Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Castor bushes and Rovers dont belong in the same sentence..For whatever reason they just dont last
I think i got 6 months out of my one and only set!

DK wrote:Castor bushes and Rovers dont belong in the same sentence..For whatever reason they just dont last
I think i got 6 months out of my one and only set!

I have heard sooooo many things about Rovers, it's hard to know whats fair dinkum and what isn't. I will let Simon at Tough Dog decide what to do. It's all a part of the R&D process I guess.
Thanks for the input though, please keep it coming.

Rick.

Best bushes i have found so far are Haultech's Holey Bushes had mine for 2 years now and still going strong and u get the benifit of better wheel travel up front.

I don't mean to be rude, but your not learning anything new

Castor bushes are already available and SUCK, good for little lifts, but you'll have lost more than 2 degrees, you only need to do the math

You'll need to shim the rear trailing arm bushes, or crank them arms to, space the a frame ball joint.......all been done

x 2 on what he said^^^^.
What rate are the coils (pounds)?
Oh and search is your friend, it all been done before and will save some mucking around.

Hay Rick is your ramp up for rent

I want to test the D2 for the four inch lift once my shocks arrive from the states and all is installed im just waiting for the shocks

cloughy wrote:I don't mean to be rude, but your not learning anything new

Castor bushes are already available and SUCK, good for little lifts, but you'll have lost more than 2 degrees, you only need to do the math

You'll need to shim the rear trailing arm bushes, or crank them arms to, space the a frame ball joint.......all been done

Maybe all been done, but not by us. I think you mean YOUR not learning anything new. But I appreciate all of the input, really I do. I will continue to go down the path of development that we feel is necessary, and change things as needed. Im sure we will end up at the solutions you have provided, but I would just like to see the results of all of the possible solutions rather than just jump ahead. I'm sure that you, like me, dont beleive everything you read on a forum.
The ramp out the front is always available when we are here, come on down and knock yourself out!

I hear yeah rick

alot off crap does get flinged around from time to time

thanks for invatation to the ramp I'll drop in and see yeah when all is done

Hi BBM,

I put up with slightly negative caster for years. (the shopping trolley effect)

There is info in the FAQ section about degrees/inches of lift.

Have a mild lift of about 2". Rotated swivels and never looked back. Even welded up what was left of the old holes. Would be easy to set up to do this in a machine shop.

DL

ROVERNIT wrote:I hear yeah rick

alot off crap does get flinged around from time to time

thanks for invatation to the ramp I'll drop in and see yeah when all is done

Yep, those who learn everything in 2 months of internet forums and websites and then procede to sprook off giving others advice are usually the worst for it

BBM Rick wrote:

cloughy wrote:I don't mean to be rude, but your not learning anything new

Castor bushes are already available and SUCK, good for little lifts, but you'll have lost more than 2 degrees, you only need to do the math

You'll need to shim the rear trailing arm bushes, or crank them arms to, space the a frame ball joint.......all been done

Maybe all been done, but not by us. I think you mean YOUR not learning anything new. But I appreciate all of the input, really I do. I will continue to go down the path of development that we feel is necessary, and change things as needed. Im sure we will end up at the solutions you have provided, but I would just like to see the results of all of the possible solutions rather than just jump ahead. I'm sure that you, like me, dont beleive everything you read on a forum.
The ramp out the front is always available when we are here, come on down and knock yourself out!

Furry muff, keep us updated anyhow

cloughy wrote:

ROVERNIT wrote:I hear yeah rick

alot off crap does get flinged around from time to time

thanks for invatation to the ramp I'll drop in and see yeah when all is done

Yep, those who learn everything in 2 months of internet forums and websites and then procede to sprook off giving others advice are usually the worst for it

hay hay hay I didnt mean nothing in your direction nor have given advice just recieved crap that all and get it right its 3 months

the castor correction bushes that have been available in the past have robbed articulation.

this may be because they are too hard or because of there geomertry. i'm not sure.
they also don't do enough 'correcting' over 2 inches.

rotating the swivels may not be common on other makes but how many other makes have them bolted and not welded???

cheers, serg

On Pirate they use all manner of diffs, and if the swivels aren't bolted on they generally cut them off with a big pipe cutter, rotate and re-weld.

Not good for the pipe cutter apparently.

cheers, DL

When I ever get around to it I've got some Toys here to do it on. Apparently a fine cutting disc is also the go. The sparks apparently change colour between the axle housing and the end thats fitted in.

i was making a statement not a question. as far as bolt on kits go you could supply exchange swivels that have been machined(slotted).

my point was that this isn't available on other makes as they are welded.

like 6,7 and 8 inch lifts for patrols, works for them but not on a rangie and not needed on a def/110.

so as we know rovers are slightly different to other makes. so a slightly different approach has been taken.

i would like to see what solutions bbm comes up with, always good to have another option, and the next big improvement could come from them.


cheers, serg

Slunnie wrote:When I ever get around to it I've got some Toys here to do it on. Apparently a fine cutting disc is also the go. The sparks apparently change colour between the axle housing and the end thats fitted in.

Well i'd assume the swivels were hardned before being welded into the housing, hence the difference you'll notice when cutting

uninformed wrote:the castor correction bushes that have been available in the past have robbed articulation.

this may be because they are too hard or because of there geomertry. i'm not sure.
they also don't do enough 'correcting' over 2 inches.

rotating the swivels may not be common on other makes but how many other makes have them bolted and not welded???

cheers, serg

The big problem with castor bushes is they flog out quickly due to not having much meat one one side (well top or bottom), not the limiting artic.

cloughy wrote:

Slunnie wrote:When I ever get around to it I've got some Toys here to do it on. Apparently a fine cutting disc is also the go. The sparks apparently change colour between the axle housing and the end thats fitted in.

Well i'd assume the swivels were hardned before being welded into the housing, hence the difference you'll notice when cutting

Probably the material is different to change the spark colour. I'd assume the localised hot spot of the grinder and the welding process will undo any hardening.

uninformed wrote:like 6,7 and 8 inch lifts for patrols, works for them but not on a rangie and not needed on a def/110.

so as we know rovers are slightly different to other makes. so a slightly different approach has been taken.

i would like to see what solutions bbm comes up with, always good to have another option, and the next big improvement could come from them.


cheers, serg

Speaking of lifted Patrols. I understand they use castor correcting plates to rotate the whole diff housing. Has this method been used on the Rangies etc in the same manner?

Problem with caster correction plates (or bushes) with a serious lift would be the increased angle on the lower UJ on the front propshaft caused by rotating the whole diff.

Please correct me if wrong.

You don't get this prob with rotated swivels.

cheers, DL

Slunnie wrote:When I ever get around to it I've got some Toys here to do it on. Apparently a fine cutting disc is also the go. The sparks apparently change colour between the axle housing and the end thats fitted in.

when i rotated the swivels on my gq diffs i used a thick cutting disc and an oxy and had no, problems talked to the local driveline bloke and he showed us how to do it
and bbm rick as for springs 80 series fronts fit rover mounts i am currently running a set in my disco

Brakelines are being fitted today, so the next step will be the A-Frame ball joint. It looks to be near it's limit at rest, so a solution is in order.
Here are a few ideas that have been used in the past.



The QT Services joint that is a complete replacement.








A simple fabbed spacer with misalignment corrected. Here it is bolted in.








And here it is on the bench to give a better veiw.





Im liking the simplicity of the basic black extension, but the coolness of the QT design is pretty attractive as well. Any thoughts on how its lack of rubber bushing will affect on road ride?

Theres no rubber in the top ball joint from standard?

There is nothing more annoying than a clicky Rose joint. I also have huge concerns about putting sideways loads on screw threads such as on that QT setup. The root of the thread is just one mumma stress raiser and I'd never use it like that on my car. IMHO, the rose joints are good for compression/tension forces, not up/down or side forces.

I tnd to agree with Slunnie re the thread being a weakness in accepting bending loads.

Have seen this on agricultural equipment all the time, using the same set up on the top 3PL link, where failure always happens just where the thread starts behind the Heim joint. Heims also wear fast and rattles will develop. Wonder why they don't fit seals to the QT Unit?

my 2 cents worth.

First Rick congrats on getting a rangie and developing a 4" lift kit to sell in the future, It has been need for a very long time, well overdue. 2ndly, congrats on not wanting to put a body lift in, I'm against them and would take a 4" suspension lift anyday.

PM sent....

Here are a couple of pics with the current suspension set up. Still a few things to work out, but couldnt resist getting out for a little play. Still need to sort castor and a slight vibe, then on with some 33in MTZ's and LRA flares.

GURU wrote:my 2 cents worth.

First Rick congrats on getting a rangie and developing a 4" lift kit to sell in the future, It has been need for a very long time, well overdue. 2ndly, congrats on not wanting to put a body lift in, I'm against them and would take a 4" suspension lift anyday.

PM sent....

Just a question, why do you have a beef with body lifts? Not having a crack at you, just curious that's all.

Trav

Aquarangie wrote:

GURU wrote:my 2 cents worth.

First Rick congrats on getting a rangie and developing a 4" lift kit to sell in the future, It has been need for a very long time, well overdue. 2ndly, congrats on not wanting to put a body lift in, I'm against them and would take a 4" suspension lift anyday.

PM sent....

Just a question, why do you have a beef with body lifts? Not having a crack at you, just curious that's all.

Trav

times 2...?