Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Would running a low pinion salisbury in the front starve the outer pinion bearing of oil due to constantly running in the opposite direction it was designed for?

I read that running a high pinion D60 in the rear you have this trouble, apart from rockcrushers who design their casings specially.


Andy

1tonsoup wrote:Okay, I know as much about this as I do about the space shuttle, but surely it doesn't make any difference if it's high or low pinion so long as all other factors are the same. In other words, as long as you are running on the same side of the gear teeth, you should have the same strength. The exception being reverse cut gears - sure you have all the strength in the world when bouncing up hills going forward, but get stuck with your front end in a ditch and you'll always going to break the front R&P. Educate me! Are the Toy hi-pinion fronts reverse cut or something?

A normal low pinion diff is running on the coast side of the teeth in a front application, a high pinion on the drive side (same as reverse cut low pinion).
Rovers are spiral bevel, so no high and low pinion, just normal and reverse cut. A high pinion diff makes more sense in the front than a low pinion with reverse cut gears.

andrew e wrote:Would running a low pinion salisbury in the front starve the outer pinion bearing of oil due to constantly running in the opposite direction it was designed for?

Can't see it being a problem - as mentioned there were plenty of factory low pinion front salisburies (just not in OZ unfortunately). They hold plenty of oil too.

ISUZUROVER You said converting a sals diff to a front with either 60/80 or gu/gq axels. I gather you mean adapting the whole swivel CV and axel?
If so do you need to get custom axels made or can the 60/80 GU/GQ ones be resplined to suit the centre? I have been talking about these options with a mate who needs a better front diff for his county and we concidered using the old front diff swivel assembly but on the salisbury diff. I think using the 60/80 is a better option so you can go longfield CVs. His concern with this is having a diffrent stud pattern to the rear. Any thought on how to change the rear to a 6 stud? Cheers Jamie

Hi nottie,

I think Isuzurover was talking about something like this - whole box and dice:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... 1d616b2930

Someone was selling GQ or GU complete F&R diffs/axles, whatever you want to call them, adapted to a RRC in the drivetrain components for sale section a couple of months ago.

cheers, DL

Correct if wrong but i thought he was talking about adapting the ENDS (swivel knuckle and crap) to the salsbury centre

Hi again,

Some more:

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... 1d616b2930

You would end up with Nissan brakes (gotta be a plus) and Nissan stud pattern. Can be done.

DL

There is a set of 4.6 Gq diffs i know of at a good price. So im thinking use the ends and then sell the C&P at a price.
I know anything can be done but i am just thinking what has to be done to a 60/*80 or gu/gq axel to fit the salsbury centre. or does custom axels have to be made?
And how hard is it to properly change the rear to a 6 stud?

Hi,

Check these 15 year olds out. Full Nissan front and rear. Also gets into the advantages of Nissan brakes and single line/ dual line arrangement which is of interest to me ATM. Again........whole box and dice. Nissan centres are very strong by all accounts.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... 1d616b2930

cheers, DL

nottie wrote:Correct if wrong but i thought he was talking about adapting the ENDS (swivel knuckle and crap) to the salsbury centre

I think the whole axle. I would have thought that LC60, Nissan, D60 and Salisbury centres would all be overcapable.

I don't think you can beat it when you consider bang for your buck. I've done LC60 axles into a series including full brakes and steering and it was a no brainer. The outright strength that I'll get from them with Longfields (under a 3.5V8) will be academic, like it would also be with Patrol, D60 or Salisbury axles.

nottie wrote:ISUZUROVER You said converting a sals diff to a front with either 60/80 or gu/gq axels. I gather you mean adapting the whole swivel CV and axel?
If so do you need to get custom axels made or can the 60/80 GU/GQ ones be resplined to suit the centre? I have been talking about these options with a mate who needs a better front diff for his county and we concidered using the old front diff swivel assembly but on the salisbury diff. I think using the 60/80 is a better option so you can go longfield CVs. His concern with this is having a diffrent stud pattern to the rear. Any thought on how to change the rear to a 6 stud? Cheers Jamie

I'd reccomend using mk swivels, and steering arms, with gq cvs, that way the steering link is infront of the diff and you dont have a low pinion diff in the way. However, that leaves the panhard rod in an awkward spot i think. Ah bugger it, just build it, it will all work out with a few hours and a few beers in the shed.

Andy

nottie wrote:ISUZUROVER You said converting a sals diff to a front with either 60/80 or gu/gq axels. I gather you mean adapting the whole swivel CV and axel?
If so do you need to get custom axels made or can the 60/80 GU/GQ ones be resplined to suit the centre? I have been talking about these options with a mate who needs a better front diff for his county and we concidered using the old front diff swivel assembly but on the salisbury diff. I think using the 60/80 is a better option so you can go longfield CVs. His concern with this is having a diffrent stud pattern to the rear. Any thought on how to change the rear to a 6 stud? Cheers Jamie

I think this has been answered. What I meant, was that the easiest (serious) upgrade is simply to slot in a whole nissan or 80 series front. The sals is more involved as you need to do quite a bit of machining and welding. You can fit whatever bolt-on swivels and outers you want though. You would need custom inners though, unless you want to stick with the tiny sals 1.24" axles, rather than upgrade to 1.3" or 1.5".

Ok guys Ive got a plan as to what we are going to do but i need to know what the inner side guys spline count is on the series salsibury 4.7 diffs?
Anybody know? Ive been told they are 10 spline also 27 spline and even 24 spline So until i get the 4 diffs we have to pick up it would be good to know.

Hi nottie,

I think the message is PUT THE WHOLE NISSAN OR LC THING IN, like the NZ 15 year olds did. F&R

Gonna be insanely expensive to get strong custom axles etc made when all you have to do is adapt spring mounts and brake system, going the whole hog.

(and end up with better brakes and more rim options)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

Salisbury Cathedral might be some some sort of religious icon but I don't think a salisbury diff centres is.

DL

I would have to agree.

Why phuck around doing custom axel tubes/axels/brakes etc when you can bolt up a GU front and 80 series rear and have better ground clearance and more rim choice. Add to that the availability of spares fairly cheap.

Hi,

Would only bother putting GU swivels in a front Salis if I could go 35 spline.
I am not really familiar with Nissan stuff, so what is the biggest Cromoly CV or UJ you can fit inside a GU swivel? Would a 35spl Longfield CV or UJ fit inside of it?

Isn't a Longfield stronger than a GU CV?

Slunnie wrote:Isn't a Longfield stronger than a GU CV?

In Portugal, GU (GR Y61) cvs are way stronger (and bigger) than GQ (GR Y60). However, they still brake on 36s 37s on 3.0 Nissan Diesel Engines (competition trucks). The 30 spline longfields in the rover front salis held 38,5X15X15 Boggers in a 5 day Rainforest type competition, with a lot of serious abuse.

Would bet on the longfields for sure.

Guess ill find out once i strip all the diffs
And yes my idea was to use 80 series knuckles as so i can use the longfield CVs So really ill have the stud choice as well as decent brakes. GUs yeah are strong but no where in the league of longs (in my opinion). Yes it will have custom axels. And really why do what everyone else has done allready? I am just keen to see if i can actually do the whole thing and see if it works. Its just a social wheeler anyway so who cares.
As far as my mates truck we have come up with another idea for now anyway.
Cheers

nottie wrote:Guess ill find out once i strip all the diffs
And yes my idea was to use 80 series knuckles as so i can use the longfield CVs So really ill have the stud choice as well as decent brakes. GUs yeah are strong but no where in the league of longs (in my opinion). Yes it will have custom axels. And really why do what everyone else has done allready? I am just keen to see if i can actually do the whole thing and see if it works. Its just a social wheeler anyway so who cares.
As far as my mates truck we have come up with another idea for now anyway.
Cheers

Why bother with 80 series Knuckles? The small 30 spline longfield that fits in Rover swivels is already stronger than a 4340 30 spline inneraxle, so I don´t see the point on going with the 80 series Long CV, considering you can´t go bigger than a 30 spline shaft with these also. Your weakest link is the same in both setups.

Is there any Toy or Nissan Knuckle capable of housing a 35 spline setup?

The Rover Long is 27 spline.

Slunnie wrote:The Rover Long is 27 spline.

With a Salis center, you can go 30 spline all the way. I did this with a Dana60 30 spline locker in the Salis and custom axles, drive flanges and spindles (although others have done it with machined rover spindles). Standard Defender90 knuckles. My point is, your axle is as strong as its weakest link, and although you get stronger CVs with 80 series knuckles, you still have the same 30 spline inneraxle.

nottie wrote: inner side guys spline count is on the series salsibury 4.7 diffs?.

Both series and coiller are 24-spline at the diff end.

Cheers for that Ben

ISUZUROVER wrote:

nottie wrote: inner side guys spline count is on the series salsibury 4.7 diffs?.

Both series and coiller are 24-spline at the diff end.

Is this spline the same as the std rover 24 spline set up in the later d1 and so on ....

Also would the width of a sals from between the side gears in the diff be the same as in a 24 spline rover center or call it the gap between the axle ends inside the center if these are the the same i cant see it being to hard to fit flanges to a sals housing and run std rover balls and the new longfeild cv/axle set up for rover .....

I'm curious, how do you fit the steering arm behind the diff and not be in the way of the low pinion?

lokka wrote:
Is this spline the same as the std rover 24 spline set up in the later d1 and so on ....

Also would the width of a sals from between the side gears in the diff be the same as in a 24 spline rover center or call it the gap between the axle ends inside the center if these are the the same i cant see it being to hard to fit flanges to a sals housing and run std rover balls and the new longfeild cv/axle set up for rover .....

Yes, the splines are the same.

No, the diff widths are not. You would need custom shafts.

andrew e wrote:I'm curious, how do you fit the steering arm behind the diff and not be in the way of the low pinion?

The factory steering arm has a "u" bent in the middle. Not ideal. When I do mine I will run the track rod in front a-la series.

red90 wrote:
Yes, the splines are the same.

No, the diff widths are not. You would need custom shafts.

Root diameter and pressure angle are the same, but according to Mal Story the tolerances between Sals and Rover 24 spline side gears are quite different. They make all their (rover) side gears with sals tolerances.

I remember someone saying once that they used SIII Sals shafts in a S1 housing (with 24-spline centre). They needed to make custom drive flanges of course.