Outer Limits 4x4 Board

That is one problem i see with the formula toyota series, hiluxes/minitrucks have a weakass frame! they then build off that

most of them rust out and stuff too. I reckon full tube is how they should go.

Sam do it do it do it , build a prototype

I would be very keen to look further into this at around $15k for a full setup

I like the idea, puts everyone on an even footing, no one will have any sort of vehical advantage, all comes down to driver & navigator skill.You will also end up with very close scoring making for a interesting series as there will be no run away winner.

dave wrote:I like the idea, puts everyone on an even footing, no one will have any sort of vehical advantage, all comes down to driver & navigator skill.You will also end up with very close scoring making for a interesting series as there will be no run away winner.

That there is the heart and soul of it. This sport is starting to become an engineering sport, it gives the winner true bragging rights...

I like this idea....... i am very interested in how far this would go. Like most people i don`t have s**t loads of $$$ to build a competitive rig out of my registered weekend warrior and i also don`t have the fab skills aswell . What sam is suggesting here sounds great and if this thing actually gets going i hope to be there..... competeing

bj on roids wrote:That is one problem i see with the formula toyota series, hiluxes/minitrucks have a weakass frame! they then build off that

And what makes a Hilux chassie that is not Rusty Weak?

Sam,

What i am about to say is MY OPINION only and doesn't count for shit, so please do not take any offence to it!

For me i could not sit there and watch 30 identical rigs driving the same course. For me that would become quite boring. (maybe the first couple of times it would interest me).

I know people say that it gets everyone on a level playing field but for me personally i love to see the Nobody in a shitbox mess it up with the big guns and i love to see the BIG GUNS in their BIG rigs that can't drive a greasy stick up a monkeys arse get shown up by a near stock suzuki(thats where the excitment is for ME).

Also what is going to happen when there are heaps of these rigs out there and everyone is driving to the maximum potential of the Rig, the Rigs cannot be inhanced so the Difficulty of the terrain may get to a certain point and stop! By resticting the modifications it may also restrict the advancement in the terrain that is been driven!

If your were to then change anything on the rig to enhance the performance than ALL the rigs must change!! eg You may, up the tyre size from 35 to 40, could everyone afford a new set of 40 inch Mtr's??? (just using that as an example).

Like i said at the start I can see YOUR views and this is only MY FEELINGS!

sounds good guys but wen do u predict this 2 happen ??

how long does it take u 2 build a chassis from start 2 finish so that some1 can come pick it up and start building it up ??

is there is only the 2 smas building them it wood take ages woodnt it ??

or is every1 allowed 2 build wot they want as long as it is a certain wheelbase, weight, same engine/drivetrain, same diffs ???

This all sounds very nice and it would be good to have a toy like this so I dont have to bang up my daily driver having ago at something. But would these be able to qualify for a recreational reg similar to dirt bikes. So as they can be driven off main roads in the scrub. Cos costing over 15G and only being able to drive it on private property / comp areas would suck, cos I need to practice some where (might know a very little spot that could play in) and the only people I know of with proprtys it is used for grazing or crops, so no rocks and other stuff.


Turps
Sounds good though, as even with the comps now people with seriouslly capable rigs arn't competitive.

i prefer to do things differently than everyone else.....i reckon it gets boring if everyone is exactly the same.

I sorta agree with POS & Ruff, but conversly I sorta sudder when I think of the cost of getting into the comp scene as it is now.....
My preference would be for tighter restrictions on the amount of modifications that can be done and the tyres size - but still retain the mixture of "breed"......I'm not likely to cheer a yota or datto up a hill (although I might the driver).....whereas I would cheer a heep up a hill....

Anyways I'd like to see a "beater" class....Ie minimal mods and expense, maximum tyre size of even say 33, road rego optional.......Junk which can be truely flogged

POS wrote:Sam,

What i am about to say is MY OPINION only and doesn't count for shit, so please do not take any offence to it!

For me i could not sit there and watch 30 identical rigs driving the same course. For me that would become quite boring. (maybe the first couple of times it would interest me).

I know people say that it gets everyone on a level playing field but for me personally i love to see the Nobody in a shitbox mess it up with the big guns and i love to see the BIG GUNS in their BIG rigs that can't drive a greasy stick up a monkeys arse get shown up by a near stock suzuki(thats where the excitment is for ME).

Also what is going to happen when there are heaps of these rigs out there and everyone is driving to the maximum potential of the Rig, the Rigs cannot be inhanced so the Difficulty of the terrain may get to a certain point and stop! By resticting the modifications it may also restrict the advancement in the terrain that is been driven!

If your were to then change anything on the rig to enhance the performance than ALL the rigs must change!! eg You may, up the tyre size from 35 to 40, could everyone afford a new set of 40 inch Mtr's??? (just using that as an example).

Like i said at the start I can see YOUR views and this is only MY FEELINGS!

I think POS is absolutely right, I mean nobody wants to see the came thing over and over again........coz it will be boring as sh1t. I can also hear just from this thread that there are lots of people that are interested, but why would you and to spend 15k if you can't drive it on road and have to trailer it everywere ?

Just my thoughts

Adam

MY45 wrote:

POS wrote:Sam,

What i am about to say is MY OPINION only and doesn't count for shit, so please do not take any offence to it!

For me i could not sit there and watch 30 identical rigs driving the same course. For me that would become quite boring. (maybe the first couple of times it would interest me).

I know people say that it gets everyone on a level playing field but for me personally i love to see the Nobody in a shitbox mess it up with the big guns and i love to see the BIG GUNS in their BIG rigs that can't drive a greasy stick up a monkeys arse get shown up by a near stock suzuki(thats where the excitment is for ME).

Also what is going to happen when there are heaps of these rigs out there and everyone is driving to the maximum potential of the Rig, the Rigs cannot be inhanced so the Difficulty of the terrain may get to a certain point and stop! By resticting the modifications it may also restrict the advancement in the terrain that is been driven!

If your were to then change anything on the rig to enhance the performance than ALL the rigs must change!! eg You may, up the tyre size from 35 to 40, could everyone afford a new set of 40 inch Mtr's??? (just using that as an example).

Like i said at the start I can see YOUR views and this is only MY FEELINGS!

I think POS is absolutely right, I mean nobody wants to see the came thing over and over again........coz it will be boring as sh1t. I can also hear just from this thread that there are lots of people that are interested, but why would you and to spend 15k if you can't drive it on road and have to trailer it everywere ?

Just my thoughts

Adam

How many people do you think with outlaw trucks drive there rigs to the comps and or drive them around on the road. This class is beeing setup for a low cost comp rig.
How many other forms of motor sports have one make series and are quite successful.
Another thing is that the $15000 is for us to build one for a customer so if you assemble it yourself it would work out cheaper again.
SAM

True not many Outlaws would be driven to their events but people want to watch the big guns just like people watch the big V8's. But how many people go out to watch the average go-kart other than the competitors and their familys............Also don't get me wrong i like the idea, but wouldn't see myself going to watch a whole heep of suzuki/hilux tube buggies do the same course. (just read wooders post)........I also think that you need to keep more of a mixture of cars with fairly strict resrictions, to keep it a good sepectator sport as well.

Wooders wrote:I sorta agree with POS & Ruff, but conversly I sorta sudder when I think of the cost of getting into the comp scene as it is now.....
My preference would be for tighter restrictions on the amount of modifications that can be done and the tyres size - but still retain the mixture of "breed"......I'm not likely to cheer a yota or datto up a hill (although I might the driver).....whereas I would cheer a heep up a hill....

Anyways I'd like to see a "beater" class....Ie minimal mods and expense, maximum tyre size of even say 33, road rego optional.......Junk which can be truely flogged

Wooders, you must be slipping I thought you jeep guys didn't like to mix with the rest of us , most Jeep clubs are for jeep only even the comps you guys run are Heep only.

TSL wrote:Wooders, you must be slipping I thought you jeep guys didn't like to mix with the rest of us , most Jeep clubs are for jeep only even the comps you guys run are Heep only.

LOL mate make no mistake I'm a JeepNutter through&through...but I'm also a 4x4Nutter through&through too....
True many clubs are Jeep only (but ther are other clubs that also are brand specific)...
As for the "comps" well we have a few Jeep specific events - but not really comps - When it comes to the comps we'll step in just like the others to Woodpecker, Nissan Trails etc.....

Wooders wrote:

TSL wrote:Wooders, you must be slipping I thought you jeep guys didn't like to mix with the rest of us , most Jeep clubs are for jeep only even the comps you guys run are Heep only.

LOL mate make no mistake I'm a JeepNutter through&through...but I'm also a 4x4Nutter through&through too....
True many clubs are Jeep only (but ther are other clubs that also are brand specific)...
As for the "comps" well we have a few Jeep specific events - but not really comps - When it comes to the comps we'll step in just like the others to Woodpecker, Nissan Trails etc.....

Oh which team got 3rd outright at Woodpecker mmmmmhhh

I am sure the other makes would not really be that interested in the Jeep only events as they are more about the Jeep community than hardcore 4x4 , It a Jeep ...... oh crap I hate that saying but anyway you see Jeep guys at all the other comps and there seems to be a number of non Jeep guys seeing the light and building Jeeps for comp work of late

I was only joking guys, It maybe time for the guys that want to run the buggys to start a few XRCC type events (unregistered) in Sydney.

i recon it would kinda be like the HQ racing class, wouldnt be too bad. be interesting to see who is actually the best driver/navvy in aus. what sorta prizes would there be? and as long as there is grid girls anyone will watch it.

*This may be a biased view as I am an Overkill customer and a friend of SAM*

I like the idea. If you took your time sourcing bits, the DIY'er could be up and running for about 3-4ooo on top of the chassis price. Most of your cost in tyres/gearing. I dunno what price range the chassis will be in but that is BUDGET motorsport

From my point of view, I don't give a f*ck how many spectators want to watch. As with the go kart analogy, thousands enjoy it no matter how many watch and all in near identical machines......

In all essence this is a sport, and as in any type of sport you do it because you like to do it, not because you give a s*#t how many people are watching you. I think sam is just working on a way to get people who can`t spend thousands of dollars on a decent fourby and turn it into a beater into the sport and have a bit of fun. This is the first good suggestion i`ve heard of , good to see someone down here in sydney has their thinking cap on.

Don't get me wrong here i'm not trying to say don't do it coz it sounds cool for the competitors !! But who will sponser it if there isn't many spectators, then who pays for prises?

For 3-5000 i'd probably try and make one myself. You've got to look at the negitaves in going into something like this or it may fall through. Thats why i was havin a bit of a go at it. But i do still say that just one buggy for every competitor will be boring.

The idea is a great one but as people have been saying they all want to watch their favorite 4x4 brand. The thought of watching a standardised class is fantastic but keep it to a basic tube frame capable of havine any standard 4x4 drive train fitted . NO mixing of components, No fabricated parts that aren't available off the shelf etc

Just my thoughts
Andy

Don't get me wrong I appreciate everyone's views that is why I put it up here for discussion but I think a lot of people are losing sight of what I am aiming to do.
The idea of the classs is that with the use of one chassis make and driveline setup then the field will be extremely close and withe the specs they will run they will be very reliable. It will still alow a lot of fine tuning to the buggies to get the most out of them.It will also teach driver and navigator all about team work. I am aiming to have 80-90 percent of the field to drive every course and it will come down to teamwork to decide the winner.
I want people to use this class as a stepping stone into the open class. All the top V8 drivers all started in lesser classes like carting.

As far as sponsors and prizes go I am trying to get tv coverage for the series which would get the sponsors more coverage and hopefully more prize money.

We are looking into different venue,s as well to run rounds which will have hand made courses.And are closer to everyone.

I have put a lot of thought into it and there is still Shiat loads of work left to do to makle it work but I am prepaired to put the work in if it is going to benafit the sport.

As I have posted previously we will be making a prototype buggy hopefully 2 for people to look at and drive at an open day and even the media will be welcome to take one for a spin. Then we will take it from there.
SAM

i can just imagine it now, 20 T-model Fords goin at it...

383FJ45 wrote:i can just imagine it now, 20 T-model Fords goin at it...

My secret is out. Good one

overkill wrote:Don't get me wrong I appreciate everyone's views that is why I put it up here for discussion but I think a lot of people are losing sight of what I am aiming to do.
The idea of the classs is that with the use of one chassis make and driveline setup then the field will be extremely close and withe the specs they will run they will be very reliable. It will still alow a lot of fine tuning to the buggies to get the most out of them.It will also teach driver and navigator all about team work. I am aiming to have 80-90 percent of the field to drive every course and it will come down to teamwork to decide the winner.
I want people to use this class as a stepping stone into the open class. All the top V8 drivers all started in lesser classes like carting.

As far as sponsors and prizes go I am trying to get tv coverage for the series which would get the sponsors more coverage and hopefully more prize money.

We are looking into different venue,s as well to run rounds which will have hand made courses.And are closer to everyone.

I have put a lot of thought into it and there is still Shiat loads of work left to do to makle it work but I am prepaired to put the work in if it is going to benafit the sport.

As I have posted previously we will be making a prototype buggy hopefully 2 for people to look at and drive at an open day and even the media will be welcome to take one for a spin. Then we will take it from there.
SAM

SAM.

By all meens DO NOT HOLD BACK, there is a lot of support for this!!!

It wasn't until i aired my thought that others started doing the same, its good to see what the other side is thinking.

uphiir wrote:*This may be a biased view as I am an Overkill customer and a friend of SAM*

I like the idea. If you took your time sourcing bits, the DIY'er could be up and running for about 3-4ooo on top of the chassis price. Most of your cost in tyres/gearing. I dunno what price range the chassis will be in but that is BUDGET motorsport

From my point of view, I don't give a f*ck how many spectators want to watch. As with the go kart analogy, thousands enjoy it no matter how many watch and all in near identical machines......

SAM is talking about a COMP!!! (not weekend driving for enjoyment in front of ya mates)

A COMP will NEVER succeed if there are NO COMPETITORS and more importantly NO SPECTATORS!!!!

As for your Go-kart analagy.

Go-karts and Speedway all look the same and are built to tight restrictions. THAT IS WHERE THE SIMALARITY STOPS!!!!

A night at the speedway (6 hours) you would see at least 30 races, the races have about 10 cars in each and they are flat out with tyres spinning, wheels in the air and heaps of rollovers, each race is all over in a matter of minutes.

With Rock Crawling there is one RIG on the COURSE at one time, so sitting there all day watching the same rig run the same course one after the other, after an other, after an other would have the crowds walking the other way!!!

If no one is there to watch, you might aswell go out wheeling with ya mates!

so you recon add some falling bolders and crocodiles?
i see where your comin from, but i think the reason they have 10 cars on the track at once is because all they do is drive around in a circle, imagine 1 car driving around in a circle. at least we have obsticles to manouver, thats where the excitment comes from, wheather the next car rolls it tryin to go over a big rock or hydros it through a creek crossing.
monster trucks only go 1 at a time and they get the crowd into it.

383FJ45 wrote:so you recon add some falling bolders and crocodiles?
i see where your comin from, but i think the reason they have 10 cars on the track at once is because all they do is drive around in a circle, imagine 1 car driving around in a circle. at least we have obsticles to manouver, thats where the excitment comes from, wheather the next car rolls it tryin to go over a big rock or hydros it through a creek crossing.
monster trucks only go 1 at a time and they get the crowd into it.

Yes but they have nitros, Huge amounts of H/Power and squash little cars!