Outer Limits 4x4 Board

sierrajim wrote:The really funny thing is that most of the people who complain about how much things cost are the same people that complain they don't get paid enough.

Haha, thats me.

big lux wrote:why is it snake & bbm both want $230 for there droped front cross member for a hilux yet superior do the same part for $160 and many otha parts are the same story. i am in syd and dont have a credit card so cant just order it online off superior. is this the price i pay for not having a credit card. or do superior have a reseller in sydney??? or is there sum1 im not thinking of?

Superior don't have any middle men as they manufacture and work from a shed at there house so they can afford to be very competitive. They have also been doing this for a long time and are good at it.

LudaCris

I appreciate that different products that appear to do a similar job will have different costs.
It is when the exact same product is a vastly different cost that I get pi$$ed.
For example.... Retail from opposite lock for a detroit locker to suit a toyota 8" diff is around the $1200 mark supply only.
I can buy and air freight from the USA(a retail shop) and have it here to my door for $780????

Now when OL obviously have a better buying power than little old me and they are freighting in bulk how can they justify this disparity... Just remember I am paying retail cost in USA.... not national distributor trade rates......
To me that stinks.

Giles

Im not naming names or saying all 4wd shops are like this (I should know after owning a failed 4WD accessory shop) but there is fairly large 4WD accessory wholesaler/retailer, that pays/paid $8 for a particular item and sells the items from $100-$110each, another item costs them $68.00 sells for over $300. If thats not an excessive markup I don't know what is.

Liam wrote:

ARB/ OME gear is probably imported into the US duty free due to the US free trade agreement coupled with a stronger currency, therefor still cheaper for us to buy from the us than local.

But if it's made in thailand then ARB still has to pay import duties, the US still is a very protected market.

clothing/ footwear is where the big markups are, i'm a customs broker and know what some companies are paying for stuff ! A $10 pair of sneakerss cost you $160 in the shops.

your assuming the cost declared is the real cost.
With shoes especially the cost of goods is only a tiny part of the equation. The real cost involves buying space in stores, promotions, massive advertising and sponsorship budgets. As in the record/ magazine/ book industry the companies send out the stock knowiing that a fair amount will come back and have to be dumped below it's true cost.
The factory in china didn't just grow there, someone ponyed up the bucks to build it. This is't reflected in the $10. If it's the companies own there's no way the cost declared is the true cost, not many people would voluntarily pay more tax than they need to. If it's not theres and they buy enough stock they'd be in a position to pay less for the shoes and make up the rest as "advertising contribution" or similar, again keeping the declared amount to as low as possible, paying less tax.

The US has a huge local market so their stuff is cheaper as they move more

It's also got a lot more players in the market, a lot more vehicles to cover, a lot more discounting and is very protected.

Your not telling me anything new, i was just giving some basic examples.

Jaffa wrote:Im not naming names or saying all 4wd shops are like this (I should know after owning a failed 4WD accessory shop) but there is fairly large 4WD accessory wholesaler/retailer, that pays/paid $8 for a particular item and sells the items from $100-$110each, another item costs them $68.00 sells for over $300. If thats not an excessive markup I don't know what is.

people who make these kind of statements have obviously never been in business for them selves. business owners have HUGE ammounts of overheads to cover before we even put any dollars in our own pockets. i own a shop (not 4wd related) consider this list
Rent $20,000 a year
public liability $2000 a year
utilities ie electricity phone etc $3000 a year
other insurance etc $2000 a year
vehicle running costs $heaps of dough
staff and workers comp $heaps
advertising $$$ heaps more dollars
numerous other expenses and government fees.
its easy for people who work for wages to say that retailers are marking prices up too much, i used to think the same until i bought my own business and now realise how much cash you have to take over the counter before you make 1 cent for your self. most small businesses do it tough, they are not the gold mines people think they are.

Some little business facts:

1. Employees ALWAYS want to get paid, regardless of wheather you've sold anything that week or not

2. Employees (not all but lots) will ALWAYS take a sicky when they feel like it (you'll have to pay then for that too)

3. Your rent/morgage will always have to get paid

4. Your power bill is the same wheather you've sold anything or not

5. You'll always have to pay GST, FBT, Income Tax, Company Tax, some form of duties, Payroll tax, Super annuation, Workcover, Insurance.....the list may continue.


US stores operate on lower margins based on high turnover in most cases.

These Australia stores you like to publically complain about will go out of business if they don't adapt to our new GLOBAL ECONOMY. When they do i guess you'll all bitch and whinge that there isn't a local 4x4 store that you can buy an Australian rated snatch strap from????

everyone has a right to make money thats what business is about
sometimes the cheap way out is not the best way out .
and sometimes quality comes at a price

quaddrive wrote:I appreciate that different products that appear to do a similar job will have different costs.
It is when the exact same product is a vastly different cost that I get pi$$ed.
For example.... Retail from opposite lock for a detroit locker to suit a toyota 8" diff is around the $1200 mark supply only.
I can buy and air freight from the USA(a retail shop) and have it here to my door for $780????

Now when OL obviously have a better buying power than little old me and they are freighting in bulk how can they justify this disparity... Just remember I am paying retail cost in USA.... not national distributor trade rates......
To me that stinks.

Giles

55% mark up on your price, but you wouldn't be paying OL overheads like wages power shop rents etc.


I tend to think the Australian product is better suited for 4WDing in general a lot of the USA stuff seems to be a bit weak or suited for a set goal like driving in a desert but might rust out if taken through the mud.

A lot of the US 4wd mags have and use the Australian products in them for a reason.


Chinse Products aren't costed in dollars that way too dear they would be cents per item, so a pair of nike shose from china would only be 20 cents even for the most dearest pair.

Just look at some of the Chinse factory buying sites and you can put in an order for 10,000 car head units any branding put on them you want on a monday, and have them shipped to your door by the friday morning and even that might be taking too long to be shipped.

You can buy Nike shoes in the UK at the same prices as the no name brands here, only because so many people buy nike shoes in the UK.

where as here Nike shoes might be $120 at the cheapest.

Liam wrote:

if I'm in a bind, their not going to help me out

Hang about, most shops have a heap of guys using there tools, trailers etc after hours, get called out to retrieve people and are only too happy to sponsor all the comps that are on...isn't that helping out? They're happy to expalin how shit works, how to fix your stuff, and recomend where to get a good deal. Do you think 4wd stores really want to spend their days diagnosing mystery noises over the phone? Personally I've lost count of the number of weekends and nights I've spent fixing other peoples stuff, recken I've pressed in at least 40 sets of bushes, cut a hundred snorkel holes and other jobs to stop customers from making a mess of it. Generally our customers are a pretty cool bunch, so you really don't mind doing stuff for them. Stangely there doesn't seem to be anyone here helping me dig up my driveway this arvo...I'm sure rick will point out that thats because I'm a a@#$hole.

Good on ya, then your part of the maybe 1% of shops out there, that will go out of their way for a customer. Most don't give a toss after the dollars are in their till.

You might have missed the part where I said "all store's here", not just workshops or 4x4 stuff. I just don't see why a consumer should feel guilt about buying whats financially best for them. No one else is going to look after their financial interests.

RockyF70 wrote:Most don't give a toss after the dollars are in their till.

as one member found out after his brakes were checked - then few 100klms later the pads fell out as they were that worn

I just don't see why a consumer should feel guilt about buying whats financially best for them. No one else is going to look after their financial interests.

best reply in whole thread.

Madmac wrote:

Jaffa wrote:Im not naming names or saying all 4wd shops are like this (I should know after owning a failed 4WD accessory shop) but there is fairly large 4WD accessory wholesaler/retailer, that pays/paid $8 for a particular item and sells the items from $100-$110each, another item costs them $68.00 sells for over $300. If thats not an excessive markup I don't know what is.

people who make these kind of statements have obviously never been in business for them selves. business owners have HUGE ammounts of overheads to cover before we even put any dollars in our own pockets. i own a shop (not 4wd related) consider this list
Rent $20,000 a year
public liability $2000 a year
utilities ie electricity phone etc $3000 a year
other insurance etc $2000 a year
vehicle running costs $heaps of dough
staff and workers comp $heaps
advertising $$$ heaps more dollars
numerous other expenses and government fees.
its easy for people who work for wages to say that retailers are marking prices up too much, i used to think the same until i bought my own business and now realise how much cash you have to take over the counter before you make 1 cent for your self. most small businesses do it tough, they are not the gold mines people think they are.

I do understand how much it costs to run a business, I had my business for nearly 3 years before I pulled the pin, then a partnership in a completely unrelated business for the last 2 years, currently working with my old man who has run his own business's for the last 20+ years (and has shared his knowledge and experiences with me).

My point in my last post was that I think it is wrong when your selling tens of thousands of a particular product per year, at over 1000% markup, I think they are ripping people off and I also believe this (among other reasons) is why more and more people are buying things from non-Australian retailers. My 2c

Cheezy4x4 wrote:I wasnt going to enter into this crap as it isnt my customers problem anyway.
BUT
Rocky F70, you need to shop around a bit, I have gone without food to help a custemer in the past and didnt think twice about it.
Madmac, try $50K a year rent, $25K Public Liability a year, $20K Utilities let alone wages, GST, work care, LSL, sikies ect ect ect, B4 you get a buck that most weeks /months you dont even pull a wage, to read that some @#$% on a forum is trying to scam a cheaper price out of on outlet.
OK FIRE SUIT ON (I usually hold my tongue) But Im sick of shutting up.
Go For It, give it your best shot.
Cheezy

Mate, the original post wasnt about scamming shops for a cheaper price. It was asking why 2 different shops can have astronomically different prices for the same product (Valid question I think). If you held your tongue for so long, then you should read it all properlly before you reply.
And your attitude is typical of so many shops around. As soon as someone questions there price they think the person is trying to scam ( yes a lot do). But the simple fact is that a lot of shops Are to bloody dear. I do work in the auto business. I got a price the other day from two parts supply places in the same town by two Australian companys. On the exact same product it cost $160 dollars from one supplier and $96 from the other.
Maybe instead of taking the easy route and just wacking the price up some of these businesses should look at way of cutting costs, keep the price lower and sell more. I know that is easy to say but by wacking the prices up so much more than the opposition the businesses are only hurting themselves in the long run.
Remember the businesses are not the only ones that are Aussie battlers

midi73 wrote:

Cheezy4x4 wrote:I wasnt going to enter into this crap as it isnt my customers problem anyway.
BUT
Rocky F70, you need to shop around a bit, I have gone without food to help a custemer in the past and didnt think twice about it.
Madmac, try $50K a year rent, $25K Public Liability a year, $20K Utilities let alone wages, GST, work care, LSL, sikies ect ect ect, B4 you get a buck that most weeks /months you dont even pull a wage, to read that some @#$% on a forum is trying to scam a cheaper price out of on outlet.
OK FIRE SUIT ON (I usually hold my tongue) But Im sick of shutting up.
Go For It, give it your best shot.
Cheezy

Mate, the original post wasnt about scamming shops for a cheaper price. It was asking why 2 different shops can have astronomically different prices for the same product (Valid question I think). If you held your tongue for so long, then you should read it all properlly before you reply.
And your attitude is typical of so many shops around. As soon as someone questions there price they think the person is trying to scam ( yes a lot do). But the simple fact is that a lot of shops Are to bloody dear. I do work in the auto business. I got a price the other day from two parts supply places in the same town by two Australian companys. On the exact same product it cost $160 dollars from one supplier and $96 from the other.
Maybe instead of taking the easy route and just wacking the price up some of these businesses should look at way of cutting costs, keep the price lower and sell more. I know that is easy to say but by wacking the prices up so much more than the opposition the businesses are only hurting themselves in the long run.
Remember the businesses are not the only ones that are Aussie battlers

Cheesy, i was refering to my own business expenses just to make a point about the cost of over heads, i dont doubt for 1 minute that your over heads are as high as you state. as i said those of us in business need massive turn over before we even see a cent in our pockets.

midi73 wrote:. I got a price the other day from two parts supply places in the same town by two Australian companys. On the exact same product it cost $160 dollars from one supplier and $96 from the other.
Maybe instead of taking the easy route and just wacking the price up some of these businesses should look at way of cutting costs, keep the price lower and sell more. I know that is easy to say but by wacking the prices up so much more than the opposition the businesses are only hurting themselves in the long run.
Remember the businesses are not the only ones that are Aussie battlers

you will probably find that $160 will be the rrp and the shop selling the $96 part gets a hell of alot better discount from the supplier/manufacturer. quite common 2 companies in the same town 1 might get a 40 % discount the other will only get a 10-15% discount. explains the price difference, thats why people shop around.

Difficult argument this one. On one side of the scale it's the storeowners right to charge whatever the hell he likes. It's his craft to get his pricing right whereby he makes a profit and consumers continue to buy. Price too low, no profit = he loses. Price too high, no sale = he loses.

Likewise the consumer wants things affordable and some are doing it tougher than others, as is the case from store to store. Similarly it is the consumers right to buy a product from wherever the hell he likes too. We'd all love to just buy Australian but the reality is that it's a balancing act for the consumer too. Quality too crap, item fails = consumer loses. Price too high, can't afford it = consumer loses.

I beleive there are many items that can be sold a lot cheaper. And as stated higher volume sales with less margin will equate to higher long term profitability. Instead of just the 'hard-corer' upgrading his trailing arms, etc. sell 'em cheaper, market them as more necessary and ultimately put a set on every tourer and road-biased 4by in the land.

Certain suppliers need to have some more pressure put on them from retailers. If they are going to sell direct to public then boycott their wares, they'll soon learn not to f'over their 'real' customers, the store owner.

I have a 'wish list' about 50 items long for my 4by. I'll be lucky to have 5-10 of those items ever. Reduce the prices and i'd maybe have about 30-40 of them. It's worth thinking about if the sport and the market is to seriously grow.

noelb1 wrote:

midi73 wrote:. I got a price the other day from two parts supply places in the same town by two Australian companys. On the exact same product it cost $160 dollars from one supplier and $96 from the other.
Maybe instead of taking the easy route and just wacking the price up some of these businesses should look at way of cutting costs, keep the price lower and sell more. I know that is easy to say but by wacking the prices up so much more than the opposition the businesses are only hurting themselves in the long run.
Remember the businesses are not the only ones that are Aussie battlers

you will probably find that $160 will be the rrp and the shop selling the $96 part gets a hell of alot better discount from the supplier/manufacturer. quite common 2 companies in the same town 1 might get a 40 % discount the other will only get a 10-15% discount. explains the price difference, thats why people shop around.

Sorry mate, nice try. They were both our buy price, and the dearer shop would have the best buying power in Australia. The cheaper shop only has about 4 or 5 shops in our area. The dear shop is Aust wide.

midi73 wrote:

noelb1 wrote:

midi73 wrote:. I got a price the other day from two parts supply places in the same town by two Australian companys. On the exact same product it cost $160 dollars from one supplier and $96 from the other.
Maybe instead of taking the easy route and just wacking the price up some of these businesses should look at way of cutting costs, keep the price lower and sell more. I know that is easy to say but by wacking the prices up so much more than the opposition the businesses are only hurting themselves in the long run.
Remember the businesses are not the only ones that are Aussie battlers

you will probably find that $160 will be the rrp and the shop selling the $96 part gets a hell of alot better discount from the supplier/manufacturer. quite common 2 companies in the same town 1 might get a 40 % discount the other will only get a 10-15% discount. explains the price difference, thats why people shop around.

Sorry mate, nice try. They were both our buy price, and the dearer shop would have the best buying power in Australia. The cheaper shop only has about 4 or 5 shops in our area. The dear shop is Aust wide.

just cause it is aust wide doesn't mean they get it cheaper, if its not a stocked item, not one of their main suppliers , have to pay freight etc...., my point is there are many reasons why there is a price difference, not just because people are money hungry ( not all the time anyway) , shop around I bet you bought the $96 part. I reckon the dearer shop would be cheaper on a diferent part/brand and vice versa. we live in a free country shop around if you don't like the price you get from one shop .

and personally I don't just get one price when I am buying things I ring a few places and get a few prices.

noelb1 wrote:

midi73 wrote:

noelb1 wrote:

midi73 wrote:. I got a price the other day from two parts supply places in the same town by two Australian companys. On the exact same product it cost $160 dollars from one supplier and $96 from the other.
Maybe instead of taking the easy route and just wacking the price up some of these businesses should look at way of cutting costs, keep the price lower and sell more. I know that is easy to say but by wacking the prices up so much more than the opposition the businesses are only hurting themselves in the long run.
Remember the businesses are not the only ones that are Aussie battlers

you will probably find that $160 will be the rrp and the shop selling the $96 part gets a hell of alot better discount from the supplier/manufacturer. quite common 2 companies in the same town 1 might get a 40 % discount the other will only get a 10-15% discount. explains the price difference, thats why people shop around.

Sorry mate, nice try. They were both our buy price, and the dearer shop would have the best buying power in Australia. The cheaper shop only has about 4 or 5 shops in our area. The dear shop is Aust wide.

just cause it is aust wide doesn't mean they get it cheaper, if its not a stocked item, not one of their main suppliers , have to pay freight etc...., my point is there are many reasons why there is a price difference, not just because people are money hungry ( not all the time anyway) , shop around I bet you bought the $96 part. I reckon the dearer shop would be cheaper on a diferent part/brand and vice versa. we live in a free country shop around if you don't like the price you get from one shop .

and personally I don't just get one price when I am buying things I ring a few places and get a few prices.

Of course I bought the cheaper item. And mate, "It might not be a stock item" is a silly comment if you think about it. If it is not stock for them it wont be stock for the other supplier either. They had to get the part out of Bris, just the same as the cheaper supplier. And no it doesnt come out in the wash, the dearer supplier is 99% always dearer. I wouldnt worry if the price was just a little bit different, but over $50 different for the same item is just rediculous. There is no excuse for that sort of difference, no matter how you want to justify it.
It is not about weather I bought the cheaper one or not anyway. It is a point in case of what this thread is all about. Some shops are just a bloody rip off, on ( not similar) but the same items. And that is without going to the USA.
And before you say, "why did you ring them". 1: it is good to ring around, as anyone in business will know. That is why I know that they are nearly always a lot dearer. 2: I needed the part fairly quickly and the other supplier didnt have one on the shelf, so I rang to see if they might have. But after seeing the price difference I prob wouldnt have bought it anyway even if they did.

GQ Bear wrote:I have a 'wish list' about 50 items long for my 4by. I'll be lucky to have 5-10 of those items ever. Reduce the prices and i'd maybe have about 30-40 of them. It's worth thinking about if the sport and the market is to seriously grow.

I think most people here are in same boat. Some profit is better than no profit and living in the gutter.

midi73 wrote:

noelb1 wrote:

midi73 wrote:

noelb1 wrote:

midi73 wrote:. I got a price the other day from two parts supply places in the same town by two Australian companys. On the exact same product it cost $160 dollars from one supplier and $96 from the other.
Maybe instead of taking the easy route and just wacking the price up some of these businesses should look at way of cutting costs, keep the price lower and sell more. I know that is easy to say but by wacking the prices up so much more than the opposition the businesses are only hurting themselves in the long run.
Remember the businesses are not the only ones that are Aussie battlers

you will probably find that $160 will be the rrp and the shop selling the $96 part gets a hell of alot better discount from the supplier/manufacturer. quite common 2 companies in the same town 1 might get a 40 % discount the other will only get a 10-15% discount. explains the price difference, thats why people shop around.

Sorry mate, nice try. They were both our buy price, and the dearer shop would have the best buying power in Australia. The cheaper shop only has about 4 or 5 shops in our area. The dear shop is Aust wide.

just cause it is aust wide doesn't mean they get it cheaper, if its not a stocked item, not one of their main suppliers , have to pay freight etc...., my point is there are many reasons why there is a price difference, not just because people are money hungry ( not all the time anyway) , shop around I bet you bought the $96 part. I reckon the dearer shop would be cheaper on a diferent part/brand and vice versa. we live in a free country shop around if you don't like the price you get from one shop .

and personally I don't just get one price when I am buying things I ring a few places and get a few prices.

Of course I bought the cheaper item. And mate, "It might not be a stock item" is a silly comment if you think about it. If it is not stock for them it wont be stock for the other supplier either. They had to get the part out of Bris, just the same as the cheaper supplier. And no it doesnt come out in the wash, the dearer supplier is 99% always dearer. I wouldnt worry if the price was just a little bit different, but over $50 different for the same item is just rediculous. There is no excuse for that sort of difference, no matter how you want to justify it.
It is not about weather I bought the cheaper one or not anyway. It is a point in case of what this thread is all about. Some shops are just a bloody rip off, on ( not similar) but the same items. And that is without going to the USA.
And before you say, "why did you ring them". 1: it is good to ring around, as anyone in business will know. That is why I know that they are nearly always a lot dearer. 2: I needed the part fairly quickly and the other supplier didnt have one on the shelf, so I rang to see if they might have. But after seeing the price difference I prob wouldnt have bought it anyway even if they did.

sounds to me like it doesn't matter what anyone says to you , your mind is made up that they are ripping you off, regardless of any legitimate reasons there might be for the difference. whether it be the shops you deal with or someone else. simple don't buy from them.

I do come from this industry and I have had to deal with this and I have customers who have to deal with this all day long. ( if you are not a brands preferred reseller you get areally Shit discount)

the joys of business.

1 more thing is this the attitude you had when you contacted the suppliers? if it was no wonder they wanted to charge you $160 ,

noelb1 wrote:1 more thing is this the attitude you had when you contacted the suppliers? if it was no wonder they wanted to charge you $160 ,

noelb1 wrote:1 more thing is this the attitude you had when you contacted the suppliers? if it was no wonder they wanted to charge you $160 ,

Come on, $160- $90, Dont think it has anything to do with me being one eyed. What are we stooping down to getting personal now? No it is not my attitude when speaking to suppliers, I have a very good repore with the suppliers, Both of them. The staff of the dear shop also reckon that there chain is expensive.
This is only my attitude when talking to people like you, Oh and rangie drivers.

so they didn't apply a ch fee to it ?

midi73 wrote:

noelb1 wrote:1 more thing is this the attitude you had when you contacted the suppliers? if it was no wonder they wanted to charge you $160 ,

Come on, $160- $90, Dont think it has anything to do with me being one eyed. What are we stooping down to getting personal now? No it is not my attitude when speaking to suppliers, I have a very good repore with the suppliers, Both of them. The staff of the dear shop also reckon that there chain is expensive.
This is only my attitude when talking to people like you, Oh and rangie drivers.

try being on the other side of the counter dealing with certain types of people , makes a days work not very enjoyable somedays.

That is life. You have to shop around. From the consumer right to the manufacturers. First thing our parents teach us about money is shop around.

LudaCris

Something also that I havn't seen pointed out.

Mainly based around service.

Some places will charge more and offer a better service for customers, not saying all as it depends on what kind of service your after.

What kind of service do you get for your money from a US company website?

$780 isn't cheap for something to turn up at your door broken is it.