Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Use Mandrel bent stuff! Make the entire thing out of one bit of pipe with a nice mandrel bend in it.... Y you ask? Go to uni and do an engineering degree, you might learn it there...

Cruza62 wrote:Use Mandrel bent stuff! Make the entire thing out of one bit of pipe with a nice mandrel bend in it.... Y you ask? Go to uni and do an engineering degree, you might learn it there...

Are you related to danman.

PS whether something is pipe or tube depends more on its intended purpose than any way of measuring it, because even in pipe, nominal sizing changes from NB to OD at 14". Below 14" pipe size is based on bore. Above 14" pipe is sized on OD.

Pipe is for conveying a product. It's structural properties are secondary to its pressure retaining capabilities and the material required to provide acceptable corrosion resistance in the service intended.

That's why schedule pipe is thick and also has nowhere near the mechanical properties ( dimensional tolerance, ductility, "spring" etc) of actual tube like DOM.

Tube is a structural member. It is not intended for pressure retention.

PS If you are going to flap disc the weld cap down, Definitely sleeve the inside of the pipe, leave about a 2mm root gap and make sure you fuse well into the sleeve.

The biggest problem with weld in elbows is poor strength/weight - lots of material and weld for the same strength as a mandrel bend. If you are prepared to live with this it will be OK IMHO.

Steve.

Cool, I don't know if this dude is a really f'n good welder or not, so just to be on the safe side (unless you are going to get your welds tested>>?DLI?), I'd make it out of one piece. The bends won't be too hard to produce unless the rotation factor is extremely important.
Anyhow show some pics when your done...

Sorry if this is a hijack, just want to clear something up.

Cruza62 - I don't dsagree with you, I have a bender and woudl use DOM (CDS) in this application but still can't really see anything wrong with elbows.

DLI doesn't exist any more. As such, engineers don't really know how to deal with structural welding on vehicles so they have a look at the welds and tend to recommend non critical welds like fillets, doubling plates, plug welds etc where there is a big safety margin. with no check on the welders qualifications or third party inspection.

In steering components, X-Ray or Magnetic particle inspection will be requested, but in most cases, again, no investigation is carried out to determine whether the welder concerned is qualified. Often engineers will try and recommend solutions that do not require welding on steering components.

The correct code for the welding of structural steel is AS1554:1 2004. Category SP is applied for vehicle work.

There are lots of pre-qualified procedures in this code.

My reason for not being too concerned about pipe is that if penetration is achieved into the sleeve, there will be far more material thickness in the hoop than in a bent tube- pipe - >3.5mm Tube (DOM) typically <3.0mm at some point, there will be a tube/plate weld (even if only at the chassis) so the effect of poor welding will be applied to a thinner section where there is more chance of a failure in the heat affected zone.

PS I'm in the industry (weld inspection).... can you tell

Gwagensteve wrote: PS I'm in the industry (weld inspection).... can you tell

Oh good, can you tell me the cheapest place to get a copy of AS4041:2006?

Not really, we have a rather large account with SAI and get automatic updates.

I didn't think 4041 was that dear? 1210's the killer.

Steve.

Even normal pipe bent bends would be safer than joinging two bits of material together, do you know anyone with a pipe bender ?

it would be easier to bend some (pipe even with a normal bender) rather than have to weld it to another piece of bent pipe....

Cruza -

That's were it becomes a design issue. A normal (pipe) bender won't put two 90's together into a hoop, or bend a 180. That takes special equipment.

Zookstock - I didn't think I was flaming Kiwibacon at all... and as it turns out I was wrong anyway.

Prices as below from SAI global:

4041:
Member Price .pdf $168.30 Paper$187.00
Retail Price .pdf $198.00 Paper$220.00

1210

Member Price .pdf $160.65 Paper $178.50
Retail Price .pdf $189.00 Paper $210.00
Plus about $70 for ammendments.

Steve

ZookStock wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:Not really, we have a rather large account with SAI and get automatic updates.

I didn't think 4041 was that dear? 1210's the killer.

Steve.

He takes a deep breath, takes aim, waits for the moment, and.............. BANG Flames his opponent in one shot......

WTF are you on about?
I asked a question, he answered it.

So Red_Zook , did you use them or where you scared off , Can't see a problem but you must buy the right type of weld in bend , there are a few type's , I've used some on my transfer mount and rear bar , if welded correctly what is the difference betwween the welds that attach it to the chassis and the welding on the bends , Not much , if you asked an engineer to make some tight radius close together bends they would do the same , they would be welded , we used to do this when we made structual upgrades for trucks coming into Aus for Western Star , Volvo and Mack trucks when I lived in Queensland. I wouldn't use them on a roll bar which should be one piece where possible , Cheers Paul.

well i orderd a bender..
im gona see how we go...
i may have to use some but i m ay get away without!