i just make what they want.
Also made another one friday night for a mates 4runner out of 2.5" but havent got any pics yet.

Here's what happened when I went 3.5" - and I wish it only took me a night...! Something about arc welding airboxes just doesn't work too well we discovered...

where is a place in melbourne to the get metal cheap?

UrbanRedneck wrote:Thought i would just throw these pics in i knocked this one up on sunday for one of the boys its 4" stainless used 2 90deg bends and about 2 mtrs of tube still gotta polish but looks alright

Nice job, a little pickling on the welds and it'd look great. Polish if you prefer.
Those are some very tidy welds.

Hell yeh, im not that good so im settling for rubber bends

I made a pvc snorkel for mine after snapping my old one!

Took about 20 minutes the hole was already cut and i just brought all the bends and stuff from bunnings! Sprayed it and off i go! Even cut up lengths to keep in the car so if i snap it again it's easy to fix!

Will get pics for you!

Just a quick note about PVC and convoluted tubing.

I have seen PVC snorkels shatter, but that's pretty obvious and you wouldn't go charging into a hole after your snorkel had exploded.... BUT-

Convoluted tube is not IMHO suitable for the transition from the snorkel into the guard.

On my car, that area of the snorkel seems to cop a massive hammering- I seem to dig that area into the ground on most trips. Additionally, that convoluted piping will become brittle under UV. My guess is that a small split in this tube might go unnoticed and this could be catastrophic.

I have always just used 3" exhaust tubing for snorkels, but to tell you the truth, IMHO if the air ducting is well set up, you have to be in some REALLY deep water for the snorkel to do anything. In most cases, more garbage end up in the airbox because of the snorkel.

Steve.