Outer Limits 4x4 Board

professor wrote:

love ke70 wrote:

professor wrote:The other main design criteria was to transmit complimentary torque back into the chassis to reduce the 'ROLLY' feeling that 5links and Xlinks are known for.

5links maybe

The second majour point of the XLink is that it delivers an exact equal amount of torque to both arms in any wheel travel position meaning it wont try to tip you over when you give it a boot full or jump on the brakes. No bushing or arm design will eva offer what the XLink can and as for "Rolly feeling " looks like you havent driven an XLinked rig! right.

Chad

hey got a Question!

What is "transmit complimentary torque" mean? I think the XLink does it but im not sure??

whats the Xlink like around corners? from what ive seen, heard and been told, they just start to roll and keep rolling. due to the nature of the design?
i like the idea of an Xlink, but from what i ahve heard i wouldnt want it on a daily rig. whats your thoughts on this?

cheers, andrew

Everyone wants it all!
you can't have it.

it is definatly more supple and that is what is intened but they are not scary to drive as implyed.(there is now a simple lockoff for the XLink too) There is allot to think about and its not just bolting somthing up. as stated spring rates shock rates and loads all play a part. its hard to make a device that covers all bases to suit every situation ie handleing and travel to work together. the XLink has been the only thing sofar to bridge the gap between full on hard core (A frame front ends) and your stock rubber mounted radious arms in all forms.

I look forward to see how the new arms perform.


back to the arms just a plug to clear the XLinks name

Chad

gotta agree, these arms seem to be the next progression from std or drop arms, they are bolt-in no fab work and off the shelf shocks,springs and tower.
The next step up is an Xlink for those chasing mega flex.

( note: i am not trying to sell them, as far as i am concerned, so long as Superior Eng make me a set , i dont care if another set ever get made, if you are interested call Mick himself. ).

went down and checked it out today. im impressed thats for sure. his drop arms look nice too. mick is going to tough tracks this weekend for those who want to check it out.

i can see how it would be more stable that other flex designs, but it will bind before something that uses 3 pivots still. if he decides to put them into production im buying one. atleast buying his drop arms. theyre very beef looking.

Well it passed the comp test with flying colours.

4WD Stuff wrote:Well it passed the comp test with flying colours.

yep everything worked really well, considering we only got the injection running 4am friday morning and have never driven the new combo offroad. It was awesome offcamber, never even flinched on steep climbs, and gave the new CALoffroad cv's a good hiding smoking up 38.5" boggers!!! 2nd overall is a good start.

geez, i thought someone who have posted this already, or maybe they have and i missed it...

https://www.suspensionstuff.com.au/shop ... 18e0998f82


now for sale....

Its actually on Superiors website too.

HeathGQ wrote:Its actually on Superiors website too.

but its dearer........

Any differences in the arms to suit GU?

Ah so someone said this was some wierd and wonderful design. Its not very new. Seen a couple of differnt version of this over the net.
Well going by the pics in the link anyway.
So from the pic. A similar effect could be had from just pulling a radius arm bolt out? Or cutting the front of a std arm off?

turps wrote:Ah so someone said this was some wierd and wonderful design. Its not very new. Seen a couple of differnt version of this over the net.
Well going by the pics in the link anyway.
So from the pic. A similar effect could be had from just pulling a radius arm bolt out? Or cutting the front of a std arm off?

I think you'll find the "chopped arm" has 3 connecting points judging by the plates included. Can't really see from the pic but it looks like there may be 2 vertically oriented bushes on the "chopped arm" instead of the standard two mounting locations.

Someone may be able confirm ...

From superior website

jeez that is a really bad pic!!!!!, no it still runs 2 bushs in each arm. the passenger arm runs a different OD bottom bush. having the bush at the bottom, still allows the arm to transmit torque but at a slightly reduced percentage to the 'drive' side. and having them near vertical allows the arm to flex L-R so this eliminates the side-side bind that std arm setups induce causing the bushs to tear. (the adapter plates give you the NEW bottom hole position)

1MadEngineer wrote:jeez that is a really bad pic!!!!!, no it still runs 2 bushs in each arm. the passenger arm runs a different OD bottom bush. having the bush at the bottom, still allows the arm to transmit torque but at a slightly reduced percentage to the 'drive' side. and having them near vertical allows the arm to flex L-R so this eliminates the side-side bind that std arm setups induce causing the bushs to tear. (the adapter plates give you the NEW bottom hole position)

I am guessing it is bad on purpose to stip tight rectumed copy cats.

1MadEngineer wrote:jeez that is a really bad pic!!!!!, no it still runs 2 bushs in each arm. the passenger arm runs a different OD bottom bush. having the bush at the bottom, still allows the arm to transmit torque but at a slightly reduced percentage to the 'drive' side. and having them near vertical allows the arm to flex L-R so this eliminates the side-side bind that std arm setups induce causing the bushs to tear. (the adapter plates give you the NEW bottom hole position)

You say, the bottom bush is a different OD. Is it a standard size? (ie toyota, mitsu, nissan, etc) ... Can it be replaced at a later date, if/when it wears out?

love_mud wrote:I am guessing it is bad on purpose to stip tight rectumed copy cats.

It has patent pending anyway so they'd be in deep doodoo if anyone tryed ...

RoldIT wrote:

1MadEngineer wrote:jeez that is a really bad pic!!!!!, no it still runs 2 bushs in each arm. the passenger arm runs a different OD bottom bush. having the bush at the bottom, still allows the arm to transmit torque but at a slightly reduced percentage to the 'drive' side. and having them near vertical allows the arm to flex L-R so this eliminates the side-side bind that std arm setups induce causing the bushs to tear. (the adapter plates give you the NEW bottom hole position)

You say, the bottom bush is a different OD. Is it a standard size? (ie toyota, mitsu, nissan, etc) ... Can it be replaced at a later date, if/when it wears out?

That bush is a genuine Nissan bush from a different part of the truck so it can be replaced but because you don't have the same binding as normal castor bushes then your bushes are going to last a very long time. Pic will be improved soon.

Shane

Well in that case I will take back my comment that it was basically an old idea with new paint.
I think I can sorta get my head around how it works. Basically the same as std. But allows for better leverage of the bushes.

I'm keen. Been in contact with Superior Engineering and they are saying kit for 3" lift should be in production in a couple of months so might have to shout myself a Xmas present.

4WD Stuff can you post some pics of the passenger arm fitted on flat ground and one pic of the passenger arm when flexing. I am having a hard time picturing how this new system creats so much flex. I will be chasing a 3 inch set of arms when they become available.

SIM79 wrote:4WD Stuff can you post some pics of the passenger arm fitted on flat ground and one pic of the passenger arm when flexing. I am having a hard time picturing how this new system creats so much flex. I will be chasing a 3 inch set of arms when they become available.

If you can picture a driver side normal arm. As the tyre drops it rolls the diff forwards. At the same time, if the passenger side tyre goes up into the guard, the diff rolls backwards in the other direction.

In a normal GQ the bushes are not compliant enough to let it flex. People have tried drilling holes in their bushes to make them more compliant etc.

Now with the Superior Super Flex Radius Arms you have these same bushes working for you but it has an extra bush that is a bit more compliant allowing the passenger side to roll forwards and backwards. Hence wicked flex. It isn't fully compliant like other designs so pressure has to be put on it still to force it to flex. This gives it more stability then other designs so your GQ/GU isn't rolling all over the place on the tracks or on road.

Shane

4WD Stuff wrote:

SIM79 wrote:4WD Stuff can you post some pics of the passenger arm fitted on flat ground and one pic of the passenger arm when flexing. I am having a hard time picturing how this new system creats so much flex. I will be chasing a 3 inch set of arms when they become available.

If you can picture a driver side normal arm. As the tyre drops it rolls the diff forwards. At the same time, if the passenger side tyre goes up into the guard, the diff rolls backwards in the other direction.

In a normal GQ the bushes are not compliant enough to let it flex. People have tried drilling holes in their bushes to make them more compliant etc.

Now with the Superior Super Flex Radius Arms you have these same bushes working for you but it has an extra bush that is a bit more compliant allowing the passenger side to roll forwards and backwards. Hence wicked flex. It isn't fully compliant like other designs so pressure has to be put on it still to force it to flex. This gives it more stability then other designs so your GQ/GU isn't rolling all over the place on the tracks or on road.

Shane

So basicly its the same as removing the bolt on one side and limiting that side with a bush.?

I guess its similar to why Toyotas get slightly more twist in the front end than nissans, the caster bushes on a 80 or 105 are closer together than the nissans, ~200mm as opposed to ~240 for the nissan. It just allows for more twist if they're closer together.

cheers

OONDY

oondy wrote:I guess its similar to why Toyotas get slightly more twist in the front end than nissans, the caster bushes on a 80 or 105 are closer together than the nissans, ~200mm as opposed to ~240 for the nissan. It just allows for more twist if they're closer together.

cheers

OONDY

More leverage(stress) on the bush!

professor wrote:
More leverage(stress) on the bush!

exactly.

cheers

OONDY

There is a lever affect but it is working with you not against you.

Picture a plank lying on the ground and it is fixed at one end. If you lift the plank at the other end imagine the bush being a third of the way down closest to the fixed point. This is the leverage affect. It is working to put less force on the bushes.

The other factor with this is that there is an extra castor bush sharing the load or twist but this is less a factor then the leverage affect that I am talking about.

But you don't want to take all the stress off the bushes otherwise it would be like an X-Link or 3-Link on side slopes; free and easy. You do want the bushes to hold it all in place for stability.

I hope this helps to clear it up a bit.

Shane

4WD Stuff wrote:There is a lever affect but it is working with you not against you.

Picture a plank lying on the ground and it is fixed at one end. If you lift the plank at the other end imagine the bush being a third of the way down closest to the fixed point. This is the leverage affect. It is working to put less force on the bushes.

The other factor with this is that there is an extra castor bush sharing the load or twist but this is less a factor then the leverage affect that I am talking about.

But you don't want to take all the stress off the bushes otherwise it would be like an X-Link or 3-Link on side slopes; free and easy. You do want the bushes to hold it all in place for stability.

I hope this helps to clear it up a bit.

Shane

On your plank theory the force is coming from the opposit end not the end you lift, there for the bushes being closer together means there is a greater mechanical advantage over the 2 bushes meaning more stress on the bush meaning more chance to fail/wear out. The bush might not travel as far but it has to put up with more force being closer together.
I cant see this product covering both bases handeling and flex as there is nearly allways a compromise somewhere. i guess having the other side standard helps and puts it back to being similar to having a bolt removed and this on side slopes is very scary, even scaryer if you jump on the brakes or if you accelerate fast.

Chad

professor wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote:There is a lever affect but it is working with you not against you.

Picture a plank lying on the ground and it is fixed at one end. If you lift the plank at the other end imagine the bush being a third of the way down closest to the fixed point. This is the leverage affect. It is working to put less force on the bushes.

The other factor with this is that there is an extra castor bush sharing the load or twist but this is less a factor then the leverage affect that I am talking about.

But you don't want to take all the stress off the bushes otherwise it would be like an X-Link or 3-Link on side slopes; free and easy. You do want the bushes to hold it all in place for stability.

I hope this helps to clear it up a bit.

Shane

On your plank theory the force is coming from the opposit end not the end you lift, there for the bushes being closer together means there is a greater mechanical advantage over the 2 bushes meaning more stress on the bush meaning more chance to fail/wear out. The bush might not travel as far but it has to put up with more force being closer together.
I cant see this product covering both bases handeling and flex as there is nearly allways a compromise somewhere. i guess having the other side standard helps and puts it back to being similar to having a bolt removed and this on side slopes is very scary, even scaryer if you jump on the brakes or if you accelerate fast.

Chad

So you are saying that the bush doesn't have to travel as far so it will wear faster. The bush doesn't care whether it has 10kg or 20 tonnes pressing against it. All it cares about is how far it is pushed. This and how often it happens is the determining factor of wear.

If you are comparing it to the X Link then the X link is going to be easier on the bushes.

I think I see where you are confused with my plank theory. The part that is fixed is the rear bush. The part where where you lift from is the front bush and the pivot is the bush in between. So in my plank theory, the fixed end is a bush, the end you lift is a bush and the pivot is a bush so you get flex from everywhere but you still need to put pressure on them to flex.

Not everything in life is a compromise, some are just flat out improvements, however yes there is a compromise with this setup. It is a bit more compliant then your standard arms so it is a bit more compliant on road but still very stable. It is also very stable on side slopes compared to anything else on the market that prouduces great usable flex.

I hope this clears things up a bit but I have a feeling this could go on an on and on.

Cheers
Shane

4WD Stuff wrote:

professor wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote:There is a lever affect but it is working with you not against you.

Picture a plank lying on the ground and it is fixed at one end. If you lift the plank at the other end imagine the bush being a third of the way down closest to the fixed point. This is the leverage affect. It is working to put less force on the bushes.

The other factor with this is that there is an extra castor bush sharing the load or twist but this is less a factor then the leverage affect that I am talking about.

But you don't want to take all the stress off the bushes otherwise it would be like an X-Link or 3-Link on side slopes; free and easy. You do want the bushes to hold it all in place for stability.

I hope this helps to clear it up a bit.

Shane

On your plank theory the force is coming from the opposit end not the end you lift, there for the bushes being closer together means there is a greater mechanical advantage over the 2 bushes meaning more stress on the bush meaning more chance to fail/wear out. The bush might not travel as far but it has to put up with more force being closer together.
I cant see this product covering both bases handeling and flex as there is nearly allways a compromise somewhere. i guess having the other side standard helps and puts it back to being similar to having a bolt removed and this on side slopes is very scary, even scaryer if you jump on the brakes or if you accelerate fast.

Chad

So you are saying that the bush doesn't have to travel as far so it will wear faster. The bush doesn't care whether it has 10kg or 20 tonnes pressing against it. All it cares about is how far it is pushed. This and how often it happens is the determining factor of wear.

If you are comparing it to the X Link then the X link is going to be easier on the bushes.

I think I see where you are confused with my plank theory. The part that is fixed is the rear bush. The part where where you lift from is the front bush and the pivot is the bush in between. So in my plank theory, the fixed end is a bush, the end you lift is a bush and the pivot is a bush so you get flex from everywhere but you still need to put pressure on them to flex.

Not everything in life is a compromise, some are just flat out improvements, however yes there is a compromise with this setup. It is a bit more compliant then your standard arms so it is a bit more compliant on road but still very stable. It is also very stable on side slopes compared to anything else on the market that prouduces great usable flex.

I hope this clears things up a bit but I have a feeling this could go on an on and on.

Cheers
Shane

Still 2 bushes closer together work harder to oppose the torque that the diff produces. there are a few issues the rubbers have to contend with 1 the braking and acelerating torque(closly related to good handeling) and 2 the twisting of the rubbers under articulation(flexed up) the Xlink works well in both issues you can still jump on the brakes and stop just as well as standard and still flex up and drive well with traction on and off road.

Chad

Did you recommend slotted bushes with this new set up?

SIM79 wrote:Did you recommend slotted bushes with this new set up?

No I don't recommend slotted bushes with this setup. This is just one of the ways to get yourself better articulation, not so good on road though because they do flog out pretty quick.

Shane